Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

Found this: avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout issues You might want to check it out.

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matthew900

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matthew900
Hi, I've haven't used my printer in about 6 months and tried to get it working again this week. I had upgraded to windows 10 since I last used it so I updated the Arduino softare and printrun. Now I can not get the printer to work. When I try to load the firmware with Arduino I'm getting the following error message:

avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_ReceiveMessage(): timeout
avrdude: stk500v2_getsync(): timeout communicating with programmer

I thought maybe it was an issue with the updated Arduino software but I also can not get printrun to connect to the board either. Anyone encountered this error or have any ideas? Thanks!

I got the new Arduino and I uploaded the firmware the first time with no issues. Then after that then when I made some changes to my firmware and tried to upload it again I started getting the same errors. Anyone have any idea what can be causing this? I've tried multiple computers with different operating systems. I can get printrun to connect to the printer, I just can't get the firmware to update.

I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to just throw this thing in the trash

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matthew900
I got the new Arduino and I uploaded the firmware the first time with no issues. Then after that then when I made some changes to my firmware and tried to upload it again I started getting the same errors. Anyone have any idea what can be causing this? I've tried multiple computers with different operating systems. I can get printrun to connect to the printer, I just can't get the firmware to update.

I'm so frustrated that I'm ready to just throw this thing in the trash

Hey matthew,

anything new on this? Your problem is certainly quite peculiar. Did you ever try to programm/use your Arduino board without anything attached (no RAMPS, no nothing, just the board)?
Also: Did you purchase a genuine Arduino board? I dunno where you are from, but your local electronics online store typically has genuine Arduinos with genuine FTDI chipsets (e.g. radioshack). But honestly, this shouldn't be your problem.

So what is the general consensus on this Folger Tech 2020 Kit in its newest iteration with all the cool ALU parts?

Does it remain as one of the better Kossel un-assembled pre-packaged kits that comes with (almost) everything required?

I am thinking of purchasing. Definitely want a Kossel, and this one looks reasonably priced considering shipping and base price.

Lets remove past printing and tool-handling experience from the equation- is it a good buy, or good bye?

Well, I have finally finished my FolgerTech kit and printed a couple of test items (yay). I had it built in about a week and a half of my somewhat rare spare time (had visitors from out of town all last week) and finally did some basic calibration and prints on Saturday. Still some ways to go on full calibration though, I printed a (mostly flat) Scorpion kit (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:34461) as my first test and the bed was (effectively) slanted - giving me thicker parts at one side than the other. Second test was simple 2020 end caps () which turned out fine, being small and printed in the center of the bed. So still some configuration learning curve to overcome - but it IS working

Meanwhile I've been delving into OpenSCAD by means of downloading scad file 'things' and seeing how they are created and work. I've already created my first design - end stop mounts that wrap around the 2020 and attach from the sides to make them easier to adjust for height (see pic). It's such a pain to get to the front mounted screws when the carriages are all the way at the top! Also it gives me a bit of extra height. Not printed them yet, but maybe tonight. Wish me luck! UPDATE: added clip-in barbs on one side. Thus, may only need to use one screw/t-nut... we'll see.

@Careless - I can certainly say that I've been pleased with the FolgerTech Kossel 2020 kit. Everything was there and although there are some gaps in the instructions, it all goes together in the end and works. Seems pretty rigid too. I'm not regretting my purchase. Of course the supplied flat acrylic filament spool mount is completely rubbish, but it'll work (maybe with help) until I can design/choose & print something more robust and better.




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2016 04:33PM by meq123.

Update for @Careless... I've been having intermittent Over/Under temp errors, but found they would go away for a while by wiggling the wires at the hot end. I had thought it was just a bad joint where the extension wires were soldered to the thermistor wires, but it finally stopped working altogether and after a more detailed investigation, I found the problem was at the thermistor bead itself. The metal shell had been crimped so tightly that it had cut through one of the wires causing the flaky connection.

I used the contact form last night on Folger's website and told them the problem. I just found a very nice response, apologizing for the problem and telling me there was a replacement in the mail (no charge).

Very good customer service - another reason to get their stuff!

By the way, I finished and printed the end stop mounts above (fortunately just before the thermistor fully gave way). They work well EXCEPT (doh!) you can't clip them in with the T-nuts and screws attached (DESIGN FLAW - slaps head). Still, I managed to add the T-nuts after clipping the mounts on the extrusions, by carefully sliding the T-nuts down from the back inside the channels So, proud of my first full design and print!

That's pretty good. Glad they are quick to reply and solve customer matters with some sort of compassion.

Thanks meq123... I think I mayyyy be putting in a purchase order soon.

I ordered mine last Thursday, it was shipped the next day. Fedex is taking their own sweet time with it, but it should be here tomorrow.

Just wanted to chime in that they seem to have caught up with shipping. I did get like 4 shipping notices.

I still need to finish wiring mine, so I can't comment on the finished product, but it looks like their shipping and packing has improved greatly. Mine arrived totally intact, all parts labeled and accounted for.

Just getting around to testing and calibration. The effector is moving perfectly. Only issue so far is that the hotend heats but seems to plateau around 140 degrees C (and then the power supply fan goes into high gear.) I'm pretty sure the thermistor is OK because it registers room temperature at rest. Did I get a bad hotend? Or perhaps I have a bad setting in firmware? I'm currently using the stock firmware.

Edit: I covered up the fan with a piece of blue tape and no problem hitting 230. Looks like the fan is a bit too efficient (I have it wired directly to 12v.) I'll probably print paul_delta's fan shroud once I'm all calibrated.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2016 05:54PM by sharkicicles.

After a few (OK 15-20) rounds of tuning the prints, I started getting prints that I thought were up to snuff...

So, naturally, I started printing minor upgrades; including these legs with adjustable feet: [www.thingiverse.com]

It looks like the center hole on the base lines up with the center hole of the 2020 extrusion. Has anyone here tapped the center hole of the ones that Folger ships? If so, are they M5 or M6?

Thanks!

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UncleSas
After a few (OK 15-20) rounds of tuning the prints, I started getting prints that I thought were up to snuff...

So, naturally, I started printing minor upgrades; including these legs with adjustable feet: [www.thingiverse.com]

It looks like the center hole on the base lines up with the center hole of the 2020 extrusion. Has anyone here tapped the center hole of the ones that Folger ships? If so, are they M5 or M6?

Thanks!

The center hole in the 2020 extrusion comes out to 5mm in diameter, so it is M6 if you want to tap.

Another question related to the hot end....

I've got my Folger Tech Kossel up and running, and I've made a few fairly decent prints in PLA and ABS. That said, I got my hands on some Taulman 645 filament, and I'd like to see what I can make with it. My problem is that the Folger Tech build guide, user manual, or online documentation do not state any upper limit or maximum recommended temperature for the stock hot end. The only note on temperature is on the Folger Tech Kossel 2020 product description on the website, which says the hot end runs at 230 degrees. Taulman 645 needs to be extruded between 242-248 degrees Celsius. Is 230 degrees the maximum for our Kossel? Can I run it 12-18 degrees more? Or is that not recommended? I thought I'd ask first before simply bumping up the temperature (and maybe seeing fan & induction sensor bracket melt away).



Thanks!

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Sintensity

Another question related to the hot end....

I've got my Folger Tech Kossel up and running, and I've made a few fairly decent prints in PLA and ABS. That said, I got my hands on some Taulman 645 filament, and I'd like to see what I can make with it. My problem is that the Folger Tech build guide, user manual, or online documentation do not state any upper limit or maximum recommended temperature for the stock hot end. The only note on temperature is on the Folger Tech Kossel 2020 product description on the website, which says the hot end runs at 230 degrees. Taulman 645 needs to be extruded between 242-248 degrees Celsius. Is 230 degrees the maximum for our Kossel? Can I run it 12-18 degrees more? Or is that not recommended? I thought I'd ask first before simply bumping up the temperature (and maybe seeing fan & induction sensor bracket melt away).



Thanks!

I don't think you will have any issue at those temperatures. I typically print at 235 for abs, another 10 degrees shouldn't be an issue

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Sintensity
Is 230 degrees the maximum for our Kossel? Can I run it 12-18 degrees more?
Thanks!

If it's the standard FT Hotend you should be fine up to ~265°C. It's a standard all-metal style hotend with a PTFE tube in the cold-end. That setup handles temperatures up to 265°C very well and should even go above that. At some point, the PTFE tube will start to degrade (PTFE starts to degrade at 260°C, but as it's well hidden away in the cold end, it will never reach the hotend temperatures).

As long as your extruder fan is running 100%, you are in no trouble of melting any PLA parts. The cold end will pull any heat away.

PS: Printed at 270°C once, for testing purposes on some ABS. No problems.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2016 06:07AM by docpayce.

Re: my earlier post about the hot end not heating- apparently I did too good of a job covering up the fan as the hot end decided to eat the effector. Serendipitously enough though, I was ordering some small parts from Folger and decided to get the aluminum effector to change on out at some time. Well... that time is now.

Before the new one goes on I'm going to do some more airflow tests to make sure the hotend is getting enough cool air, then put the new effector in and print out that darn fan shroud.

Make sure there is a air gap between the hot end and the cylindrical, finned "cooler". I made the mistake of butting the two pieces together and the hot end couldn't push enough heat into the tip with the cooler sucking it all away.

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sharkicicles
Re: my earlier post about the hot end not heating- apparently I did too good of a job covering up the fan as the hot end decided to eat the effector. Serendipitously enough though, I was ordering some small parts from Folger and decided to get the aluminum effector to change on out at some time. Well... that time is now.

Before the new one goes on I'm going to do some more airflow tests to make sure the hotend is getting enough cool air, then put the new effector in and print out that darn fan shroud.

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Legrand
Make sure there is a air gap between the hot end and the cylindrical, finned "cooler". I made the mistake of butting the two pieces together and the hot end couldn't push enough heat into the tip with the cooler sucking it all away.

Legrand,

Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely look carefully at it when i reassemble the effector.

Ok, pulled apart the effector and checked the hot end- it was indeed against the finned heat sink. But when I unscrew it a bit to make a gap, the heater block spins freely on its screw mount. Is this normal?

That is not normal. When the center screw is fully screwed into the finned heat sink, and the brass nozzle tip is fully seated as well, there should be a gap between the square heater and the finned heatsink of around 1/16"-1/8". The square block heater should not spin.

If the center hollow screw is not fully screwed in then you run the risk of the filament, once softened when printing, binding up in the gap that will exist inside the finned heatsink.

Thanks, Legrand. I'll have to fiddle with it a bit and see what I'm doing wrong (or if it's just a manufacturing error).

Sure enough, there was a small gap between the nozzle and block. Disassembling and reassembling the hotend did the trick. Can't thank you enough for realizing that was the issue!

You're welcome. I made the same mistake at one point unfortunately. Live and learn.

Here is another tool to auto-calibrate Delta with Repetier firmware:
[forum.seemecnc.com]

Please share your experience.

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My [www.thingiverse.com] stuff, my configuration of Repetier 0.92.6: [forums.reprap.org] (use Arduino 1.6.5 to compile)

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paul_delta
Here is another tool to auto-calibrate Delta with Repetier firmware:
[forum.seemecnc.com]

Please share your experience.

I downloaded this tool and I can't get it to work. I set the probe type to "Z-Probe", connect to my printer, open the advanced tab, load in my EEPROM settings, make sure that I change the Plate diameter is correct, but all it does when I hit the "Check Heights" button is come crashing into the bed. Not sure what the issue is. Any ideas?

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

So got everything up and running. Trying to figure out the best way to adjust XY on the Delta. The 20mm cube is coming out 20.40 on the x and 20.30on the y. Z is dead on at 20. I looked around found several idea some of them saying they are out of date.

So what is the best way to adjust XY for this printer?

@cwnannwn:
I am using following method:
1. Calibrate the delta radius (manually or using dc42's calculator)
2. Print a hollow cube and measure inner & outer dimensions. If you only use the outer dimension of a cube you will mix in other factors as well (flow rate / over- / underfill).
3. Calculate: (Inner_measured+Outer_measured) / (Inner_target+Outer_target)
4. Multiply that value with your EEPROM rod length setting -> the result is your new rod length setting. For clarification: If you print to small, reduce the rod length *linearly* with the scale.
5. Recalibrate the delta radius right away (it will be off by approximately the same scale you changed the rod length).

Using that way, I hit spot on in one turn most of the time. If your X and Y scalings are differing much, you got some hardware-related issues (tower positions not ideal).

@paul:
I tried to get the software running, but got no luck: I can install and start the software and connect to my printer. But I cannot do anything else without the software crashing (no G-Code sending, no calibration, no EEPROM, no nothing). I am on a Win10 machine with german localisation - but I also tried to switch to US localisation without any luck. Did you have any luck?

Docpayce thank you. I tightened up all the nuts and re measured everything. Now getting 20mm prints +/-.01mm.

It does take time but Folger tech makes a good printer. Wondering if the 5t is going to be this good.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2016 03:15PM by cwnannwn.

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docpayce
@paul:
I tried to get the software running, but got no luck: I can install and start the software and connect to my printer. But I cannot do anything else without the software crashing (no G-Code sending, no calibration, no EEPROM, no nothing). I am on a Win10 machine with german localisation - but I also tried to switch to US localisation without any luck. Did you have any luck?

I'm on Windows 10 too, and it freezes up on me a lot too, but I usually can manage to send some gcode, or load the EEPROM settings into the advanced tab. It's when I hit "Check Heights" that I need help. It likes to keep going down until it drags on the build platform. I'm not sure why it does that though.

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Owner of a QUBD Two Up
And
Folger Kossel 2020
And
Tevo Tarantula

Thank you for the insights, very informative! I used to have everything done by the special guys - my laziness syndrome is on the game, you know So all the printing issues are easily solved with the help of such guys from Poster Printing and I enjoy the final result without any efforts! Good luck!

Apologies if this has been asked before- I've been searching for a while and didn't see anything.

I finally got everything dialed in calibration-wise, or so I thought. When I go to print a 20mm cube, the nozzle carves a nice square in the blue painter's tape. The G29 probing seems normal. When I do a G1 X0 Y0 Z0 the nozzle is also close enough to scrape if i then do a G1 move on X or Y. Checking the bed with a level seems to look alright. I tried setting the Z_PROBE_OFFSET z value higher, from -.4 to -.6 with no difference in operation. EEPROM is disabled. Kind of at a loss on what to change next in software.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2016 11:28AM by sharkicicles.

Just for the heck of it I changed the z offset to zero and hit print. Not bad for a first print. It's about .4mm undersized in X and about .3 under in Y.