Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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jculver09

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Koenig
What I gather from this thread is that the extruder included in this kit is no good so I'm thinking of getting an "all metal" extruder, like this: [www.ebay.com]

Would that be a good choice or does anyone have a better recommendation?

As far as the extruder, I am still using the original hotend, only issue I have is that changing filament is a PITA because internally things dont line up well enough to use the extruder stepper to reverse old out and push new in. I have been eyeing the E3D V6 but cost for me is the prohibiting factor so the lite6 has also been on my mind. I am not 100% convinced the hotend in our kits is a major issue if you are just using PLA (as I am) and I am not sure how much of an upgrade the lite6 would be since it has a PTFE liner as well.

The cold end on the other hand was ok to get me started, but did not last more than 3kg of filament through it. I picked up an ez-struder from here: [seemecnc.com] I have put 2kg through it so far and I am very happy with it. The install was a piece of cake, just make sure if you order one you get the push connect fitting too as it does not come with the ez-struder unit.

I was actually only referring to the cold end, I suppose I was a little unclear about that

I have changed the tube that holds the PTFE-liner to a "all metal" one, there was a tip about it earlier in this thread. Otherwise I have have not heard anything bad about this hotend, but the cold end of this extruder....

I think I'm gonna go with the one I linked to, looks like it is not going to to hard to change filament with that one, if no one has a better suggestion?

Thanks! Changing that setting worked.

There where so many complaints about the extruder it came with that I bought a Bulldog XL when I ordered the aluminum corners. Now all I need to do is figure out how to calibrate it.

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Koenig
I finally got some life into my kit!

Everything works but calibrations left to do.

I'm thinking of getting the Duet as well so I'm curious how it goes for you thevisad.

I will let you know when i get it in and stable on the unit.

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Koenig
What I gather from this thread is that the extruder included in this kit is no good so I'm thinking of getting an "all metal" extruder, like this: [www.ebay.com]

Would that be a good choice or does anyone have a better recommendation?

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matthew900
Well we finally got everything together, uploaded the 20 tooth firmware with the Arduino program, but we're getting an error in Pronterface. We get a bunch of random symbols when we try to connect. I've attached a screen print of what's happening. Does anyone have an idea what could cause this or have suggestions for what to try? I'm using the USB cable it came with and I've tried every USB port on my computer, and re-uploading the firmware a number of times. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I think you need to change the speed that pronterface communicates with the printer to 250k.

I am still using the one that came with the unit; although, I did have to replace the throat in it once. I am considering the Budaschnozzle or the E3D lines of extruders.

This is my first 3D printer so I am new to all the software and calibrations. I think the instructions left out some things they assumed you knew how to do, they end at the calibration of everything but the extruder. Can anyone help me out with instructions on setting up the filament and calibrating the extruder? I tried the Triffid's Calibration Guide but step 4 is “Tell the printer to feed 100mm of filament”. That’s great if you know how to tell the printer to feed filament. I’m using the Bulldog XL extruder so I know my settings are going to be way off from the standard. Thanks!

Using something like Pronterface, enter '100' in the length box, and hit the 'extrude' button . . . . Others should be similar. Considering that there are multiple printer interface packages, myself, I can't fault Folger for not documenting things they didn't write, sell, support, or ship . . .

And, unless the drive gear on your extruder is a different dimeter than what came with the kit, extruded length should not change . . .

- Ti

deleted - double post

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 03:29PM by mmcginnis9272.

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tadawson
Using something like Pronterface, enter '100' in the length box, and hit the 'extrude' button . . . . Others should be similar. Considering that there are multiple printer interface packages, myself, I can't fault Folger for not documenting things they didn't write, sell, support, or ship . . .

And, unless the drive gear on your extruder is a different dimeter than what came with the kit, extruded length should not change . . .

- Ti

There is a minimum temp that the extruder must be at before it will extrude, probably 170. Make sure you turn the extruder on and let it come to temp. Then tell Pronterface to extrude 100mm. If you don't do this first... you'll bang your head trying to determine why it wont extrude. I know... that was 6 months ago and I still have a bump.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 02:42PM by mmcginnis9272.

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mmcginnis9272

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tadawson
Using something like Pronterface, enter '100' in the length box, and hit the 'extrude' button . . . . Others should be similar. Considering that there are multiple printer interface packages, myself, I can't fault Folger for not documenting things they didn't write, sell, support, or ship . . .

And, unless the drive gear on your extruder is a different dimeter than what came with the kit, extruded length should not change . . .

- Ti

There is a minimum temp that the extruder must be at before it will extrude, probably 170. Make sure you turn the extruder on and let it come to temp. Then tell Pronterface to extrude 100mm. If you don't do this first... you'll bang your head trying to determine why it wont extrude.

Or simply comment that out in Configuration.h for the duration of calibration, setup, and testing . . . "PREVENT_COLD_EXTRUDES" or close, IIRC . . .

- Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 03:15PM by tadawson.

If they included instructions for the part they shipped I would have a starting point which is my complaint.

I tried to put in the 100mm in that box but then it started freaking out about the hot end not being heated. Is there a line command to just feed the filament or a way to bypass the hot end safety protocol?

Just noticed the hotend question was answered while I typed this. Thanks!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 02:47PM by matthew900.

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matthew900
If they included instructions for the part they shipped I would have a starting point which is my complaint.

I tried to put in the 100mm in that box but then it started freaking out about the hot end not being heated. Is there a line command to just feed the filament or a way to bypass the hot end safety protocol?

Just noticed the hotend question was answered while I typed this. Thanks!

I already gave you the workaround 1 post back . . .

And when I built mine about 45 days ago (first printer here also), I found the instructions to be quite good, with nothing missing (you did get both the build and config documents from thier Google drive, correct?). I would have liked a few other angles on the photos, but that's it. What part of the kit did you feel the documentaion overlooked?

-Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 03:19PM by tadawson.

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tadawson

Or simply comment that out in Configuration.h for the duration of calibration, setup, and testing . . . "PREVENT_COLD_EXTRUDES" or close, IIRC . . .

- Tim

The way I see it, if the extruder is not hot, you might not get an accurate measurment on the 100mm extrusion. The motor might skip and your reading will be off. My point is, don't do this adjustment without a hot extruder unless your not actually extruding, but just letting the motor move the filament down the tube.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 03:31PM by mmcginnis9272.

How do you propose to measure filament movement if you are extruding, and have no access to the unmelted filament?

If you skip steps while extruding, or the extruder slips, you have bigger problems that need to be corrected prior to calibration . . . and since a step is typically 1.8 degrees and not variable, extruding or not, the amount of filament moved should not change in either case. Myself, I pull the bowden tube off the extruder, jog or clip the filament to be flush with the end, run my test, measure what came out, retract, repeat if needed, and then reattach . . .

- Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 04:09PM by tadawson.

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tadawson
I would have liked a few other angles on the photos, but that's it. What part of the kit did you feel the documentaion overlooked?

-Tim

Everything past calibrating the axis. There's nothing on loading the filament, calibrating the extruder, calibrating the temperatures on the hot end and hot bed, loading and printing the test print, and how to make adjustments based on the test print. I know these seem like simple obvious items too an experienced 3D printer user like yourself but a little guidance or at least direction to online resources that cover these items would be helpful for a beginner like myself.

I know enough to come to the forums for research and help but someone doing this on their own without any additional information would be unable to get as far as I have. I don’t expect perfect exact instructions but I would expect instructions that get you though the construction to completing your first test prints and adjustments.

The "Triffid's Calibration Guide" says to feed the filament without the hot end. Is there a better calibration guide I should use instead?

The first 5 steps are:

1.Remove the hot-end from extruder so you don't waste filament.
2.Feed in some filament.
3.Using the extruder body as a reference point, mark the filament at 120mm.
4.Tell the printer to feed 100mm of filament.
5.Measure the distance from the extruder body to the mark you made. It will be over 20mm if it moved too little, under if it moved too far.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 04:27PM by matthew900.

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matthew900

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tadawson
I would have liked a few other angles on the photos, but that's it. What part of the kit did you feel the documentaion overlooked?

-Tim

Everything past calibrating the axis. There's nothing on loading the filament, calibrating the extruder, calibrating the temperatures on the hot end and hot bed, loading and printing the test print, and how to make adjustments based on the test print. I know these seem like simple obvious items too an experienced 3D printer user like yourself but a little guidance or at least direction to online resources that cover these items would be helpful for a beginner like myself.

I know enough to come to the forums for research and help but someone doing this on their own without any additional information would be unable to get as far as I have. I don’t expect perfect exact instructions but I would expect instructions that get you though the construction to completing your first test prints and adjustments.

Because these are beyond the scope of the document you are referring to. Also, half the questions are answered inside the firmware, if you would only take the effort to read the configuration.h file or the posts in the forum, just on the page prior [delta-calibration.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com]

[github.com]

You do not need to adjust the extruder gear normally. Find what the setting is for direct drive, set it at that and leave it alone. [github.com]

Calibrating the bed/hotend is not always needed and is an end user adjustment to make the printer behave better. [reprap.org]

Test prints are your own thing, something for you to learn how to do using the tools provided and the equipment you have. Have fun and experiment. [www.thingiverse.com]

I did not have the forums, did not the additional information and I was able to complete, build and make my prints perfectly pristine with little effort (and a little research). I am only (when it was built and still to this day) using the items that came in the kit, with some additional tweaking. Items that were replaced were the crappy direct drive extruder gearbox, the gear and the hotend throat for a duplicate one. Items added were the insulation, the hotbed platform (removed the acrylic round offsets in favor of 1/4 inch plywood.) Pending upgrades are Budaschnozzle/E3D hotend, Duet controller, magnetic effector/glides.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 05:29PM by thevisad.

I would have preferred to use the parts in the kit but some of the printed parts where so bad that they started delaminating as soon as I tightened the screws. And I’m not talking about super tight, just a little past snug. They were so bad that they had already cut away part of the first layer that had delaminated before they shipped it.

Since I had to order new corners I went ahead and ordered a new extruder as many of you on here had recommended. Other than that I used all the provided parts. Except of course all of the additional nuts and screws I had to buy since not enough where supplied with the kit.

I’m not sure where the link you provided came from but that is not the current version of the instructions that they provide on Google drive to people who purchase the kit.

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matthew900
I would have preferred to use the parts in the kit but some of the printed parts where so bad that they started delaminating as soon as I tightened the screws. And I’m not talking about super tight, just a little past snug. They were so bad that they had already cut away part of the first layer that had delaminated before they shipped it.

Since I had to order new corners I went ahead and ordered a new extruder as many of you on here had recommended. Other than that I used all the provided parts. Except of course all of the additional nuts and screws I had to buy since not enough where supplied with the kit.

I’m not sure where the link you provided came from but that is not the current version of the instructions that they provide on Google drive to people who purchase the kit.

I was one of the lucky ones that had no issues with the plastics that came with my kit. I thought about ordering the corners, but couldn't justify it due to mine being fine.

Folgertech provides some modified version of Marlin 1.0 that is really old, the links were to my repo for Marlin 1.0.3 that were adjusted to the Folgertech settings. I am having issues keeping it in sync with 1.0.3, so I have to rebuild the repo again since github can't handle the multiple merges. They were notified (multiple weeks ago) of the issues in the current firmware, the fact they are using the wrong settings and that users are experiencing increased performance with using the newer firmwares.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2015 05:23PM by thevisad.

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tadawson

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mmcginnis9272

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tadawson
Using something like Pronterface, enter '100' in the length box, and hit the 'extrude' button . . . . Others should be similar. Considering that there are multiple printer interface packages, myself, I can't fault Folger for not documenting things they didn't write, sell, support, or ship . . .

And, unless the drive gear on your extruder is a different dimeter than what came with the kit, extruded length should not change . . .

- Ti

There is a minimum temp that the extruder must be at before it will extrude, probably 170. Make sure you turn the extruder on and let it come to temp. Then tell Pronterface to extrude 100mm. If you don't do this first... you'll bang your head trying to determine why it wont extrude.

Or simply comment that out in Configuration.h for the duration of calibration, setup, and testing . . . "PREVENT_COLD_EXTRUDES" or close, IIRC . . .

- Tim

As many have said, the setting provided by Folgertech is pretty good when it comes to the filament.

If you feel like doublecheck it anyway, you don't have to comment anything out in the config.h, just send "M302" to the printer and it will let you extrude cold (bypasses the "PREVENT_COLD_EXTRUDES") and it reverts to "protected mode" when you reset/restart the printer.

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matthew900

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tadawson
I would have liked a few other angles on the photos, but that's it. What part of the kit did you feel the documentaion overlooked?

-Tim

Everything past calibrating the axis. There's nothing on loading the filament, calibrating the extruder, calibrating the temperatures on the hot end and hot bed, loading and printing the test print, and how to make adjustments based on the test print. I know these seem like simple obvious items too an experienced 3D printer user like yourself but a little guidance or at least direction to online resources that cover these items would be helpful for a beginner like myself.

I know enough to come to the forums for research and help but someone doing this on their own without any additional information would be unable to get as far as I have. I don’t expect perfect exact instructions but I would expect instructions that get you though the construction to completing your first test prints and adjustments.

As others have stated already, a lot of this stuff is done in external software, and for the hardware stuff, suitable settings for the simple stuff (like extruder calibration) are already set in the Marlin cut they ship, and don't vary unless parts change.

And I had never touched a 3d printer prior to this kit, so while I have learned a lot, I was as much a beginner as yourself when I built my kit. I just chose to read everything I could find regarding Slic3r, Pronterface, and Marlin, and it came together . . .

Get it running as shipped, play a bit, and *THEN* make changes. The extruder that ships with the kit works perfectly fine, but it (at least mine did) eats grooved bearings . . . but at $0.99 each, it's more of a pain than a huge problem. I eventually printed a new extruder with spring tension, but it wasn't needed to get running. Other than some black ABS that seems to havebeen dirty, I am about 3kg down on filament, with 2 clogs on the black, and no other . . . so I can't complain about the hot end much either.

Things that will become a pain that I have seen:

- Endstop mounts are bad - print some new ones.
- Corners deform from motor heat over time, and pulleys are on an angle. I have metal corners coming.
- Extruder eats bearings (as above)
- Shipped Marlin is Jurrasic! Fortunately, no advanced changes, so put the settings in Configuration.h into a new version,
and walk away from a lot of quirks.
- Don't even think of running a graphic controller on this Arduino . . . .

- Tim

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thevisad
Because these are beyond the scope of the document you are referring to. Also, half the questions are answered inside the firmware, if you would only take the effort to read the configuration.h file or the posts in the forum, just on the page prior [delta-calibration.s3-website-us-west-2.amazonaws.com]

[github.com]

You do not need to adjust the extruder gear normally. Find what the setting is for direct drive, set it at that and leave it alone. [github.com]

Calibrating the bed/hotend is not always needed and is an end user adjustment to make the printer behave better. [reprap.org]

Test prints are your own thing, something for you to learn how to do using the tools provided and the equipment you have. Have fun and experiment. [www.thingiverse.com]

I did not have the forums, did not the additional information and I was able to complete, build and make my prints perfectly pristine with little effort (and a little research). I am only (when it was built and still to this day) using the items that came in the kit, with some additional tweaking. Items that were replaced were the crappy direct drive extruder gearbox, the gear and the hotend throat for a duplicate one. Items added were the insulation, the hotbed platform (removed the acrylic round offsets in favor of 1/4 inch plywood.) Pending upgrades are Budaschnozzle/E3D hotend, Duet controller, magnetic effector/glides.

How do I download and use the updated firmware from the github link above? I tried copying and pasting the Configuration.h code into my firmware's Configuration.h but when I tried to upload it I got an error:

Configuration.h:4:20: fatal error: boards.h: No such file or directory
#include "boards.h"

I'm assuming I need all of the files but couldn't figure out how to download the complete firmware from that site. Thanks!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 02:24AM by matthew900.

You don't take the file over, you edit the values from the old version into the new version, by reading and comparing. As you have noted, a bunch of stuff has restructured in Marlin, and the old Configuration.h file won't just drop in.

To get the entire release, you need to be up a few levels at [github.com] You can select 'Download Zip', or, if you feel like installing git on your box, use the link given and do a git clone of the project . . . (which also lets you get incremental changes via git pull . . .)

Note also that the github link you offered is a private repo, not the main repository (which is here: [github.com] ). Not sure if you meant to be looking at that repo or not . . .

- Tim

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 06:08AM by tadawson.

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bluesmike

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bluesmike
Ok I have a weird issue that Im having a hard time figuring out. Small print jobs print fine but large print jobs the head lifts on one side of the job and stays about an inch above the bed. So lets say that the object is 180x50x20. The print job will start at y90,x-90 and start to move to y-90,x90 after the head passes y0,x0 it steadily lifts until it is about an inch off the bed at y-90,x90. I had removed the autolevel routine from the gcode before hand but have since added it back in. Im stumped!

Ok I never got this resolved. I recalibrated the printer and it will print small jobs fine. On large jobs it still lifts about 1" from the bed and thinks its printing fine. It does this with both stock firmware and TheVisads firmware. Any ideas on what to do next?

Resolved this awhile ago and forgot to post my findings up. Re-calibrated several times and found nothing out of whack. Loaded up a part for a quadcopter build that's 100X115X15 and watched the print job closely. As the slider on the X tower came down I heard a slight THUMP THUMP and saw the belt shake. The slider was hitting the bottom stop! I killed the print job and dropped the bottom stop about 1/4" and now everything is fine.

On another note, I really dislike these sliders. They are noisy and wobble slightly. Is there a more accurate quieter setup?

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bluesmike

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bluesmike

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bluesmike
Ok I have a weird issue that Im having a hard time figuring out. Small print jobs print fine but large print jobs the head lifts on one side of the job and stays about an inch above the bed. So lets say that the object is 180x50x20. The print job will start at y90,x-90 and start to move to y-90,x90 after the head passes y0,x0 it steadily lifts until it is about an inch off the bed at y-90,x90. I had removed the autolevel routine from the gcode before hand but have since added it back in. Im stumped!

Ok I never got this resolved. I recalibrated the printer and it will print small jobs fine. On large jobs it still lifts about 1" from the bed and thinks its printing fine. It does this with both stock firmware and TheVisads firmware. Any ideas on what to do next?

Resolved this awhile ago and forgot to post my findings up. Re-calibrated several times and found nothing out of whack. Loaded up a part for a quadcopter build that's 100X115X15 and watched the print job closely. As the slider on the X tower came down I heard a slight THUMP THUMP and saw the belt shake. The slider was hitting the bottom stop! I killed the print job and dropped the bottom stop about 1/4" and now everything is fine.

On another note, I really dislike these sliders. They are noisy and wobble slightly. Is there a more accurate quieter setup?

More accurate I don't know about but definitely smoother and less noisy, igus drylin.

I was so displeased with the quality of the rails in this kit that I ordered some from igus, TS-04-12 + TWE-04-12 carriages.

The other technique is to use V-wheels running in the extrusion slots, and no sliders. Works well for me.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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tadawson
You don't take the file over, you edit the values from the old version into the new version, by reading and comparing. As you have noted, a bunch of stuff has restructured in Marlin, and the old Configuration.h file won't just drop in.

To get the entire release, you need to be up a few levels at [github.com] You can select 'Download Zip', or, if you feel like installing git on your box, use the link given and do a git clone of the project . . . (which also lets you get incremental changes via git pull . . .)

Note also that the github link you offered is a private repo, not the main repository (which is here: [github.com] ). Not sure if you meant to be looking at that repo or not . . .

- Tim

Hi, I downloaded the complete zip version you have on Github. When I try to upload I'm getting the following error:

SanityCheck.h:247: error: #error Z_PROBE_REPEATABILITY_TEST is not supported with DELTA yet.
#error Z_PROBE_REPEATABILITY_TEST is not supported with DELTA yet.
^
Exception in thread "Thread-18" java.lang.NullPointerException

It goes on for a while with the exception errors. Is there something else I need to download? I know you mentioned a few posts back there could be issues with it due to updates. Can I get a copy of the version you're currently using to print? I also tried downloading the standard release marlin 1.0.2 but there are so many settings in it that are different beyond just the calibration adjustments that I'm concerned I will not be able to get it working on my own. Thanks!

Try commenting out the feature it is telling you is unsupported . . .

- Tim

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 01:28PM by tadawson.

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tadawson
Try commenting out the feature it is telling you is unsupported . . .

- Tim

What does that test do? Will removing it shut down the auto level function?

It takes multiple probes of a point to verify consistent results, and isn't needed unless the probe is flexing/inconsistent. Whether it is enabled or not has no effect on autolevel . . .

- Tim

When trying to heat up the bed I get this error when I reach about 80C:

"Error:MINTEMP triggered, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0
[ERROR] Error:MINTEMP triggered, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0

Error: Printer halted. kill() called!
[ERROR] Error: Printer halted. kill() called!"

Any ideas what it could be?

"Heater_ID: 0" isn't that the hotend? why do I get a mintemp triggered on that when the bed reaches 80C....??

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2015 05:59PM by Koenig.