Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level

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hideehoo
It lives! Using the latest Repeiter firmware and host, with Slicr doing the slicing inside of Repeiter. Pretty much all defaults at this point. These are the first prints after a rough calibration. 10mm cube came out a little rectangular (9.5mm x 10.2mm) and I need to recal with the bed and hotend heated to account for expansion (first layer was really squished). Raised the Z by 0.3mm on the next print, dropped the PLA temp to 190, and Marvin came out pretty good.

flic.kr

flic.kr

flic.kr

Nice. how did you work out the carriages? did you just go with parts you shaved down so there was no rubbing or did you work something else out?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2015 07:49AM by davidf01.

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Flish
Well, I stand (partially) corrected - all the free software produces about the same print quality (seen this firsthand and is not open for debate ) Simplify 3D might be worth the price... don't know firsthand about this one though. I mean, don't get the idea that you can have a machine not dialed in properly and have $150 magic software make up for that.
Whats with the slicing time? I've not see complicated large models take any more than 2 minutes to slice with the free offerings. However, this might be more dependent on the computer running the slicer... This certainly isn't a time bottleneck for the 3dprinting process though. Still, this wouldn't be a selling point for me.

You are absolutely right, your machine first needs to be as mechanically accurate as possible. This is an absolute and does not change regardless of the software or firmware that is present. Most of the free software use the same slicer, which is why you seeing similar results in the prints. As for the slicing time, I have had a full build plate with pretty complicated parts take 3-5 minutes to slice using Slic3r, threw it in Simplify and it sliced it in less then 20 seconds. The computer running it is a beast using Revodrive 3 X2 for the OS and work drives and Samsung 850 pro for the swap drive. Not sure what they have done, but there is no doubt that Simplify is doing something different with the slicing. It slices things that others won't and the speed of it is definitely a plus. Is it worth 150 though? That's a tough question and not one I am sure I can say yes to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2015 10:41AM by thevisad.

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davidf01

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hideehoo
It lives! Using the latest Repeiter firmware and host, with Slicr doing the slicing inside of Repeiter. Pretty much all defaults at this point. These are the first prints after a rough calibration. 10mm cube came out a little rectangular (9.5mm x 10.2mm) and I need to recal with the bed and hotend heated to account for expansion (first layer was really squished). Raised the Z by 0.3mm on the next print, dropped the PLA temp to 190, and Marvin came out pretty good.

flic.kr

flic.kr

flic.kr

Nice. how did you work out the carriages? did you just go with parts you shaved down so there was no rubbing or did you work something else out?

Just filed down my carriages. They're pretty tight on the beam, but seem to roll smoothly and the motors can move them fine without any skipping or overheating (at least with the small prints I've done to date). I'll probably reach out to Folger about this still, but wanted to finish the build in order to collect any other issues and have them all addressed at once.

Havent tried anything but Slic3r and that has worked for me, it has crashed on me a few times though loading stl files. It would be interesting to try Simplify3d. wish there was a free trial. But agreed with all the rest. Mechanically sound printers should be the priority first and foremost. I would have never thought of printing nice prints like this when I first started and to some this isnt even that great. To me it is though.

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cman8
Havent tried anything but Slic3r and that has worked for me, it has crashed on me a few times though loading stl files. It would be interesting to try Simplify3d. wish there was a free trial. But agreed with all the rest. Mechanically sound printers should be the priority first and foremost. I would have never thought of printing nice prints like this when I first started and to some this isnt even that great. To me it is though.

2015-08-27%2016.29.27_zpszapg7bqe.jpg

I like it, looks great!

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SlowFoot

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dc42

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SlowFoot
Thanks!
I have access to a workshop so I can machine the parts and/or make custom shims. But I still need an idea of what a reasonable tolerance is. At what level will the error drown in the general noise?

That's a very good question. I haven't done a mathematical analysis of the effects of different bearing spacings at either end of a pair of diagonal rods, or of the effects of the two rods in a pair having slightly different lengths. I have not seen any such analysis either. Maybe I'll do one when I have more time. All I know is that my effector does tilt slightly, and I compensate for the resulting probe height errors in the calibration macro file. Reducing the bearing spacing difference from 0.35mm to 0.1mm didn't help, so the problem must lie elsewhere in my build.

I built a simulator in the CAD, it is a bit of a beast to work with but I got some results.
0.5 mm wider between the balls joints, symmetrical error, at one carriage, give an error of less then a micron at the nozzle.
I only tested three positions so far I will play more another day.

Cheers!

The CAD simulation now debugged and and working fairly well. The error created in the example above turned out to be a bit bigger. If the error is at the z-tower, at +/- max x, 0 y, the nozzle will be out of position almost 0.2 mm in the XY plane and 0.1 mm in z.

So my parts have have to be fixed.

I've been using Simplify 3D for a few months with my Kossel. I should say it's not a Folgertech kit, but is a very similar scratch built machine that uses an AZSMZ mini running smoothieware.
In any case, Simplify3D is very nice, but in my opinion not that much better than Repetier - Cura/Slic3r for most printing. The main advantages are faster slicing, and more control over support material placement. You can autogenerate supports and then go in and remove material in areas where you don't want it, or add it to areas where it didn't generate any.
Repetier has a better user interface. As for a difference in print quality based solely upon the slicing sfotware, my experience is that sometimes there is a noticable difference - it all depends on the part and your slicing parameters. However, Simplify3D can not heal a poorly built machine - and in those cases the mechanical deficiencies will be the over-riding factor.

One other host software and slicer package I've not seen mentioned here is MatterControl. It has it's own slicer called Matterslicer which is very fast. Somewhat faster than CuraEng - almost on par with
Simplify3D. It seems to do a good job on small to medium parts. Mattercontrol itself seems to get a little sluggish on very large parts though.

BTW - that Moai looks very familiar Here's one I printed out a couple months back...
[www.thingiverse.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2015 05:17PM by KDan.

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-Greg

Well I received my kit today, yay. Now I'm going to inventory all the parts. Does anyone have a complete parts list for the current build? I have seen that some people were missing some of the bolts
and I would like to get a jump on what I will need if I dont have it. I'm guessing the Rev B build PDF is not up to date.

Well I'm short a bunch of T-nuts and the m3-20 bolts. I went to home depot and lows but they dont have any of those. Does anyone know where I can get some in the U.S.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2015 06:43PM by davidf01.

Does anyone have any suggestions for LCD touchscreens? i see the MKS TFT28 out there.. dont know if anyone has ever used that on a folgertech or not.

Folger doesn't have any bearing on what will work or not . . . the Kossel 2020 is bone stock Marlin and RAMPS1.4, so if the display works with that pair, it works with the printer . . .

- Tim

Does anyone know when or what I use the tensioner bolts in the sliders for? The directions say they will be use later but it never gets to it in the Rev B draft insturctions.

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tadawson
Folger doesn't have any bearing on what will work or not . . . the Kossel 2020 is bone stock Marlin and RAMPS1.4, so if the display works with that pair, it works with the printer . . .

- Tim

I understand that - i am asking about LCD touchscreens and if anyone has one - suggestions or experiences.

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Rattfink

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tadawson
Folger doesn't have any bearing on what will work or not . . . the Kossel 2020 is bone stock Marlin and RAMPS1.4, so if the display works with that pair, it works with the printer . . .

- Tim

I understand that - i am asking about LCD touchscreens and if anyone has one - suggestions or experiences.

On page 49 of this thread somebody posted something about a PanelDue screen. Not sure if that helps or not but it looked like a nice screen.

Should I be worried about this? My sliders all seem to be reversed compared to the install instructions. Will this effect the printer and or the parts that attach to it?


Slider Image

Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2015 01:04PM by davidf01.

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davidf01

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Rattfink

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tadawson
Folger doesn't have any bearing on what will work or not . . . the Kossel 2020 is bone stock Marlin and RAMPS1.4, so if the display works with that pair, it works with the printer . . .

- Tim

I understand that - i am asking about LCD touchscreens and if anyone has one - suggestions or experiences.

On page 49 of this thread somebody posted something about a PanelDue screen. Not sure if that helps or not but it looked like a nice screen.

I designed the PanelDue, and I support it and have it manufactured. AFAIK nobody has added PanelDue support to Marlin yet. Currently it is supported by RepRapFirmware, which runs on 32-bit Duet electronics and is being ported to some other 32-bit electronics. Someone also expressed the intention of supporting PanelDue in Smoothieware.

PanelDue has its own 32-bit processor for controlling the display, and it talks to the host electronics using gcodes over a serial link. So for Marlin on Arduino Mega/RAMPS to support it, Marlin would have to accept gcodes from one of the additional serial ports on the Mega, and support some extra gcodes such as M408.

The user interface has recently been revamped and it now looks like this.



I have also added a variant of the printed case design with a lip for mounting under the top horizontal extrusion of a 2020 Kossel. It's at [www.thingiverse.com].

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2015 02:50AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Thought I'd try printing a moai now that I've got some consistency in my prints. I dealt with a nasty skew in my print before I realized one of my pulleys was loose. I have lots of work to do to get it dialed like others I have seen here. Any pointers?

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darkROBOTsystems

Rattfink, can you give me a URL for your hexagonal extruder? Thanks.

How many microns is the printing resolution of the Kossel 2020? Who knows?

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Sven.L
Rattfink, can you give me a URL for your hexagonal extruder? Thanks.

How many microns is the printing resolution of the Kossel 2020? Who knows?

The tip is a .4, you can go down to .1 layers.

Sven

Found it on amazon

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2015 12:20PM by Rattfink.

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thevisad

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Sven.L
Rattfink, can you give me a URL for your hexagonal extruder? Thanks.

How many microns is the printing resolution of the Kossel 2020? Who knows?

The tip is a .4, you can go down to .1 layers.

Really? That might explain the underextrusion issues I've been having. For some reason I thought it was .5.

Should the z_min be NO or NC?

I just got replacement boards from Folger Tech (both Mega and RAMPS), and I am still unable to get the printer to move at all. I'm testing the endstops one at a time, as at one point the Y endstop was causing it to shut down (had the plug flipped, Doh). I was going to not use the Z probe and deal with the auto leveling later, but it's showing "TRIGGERED" when the switch is not pressed, that seems backwards to me...

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Rattfink

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tadawson
Folger doesn't have any bearing on what will work or not . . . the Kossel 2020 is bone stock Marlin and RAMPS1.4, so if the display works with that pair, it works with the printer . . .

- Tim

I understand that - i am asking about LCD touchscreens and if anyone has one - suggestions or experiences.

My point simply being that the Marlin support matrix will quickly tell you what works . . .

- Tim

Quick question for you. Can anyone tell me if this wiring looks correct? The instructions has different writing on the circuit board then
the one I have. I'm just trying to make sure I'm setting this up correctly before I put power on it.

My sliders fit very tight on the vertical uprights. I'm not sure how tight they should fit but I have to push that last wheel onto the
rail pretty hard. I'm worried the stepper motor wont be able to move the slider. Is there a way to tel if it is to tight?

Also my endstops are very loose. The bolt fits very loose in the bracket the endstop attaches to, is this normal?

Thanks

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2015 11:59PM by davidf01.

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davidf01
Quick question for you. Can anyone tell me if this wiring looks correct? The instructions has different writing on the circuit board then
the one I have. I'm just trying to make sure I'm setting this up correctly before I put power om it.

Thanks

Looks about right, match up the colors on both ends of the cable with the colors in the guide. As long as you wire both ends the same color combination you should be ok.

Corner braces for a Delta designed for the Folgertech size machines. These work perfectly with the Robotdigg corners, should work fine with the Folgertech and should add some rigidity to the machine.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:993474

For those that replaced your steppers, do you have to reconfigure the fw and recompile? Or is it just plug n play? I bought these as suggested. Will they work better?

[www.ebay.com]

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cman8
For those that replaced your steppers, do you have to reconfigure the fw and recompile? Or is it just plug n play? I bought these as suggested. Will they work better?

[www.ebay.com]

Since they are 1.8 degree they should be just "plug'n play", you will have to change the vref on the drivers though.
And from experience I can say that you might have to change the cabling over, manufacturers seems to have no real standard to this even if they use the same connector on the motors.

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thevisad
Corner braces for a Delta designed for the Folgertech size machines. These work perfectly with the Robotdigg corners, should work fine with the Folgertech and should add some rigidity to the machine.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:993474

75520d7f56.jpg

I tried braces like that several months ago (except modeled all in one piece) and they seemed to do almost nothing to reduce tower shake. The frame was still twisty. I decided that a lot more leverage was needed. So I modeled these...

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:978697

It brought the machine to a whole new level for rigidity. No more tower shake, the frame can not twist, and the surface quality of certain parts was clearly improved.

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-Greg

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davidf01
Does anyone know when or what I use the tensioner bolts in the sliders for? The directions say they will be use later but it never gets to it in the Rev B draft insturctions.

Those are for keeping the carriages tight on the aluminum extrusions. Mine were tight to start with, there is no slack or jiggle room when they are riding the extrusions. Apparently the carriages may loosen up do to wheel wear eventually, and then the tension bolts can be tightened.

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KDan
I tried braces like that several months ago (except modeled all in one piece) and they seemed to do almost nothing to reduce tower shake. The frame was still twisty. I decided that a lot more leverage was needed. So I modeled these...

It brought the machine to a whole new level for rigidity. No more tower shake, the frame can not twist, and the surface quality of certain parts was clearly improved.

Braces6_display_large.jpg

Hey, thanks for reviewing my part and sharing your experience with someone else's brace and the failure you experienced with that one. My part is one solid piece, modeled inside of openscad and designed to control the torsion where it exists.