Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level
Posted by Kasahabo
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 02:16PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
So, everything looks good. Just assemble it back, including endstops and hotend, put carriages in the middle of vertical rails and try to execute G28 command.
The only reason why motors work without belts and don't with belts - low current from drivers, that need to be calibrated with voltmeter.
The only reason why motors work without belts and don't with belts - low current from drivers, that need to be calibrated with voltmeter.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 02:18PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 02:20PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 03:54PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
So I put the belts back on and using the test code, the motors can move the belts. It worked and was amazing to watch it go up and down. Until the X carriage got stuck? It seems to have locked up, even trying to move it up and down while the machine has no power is a major struggle. Also, the extruder motor is still making a noise while it's spinning. It sounds like inside, something is pressing up against the motor causing it to not be able to spin without a lot of resistance. Any ideas?
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 04:53PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 05:45PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 07:21PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 107 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 07:36PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 07:51PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Captain_Tim
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paul_delta
If you want to go forward - start from vRef...
That seem to fixed the loud extruder noise. The X carrage is still stuck. I guess I need to take it off and have a look at it.
Some of us received this kit with sliders that are too tight. So tight that the adjusting screw doesn't make any sense. Just move slider up-down couple of times or insert something like piece of bamboo stick:
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 07:59PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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paul_delta
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Captain_Tim
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paul_delta
If you want to go forward - start from vRef...
That seem to fixed the loud extruder noise. The X carrage is still stuck. I guess I need to take it off and have a look at it.
Some of us received this kit with sliders that are too tight. So tight that the adjusting screw doesn't make any sense. Just move slider up-down couple of times or insert something like piece of bamboo stick
Well my troubleshooting leads me to believe the motor might have seized. The carriage alone moves fairly easily. I attach the belt and attach that to the motor, try to move it manually and it's virtually stuck. If I just pull the belt tight while it's not attached to the motor, it moves reasonably smoothly as well. Thus my conclusion is the motor. Any one else have an opinion on this matter?
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 08:02PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Captain_Tim
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paul_delta
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Captain_Tim
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paul_delta
If you want to go forward - start from vRef...
That seem to fixed the loud extruder noise. The X carrage is still stuck. I guess I need to take it off and have a look at it.
Some of us received this kit with sliders that are too tight. So tight that the adjusting screw doesn't make any sense. Just move slider up-down couple of times or insert something like piece of bamboo stick
Well my troubleshooting leads me to believe the motor might have seized. The carriage alone moves fairly easily. I attach the belt and attach that to the motor, try to move it manually and it's virtually stuck. If I just pull the belt tight while it's not attached to the motor, it moves reasonably smoothly as well. Thus my conclusion is the motor. Any one else have an opinion on this matter?
It's easy to check - just swap X and Y drivers and see if the problem will move to Y or not.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2015 08:03PM by paul_delta.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 08:04PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 08:07PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Captain_Tim
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paul_delta
It's easy to check - just switch X and Y drivers and see if the problem will move to Y or not.
That was my next step. It'll have to wait till tomorrow though after work. If it does end up being the motor, I would contact Folger for a replacement correct?
If your vRef is set as described in manual, all cables are OK (you can swap them as well to make sure) and motor X doesn't work if you move it to Y or Z circuit - probably it's the motor...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2015 08:07PM by paul_delta.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 08:17PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 08:20PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 15, 2015 08:32PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 08:07AM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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paul_delta
I spent a lot of time reading forums, etc to get answers to my questions. Memories will not last forever, so I decided to return something in the community while it is still fresh
Well it's very kind of you sir. I hope to also give back eventually, after this printer is up and running. I hope my issue is nothing fancy, so just a siezed up motor. Then I can get Folger to replace it, and I'd buy some spares. With this printer, I would like to print out pieces to make a CNC machine, then upgrade my Two Up, then build more printers. Doing all that will surely give me lots of experience that I'll gladly give back to the reprap community.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 04:48PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
Got some good news and I got some bad news.
Good News
The carriage seems to work fine after switching it to a different motor, yay for that!
Bad News
The new X-axis now won't turn. The machine is powered off so it should be able to move freely correct? Looks like Folger will be getting an email asking for a new motor. I hope that will be some of the last of my problems.
Side Question
To those who have wired the Z-probe (not the servo arm, but the actual probe in the newer kits), how did you wire the resistors and ground it? Could I get an image of your wiring for reference? The new build manual give a wiring diagram, but that's it when it comes to wiring. Easy to know how to attach Endstops/motors/heated bed/and hot end heater, but the rest isn't as clear. Thanks for the help
Good News
The carriage seems to work fine after switching it to a different motor, yay for that!
Bad News
The new X-axis now won't turn. The machine is powered off so it should be able to move freely correct? Looks like Folger will be getting an email asking for a new motor. I hope that will be some of the last of my problems.
Side Question
To those who have wired the Z-probe (not the servo arm, but the actual probe in the newer kits), how did you wire the resistors and ground it? Could I get an image of your wiring for reference? The new build manual give a wiring diagram, but that's it when it comes to wiring. Easy to know how to attach Endstops/motors/heated bed/and hot end heater, but the rest isn't as clear. Thanks for the help
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 06:34PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 67 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
Bad News
The new X-axis now won't turn. The machine is powered off so it should be able to move freely correct? Looks like Folger will be getting an email asking for a new motor. I hope that will be some of the last of my problems.
Do you have the motor wires unplugged when trying to turn the motor by hand? On steppers, if you short one of the windings, it will not turn.
Pull the motor wires from either the RAMPS end or the motor end, and then try turning it.
Rick
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 06:48PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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llamatrails
Do you have the motor wires unplugged when trying to turn the motor by hand? On steppers, if you short one of the windings, it will not turn.
Pull the motor wires from either the RAMPS end or the motor end, and then try turning it.
Rick
With the Motor connection disconnected from the RAMPS board, it is still stiff and doesn't turn.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 07:45PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
To those who have wired the Z-probe (not the servo arm, but the actual probe in the newer kits), how did you wire the resistors and ground it? Could I get an image of your wiring for reference? The new build manual give a wiring diagram, but that's it when it comes to wiring. Easy to know how to attach Endstops/motors/heated bed/and hot end heater, but the rest isn't as clear. Thanks for the help
In first revision of manual:
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 07:52PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Captain_Tim
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llamatrails
Do you have the motor wires unplugged when trying to turn the motor by hand? On steppers, if you short one of the windings, it will not turn.
Pull the motor wires from either the RAMPS end or the motor end, and then try turning it.
Rick
With the Motor connection disconnected from the RAMPS board, it is still stiff and doesn't turn.
There is nothing to do with this motor, just replace it. Even doesn't make sense to disassemble it to check internals because factory pre-magnetized rotor is very sensetive thing. Diassembly may hurt even 100% working motor.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 09:52PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 16, 2015 11:23PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 90 |
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paul_delta
Just repeat your calibration near screws, measure the Z difference in the center and multiply by 2.2. Add or substract the result to/from delta radius and repeat calibration.
But I suggest to find the center of plate (actually, the center of ABC towers triangle) first, as provided in video. In Marlin there is no procedure for that, so you can just use the rod or ruler to place endstops equidistant from the floor. The more your center is off, the more errors you will get near your screws after delta radius adjustment.
I think I have determined that my printer is printing on an angled plane. I know that has been discussed in this thread, but the search function on here is god awful.
I took that difference, multiplied it, and adjusted as you suggested. The X+- seems to stay even, but the Y+ and Y- seem to be opposites of each other. When Y- is about 2mm above the bed, Y+ is closer to like 4mm when I add to the radius adjustment, and drops them when subtracted. No amount seems to level them out tho, there's always about a 2mm difference.
All my endstops are at the same height when measuring with a ruler. That being said I will probably pick something up tomorrow to try that rod method in the video.
Nozzle is centered above the actual center of the print bed.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 17, 2015 08:20PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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fattmann
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paul_delta
Just repeat your calibration near screws, measure the Z difference in the center and multiply by 2.2. Add or substract the result to/from delta radius and repeat calibration.
But I suggest to find the center of plate (actually, the center of ABC towers triangle) first, as provided in video. In Marlin there is no procedure for that, so you can just use the rod or ruler to place endstops equidistant from the floor. The more your center is off, the more errors you will get near your screws after delta radius adjustment.
I think I have determined that my printer is printing on an angled plane. I know that has been discussed in this thread, but the search function on here is god awful.
I took that difference, multiplied it, and adjusted as you suggested. The X+- seems to stay even, but the Y+ and Y- seem to be opposites of each other. When Y- is about 2mm above the bed, Y+ is closer to like 4mm when I add to the radius adjustment, and drops them when subtracted. No amount seems to level them out tho, there's always about a 2mm difference.
All my endstops are at the same height when measuring with a ruler. That being said I will probably pick something up tomorrow to try that rod method in the video.
Nozzle is centered above the actual center of the print bed.
Looks like situation I had recently about tower offset. Read Koenig post about "radii" calibration. Probably your Z tower delta raduis (or not only Z) needs adjustment.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 17, 2015 08:24PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 17, 2015 08:43PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
So while I wait for Folger to get back to me as to whether or not they'll replace the motor, I have a few questions to ask you guys.
1. When I manually position the effector to be what looks like in the center of the build platform, it appears that two of the 3 carriages are at equal heights, but the thrid one needs to be higher up then the other two to center the effector. What could cause this, and what could I do to fix it? All the arms, but one, off by about 1mm or so (can't remember if it's slightly longer or shorter), are the same size.
2. What are the specs of the nema 17 motors used in this kit? For both the Extruder as well as the axis motors.
1. When I manually position the effector to be what looks like in the center of the build platform, it appears that two of the 3 carriages are at equal heights, but the thrid one needs to be higher up then the other two to center the effector. What could cause this, and what could I do to fix it? All the arms, but one, off by about 1mm or so (can't remember if it's slightly longer or shorter), are the same size.
2. What are the specs of the nema 17 motors used in this kit? For both the Extruder as well as the axis motors.
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 17, 2015 08:53PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 67 |
Quote
Captain_Tim
So while I wait for Folger to get back to me as to whether or not they'll replace the motor, I have a few questions to ask you guys.
1. When I manually position the effector to be what looks like in the center of the build platform, it appears that two of the 3 carriages are at equal heights, but the thrid one needs to be higher up then the other two to center the effector. What could cause this, and what could I do to fix it? All the arms, but one, off by about 1mm or so (can't remember if it's slightly longer or shorter), are the same size.
Sounds like the tower is not parallel with the other two, but is leaning inward which would push the arm up.
Rick
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 17, 2015 08:55PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 188 |
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Re: Folger Tech Kossel Delta 2020 Full 3D Printer Kit w/Auto-Level November 18, 2015 04:48PM |
Registered: 9 years ago Posts: 432 |
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Captain_Tim
1. When I manually position the effector to be what looks like in the center of the build platform, it appears that two of the 3 carriages are at equal heights, but the thrid one needs to be higher up then the other two to center the effector. What could cause this, and what could I do to fix it? All the arms, but one, off by about 1mm or so (can't remember if it's slightly longer or shorter), are the same size.
The best you can do for your delta and future prints - to make sure that all diagonal rods are equal. In your case the effector will tilt, Z-probe will return crazy values, you will have problems with bed leveling.
I recommend to replace this rod or (better) make another set using, for example, two nails on the board that will fit your ball joints without air gap - with 230-250mm between them.
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