Kossel Extruder Motor: I presume it's blown? Best Alternative?

Yeah, so I guess I shouldn't have installed the new stepper after a monster week at work... A bit calmer this morning. Thanks for the further advise. I did check the Arduino board and upload a sketch and it did take it. So maybe the voltage regulator did blow. I will check that later today (have to head back to work unfortunately).

I ordered a full electronics set, new Arduino, Mega and 5 steppers from Amazon (Sintron or something like that). It was only $50 bucks so I figured why not. I looked for good reviews but the sample size was small. We will see. I try to buy from Amazon because I'm at least positive it's going to get here.

While on that topic: Any suggestions for 'good' hardware? I would paid double or triple if I knew I was getting good stuff. Since I couldn't tell, I went for low budget based not the few that were there.

Thanks again, one more little setback.

I have mixed feelings on "budget" stuff Ive had some good experiences with it on the whole, but of course occasionally theres a dud.
Its worth while checking the Ramps board over when they arrive . Quite often the solder work isnt as good as it should be.
Ive recently had a brand new Arduino mega with a bad digital out pin that wont play nice ( Extruder channel wont reverse/ retract) so expensive isnt always perfect either.

I get most of my stuff from Hong Kong which can mean long waits for shipping ( which is usually free so no real compliants) But i always receive the goods. I think a lot of that is down to where you live and the customs/ import etc

Element14 / RS components are good but not cheap for lots of things. Again depends where you live
Ive also bought from HobbyKing who are pretty mid range when it comes to the price/quality balance. While they are mostly RC related they do have some good ramps / LCDs etc . Their filament is pretty good and cheap too.

Setbacks. Well its a steep but not too difficult learning curve you can find in most hobbies. You will end up with a much better understanding of your machine and that will be an advantage later when you print later ...trust me.
Having flown RC helicopters in the days before flight controllers beleive me this hobby is nowhere near as frustrating & expensive as others.
Patience is your best friend
Electronics are great till you let the magic smoke out

Good luck and keep us posted

I watched the voltage regulator video. I will do the test so see if that's the problem to know whether or not to replace the Arduino board too. Thanks for that link.

I hear you on the RC Helicopters. I used to fly a T-Rex. Unfortunately I got good enough where I got board with normal flight. I had to keep trying inversion moves after that. Once that started, the hobby got out of control. Every flight cost me $200-300 when I barreled it into the ground upside down. Messy. I sold it when I lost control inverted and just missed my sports car (although not massively expensive its becoming a bit of a collectors item so it would have been a super sad moment getting the paint cleaned up (or dents...)).

I'll update next week when I get the new electronics. Again: SUPER APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP.

I watched the YouTube video. I have 12.4 volts going into the Arduino and the voltage regulator (measured by the video) is 3.5v. I presume that means it's blown. The video doesn't explain what it should read. I'm assuming it should read the full 12.4v (or close to it).

Is that the case?

The other possibility is that the voltage regulator is going into thermal shutdown because of excessive power dissipation in it, caused by excessive current demand on the 5V rail.. When you measured the voltage, did you first disconnect everything (i.e. the RAMPS) from the Arduino? Is the regulator getting very hot? If so, is the atmega2560 chip getting hot too?

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I did the check with the Arduino board by itself like the video. You couldn't get to it with the mega on top. It would be near impossible to reach and the connections are not through connections to get from the back. I think I'm just going to replace the entire electronics package when I get it (aside from the LCD daughter board which I'm guessing is good and not critical if it isn't).

Yup sounds like the voltage regulator is cooked ( it should read 5 volts)

Its unlikely ( but not impossible ) that you have cooked the LCD as well. Never the less when the new stuff arrives dont install it at first. Get the Mega & ramps working properly first.

I completely replaced the electronics. New Arduino board, ramps board and stepper drivers.

Good news: Extruder Motor is unstoppable.

However, I still cannot print. It's just not getting enough filament melting down. I was running 3mm, it started great and then go bogged down. Once it got bogged down, the stepper kept turning but the gear was slipping on the filament. I'm not 100% sure I have a 3mm nozzle, so I took the 1.75mm one I have and tried it again (new g code for 1.75mm). In both cases, the extruder is trying to push the amount of filament it needs but the hot end doesn't seem to be taking it and thus it gets back up.

I'm not sure what to do with it now. My first layer on both prints was pretty good but it's almost like the filament is not heating fast enough. I'm running 225 degrees for PLA though. Would think that would be enough. It's really on the high end. Maybe it's too high?

Ok well good news on the electronics

Right so dont be too worried by the extruder issues...theres always an explanation and solution you just need patience.

You havent given me much to go on really.
What hot end are you using ( brand / type)
what extruder ( direct drive / geared drive / bowden)
Photos would help

Looking at it logically what effects the extruder
How much material you feed in
melting area
nozzel dia
temp.
the filament material

SO one by one
Have you calibrated the E steps for the extruder ? SO that when you click feed 10 mm that actaully 10 mm of filament goes into the extruder
Are you sure the hot end tip isnt blocked or damaged. Does your hot end have a fan. Most use fans to keep the melting area right down at the hot end and stop it creeping up the hot end. We need the filament to stay as solid as possible right up to the hotend tip to apply pressure and "force" the molten material out.
Are you sure you have set up the correct nozzel size in your software. ?
I dont think 215 is way too high but it is high for PLA. Unless you have some weird filament 200 should be enough.
I have fialment that prints great at 188 and some that need 210. Its hard to give a single fixed number but 200 as a starting point should be fine. When i get a new filament i start there and do print quality tests to see what give best results.

When in trouble try to give some set parameters so you can isolate the issue.
Print at 20mm/s and dont change ( or speed up / slow down during printing)
Set the temp to 200C

More detailed info on your hot end would go a long way to helpin diagnose the issue

Good luck

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 11:06PM by bigfilsing.

Apologies i just realised you have posted pics of the extruder ( sorry i was confusing this thread with another)
so simlar pics / info on the hot end would be good.

Im not a big fan of those direct drive extruders as they rely on the spring to apply pressure to the filament roller and i don't see much chance to adjust.
But it sounds to me like a hot end problem

Another thing to check in your slicer is you retract settings. Make sure they are not too big There are known cases where having too much retract pulls molten material up the hot end where it jams
1mm ( max 2mm) to start with ( this might give blobs/strings but you can tweak this later when you can complete prints)

Normally speaking you cant run 3 mm filament on a 1.75 extruder and vice versa !!!! How did you swap to try 1.75???

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 11:08PM by bigfilsing.

Is this your hot end
at 1:26
[www.youtube.com]

Here are the answers:

1. The hot end in the video is the one I have. I cannot 100% confirm the filament size it's supposed to take. MakerGeek website said it was a 1.75mm hot end in an email but their site says its 3mm. At start up heating at 220-225, I can feed filament relatively easily. Meaning if I click extrude, material comes out etc.
2. I believe the nozzle to be 0.4mm nozzle. I cannot confirm that. I get .44mm with the micrometer of the filament after a slow drying from the nozzle. Not sure that helps.
3. Extruder is direct drive. I have a back up geared drive one that I can install if needed.
4. I am running 225 start 220 run temp currently.
5. Extruder is calibrated. It moves filament at the proper amount per Pronterface.
6. Hot end has a fan (same looking on in the video above).
7. Retraction in Slicer is 1mm
8. Extrusion multiplier is 1.

I will screen shot the setting in Slicr in a bit. That work thing is getting in the way my toys at the moment.

Thanks for the help.

It may be a silly question, but have you checked that the hot end fan is working and turning the right way, i.e. blowing air over the hot end cooling fins?

If you can feed 3mm filament into your hot end and have it come out of the nozzle at least sometimes, then your hot end is designed for 3mm filament. If it was designed fort 1.75mm, then the filament wouldn't fit into the Bowden tube or the hot end.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Good news on confirming 3mm hot end...

The fan is on and blowing in the correct direction (I just double checked after the board switch over so thanks for the reminder).

The hot end is 'getting hot'. Certainly burned my finger good last night...

Silly question - did you confirm that the thermistor in the hotend matches what you have set in firmware? Are the heater and thermistor firmly attached to the hotend block? Just trying to confirm that the indicated 225C is really 225C, because that should be enough to melt PLA...unless your filament is really ABS.....

Quote
dc42
It may be a silly question, but have you checked that the hot end fan is working and turning the right way, i.e. blowing air over the hot end cooling fins?

If you can feed 3mm filament into your hot end and have it come out of the nozzle at least sometimes, then your hot end is designed for 3mm filament. If it was designed fort 1.75mm, then the filament wouldn't fit into the Bowden tube or the hot end.

Not necessarily true but difficult to tell without stripping the hot end
it could be that it has a 4mm dia internal for the 4mmOD 2mmID PTFE tube which would allow the 3 mm to go in. Apologies but im a bit skeptical but the web site spec say 3mm but a bowden tube for 1.75.
And im still baffled that you "tried" 1.75 and how ??
If indeed the bowden tube is for 3 mm and the bowden tube fits the push fit fittings properely then its fair to say its a 3 mm hot end.

Try 200 C ... i still think youre on the high side and to think that the higher the temp the more chance you have of it "creeping" back up the hot end.( especially during slow moves and retracts)

Just a quick "hands on" check of the extruder. While its extruding, try to pinch and hold the filament where it goes into the extruder. It should be very difficult to stop if your stepper and gear are working correctly.

Is there any adjustment of the pressure roller possible on the extruder you have. All i can see is a spring

It might also be worth checking the PID settings in your config.h to make sure the hot end can "keep up" with the extrusion
You can easily check this by closely watching the temp in pronterface ( switching the graph on makes it easier to monitor ) as it it prints

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2015 09:20AM by bigfilsing.

Good news on confirming 3mm hot end...

The fan is on and blowing in the correct direction (I just double checked after the board switch over so thanks for the reminder).

The hot end is 'getting hot'. Certainly burned my finger good last night...

I will post my Slicr settings shortly.

In relation to the 1.75mm: I simply heated up the hot end, pulled the 3mm out. Pulled it out of the tube and extruder and placed the 1.75mm in (thru extruder tube etc). Both will flow material when manually extruding. Not sure you are supposed to do that, but that's what I did...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2015 06:29PM by Dark Skunk.

(This didn't show as well with the tabs I had setup so I highlighted values in red to make it a bit easier)


Slic3r Settings

Printer Settings
General
Layer Height 0.4mm
Perimeters 3
Solid Layers Top 3, Bottom 3
Infill
Fill Density 40%
Fill Pattern honeycomb
Support Material
General Support Mat Unchecked
Pattern Spacing 0
Raft Layers 0
Speed
Perimeters 3mm/s
Infill 60mm/s
Travel 130mm/s
Brim
Brim Width 0mm
Sequential Printing
Complete Ind Obj Unchecked
Extr clearance Radius 20mm
Extr clearance Height 20mm

Filament Settings
Filament
Diameters 1.75mm
Extr Mult 1
Temperature
Extr 1st Layer 227
Extr 2nd Layer 223
Bed 0

Printer Settings
Size and Coordinates
Bed Size 80x80mm
Print Center 0,0
Firmware
G-Code Flavor RepRap Marlin, etc
Extruder
Nozzle Dia. 0.4mm
Retraction
Length 1mm
Lift Z 0

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2015 06:59PM by Dark Skunk.

Couple of settings to change.

Layer height > 0.3
Perimeters > 15mm/s
Infill > 30mm/s
Travel > 100mm/s
Extr 1st layer >205
Extr 2nd layer >205
Filament Diameter > 3mm dia

1. When I pulled out the 1.75mm filament, there was a 'bulged' spot at the end and it measured just over 3mm. That pretty much confirms the 3mm head I think.
2. I applied these setting to my baseline:
Layer height > 0.3
Perimeters > 15mm/s
Infill > 30mm/s
Travel > 100mm/s
Extr 1st layer >205
Extr 2nd layer >205
Filament Diameter > 3mm dia
4. The filament just doesn't continue extruding. It gets stuck at some point and stops. See attachment and it shows what it started to do (the perimeter looked good) but once it make a pass or two it just stops flowing. NOTE: Extruder does not stop anymore but it's struggling to push the filament. This was why I was going up in temp thinking it would help.
5. I am now trying 210 heat but am open to additional changes.

Thanks

210 was worse. The extruder gear is slipping on the filament for sure. It seems like the filament just can't get through the hot end. Almost like the inside of it wasn't smooth or something. I'm going to 215.

215 was not much better. I was watching the extruder gear slip. I took my hand and tried to force the filament into the extruder, when I did that and it fed, it seems to print. I think I'm going to swap out to the high end extruder I bought. Something needs to change.

I think it was that extruder slipping I think. I put the geared one in I bought when I thought the motor was no good. It's a monster. The print appears to be great.

2 Questions:

1. I I am writing it stopped in the middle of a sweet print. It's going a few steps every few seconds now. Thoughts? I do have an SD card. Not sure how to print from it. I'm pretty sure the machine is doing it currently.
2. I used this for the geared extruder. Is that the right process? Should I remove the micro step jumpers? Wasn't sure.

#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {94.1, 94.1, 94.1, 1211}

Yeah that extruder caused me some heart ache. My x and y are pretty good as the pics show. Z is a bit off but the stopping didn't help. I will run off SD card next time. I'm sure it's not hard I just didn't look into it yet. I did a short vid to show quality. Looks pretty solid to me. I'm pretty happy for the first print. I see a few bulges but it could just be the stopping.

I have a heated bed but it won't turn on. Do you need to enable it in Arduino? I'm not getting power when I initiate the bed with Pronterface.

That and in put on my 1211 motor setting and I should just about be closed out on this thread. Probably need a new one for the heat bed. I need to put some search time in first though.

In relation to this thread, based on the print, any setting changes suggested? Am I too hot, not enough?

Thanks again everyone for your help. I'm feeling good it's starting to print some quality....

Glad its at least printing now.
It was always going to be a hard job for your direct drive set up to do 3mm filament

Personally i wouldn't start SD card printing until you have some experience on settings under you belt.

The stop/start print is a bit strange...sounds like a USB issue . The starting point for that would be the usual > change cable /check connection / make sure PC isn't doing anything else > turn of any sleep or screen saver settings etc etc

As for improving you quality

Double check the steps for the extruder ...make sure 10mm is going in when you issue the command. Dont remove the jumpers!!
Its difficult to measure 10 mm so tell it to feed 50mm then measure

Temperature setting >> follow this guide [www.youtube.com]
I don't bother with the g code editing just lower the temp manually every 5 mm up the tower

then speed ...same as above ...print the tower and adjust every few layers or so

you can also do the same for extrusion multiplier

The trick is to be patient and do them one by one and not start adjusting multiple settings

Bed > When you turn on the bed does the LED on the ramps board light up ? do you get 12 volts on the ramps terminals D8 ( just above the power connector)

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2015 11:46PM by bigfilsing.

One other point don't try using the same PC for anything else whilst you are printing with it.

Also one other question what Display are you using on it?

Doug

Love the video. I'm working on that now.

In relation to the heat bed, no the board LED does not light up. There is not power where the leads pick up. Do you need to enable it in Arduino? That was my presumption. I tried searching on that and didn't find much. Working the calibration now which will keep me busy for a few hours.

I assume that you are feeding 12V power from your power supply to both the 5A input (logic/heaters/steppers) and 11A input (heated bed).....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2015 06:59PM by vreihen.

Uuuuuhhhh, of course??......

Maybe thats the problem...

Thanks!