Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Feel lost

Posted by Taz-dig 
Forum List Message List New Topic
Taz-dig
Feel lost
June 29, 2015 11:08PM
I currently own a makergear m2 printer and love it. I wanted to build my own printer so I designed a delta printer using the maker slide rails. I printer all the needed parts, ordered all the hardware and all items. I spent all weekend from Friday until today building and calibrating the machine. After I was all done, I ran my first test piece. Not what I expected. It looked underextruded. I validated the extrusion length multiple times. After about 3 hours, I noticed that I was not pushing any filament all the time. It looked like the hob was slipping. What I found was that either I could not over come the back pressure, or I can't push hard enough. Right now I am printing a geared airtripper to see if that helps. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

I have a ramps 1.4 board with an e3dv6 hotend. Nozzle size is .4mm. I will post pictures of the printer tomorrow if anyone is interested.
Reply Quote
asbo
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 06:06AM
I've had a similar problem, this is how I solved it:
  • Turn the hotend on and let it reach temperature.
  • Disconnect the bowden tube from the top of the hotend.
  • Loosen your extruder's grip on the filament so you can pull it through by hand.
  • Trim the filament sticking out of the tube as it will likely be a bit distorted, you may also want to sharpen it into a slight point.
  • Pull about 10cm of filament through the tube and straighten it.
  • Now feed that filament into the top of the hotend until it starts coming out of the nozzle. (You'll probably want to lower the hotend towards the bed so you can get your head between the printer towers and look down into the top of the hotend.)
  • If you can't feed the filament in you may need to increase the temperature or perhaps the hotend is blocked somehow(I've never understood how that can happen though).
  • With the filament coming out of the nozzle push the bowden tube into the top of the hotend. Remember that on a V6 the bowden has to go all the way down into the heatbreak(the threaded bit that attaches the heater block to the heatsink).
  • You should now be able to push the filament through the hotend from the extruder end of the bowden tube.
Note: I found it really difficult to push the bowden tube all the way down into the heatbreak, bevelling the end of the tube slightly with a pencil sharpner made it a lot easier.

Hope that helps smiling smiley
Reply Quote
LarsK
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 09:45AM
Buy a new nozzle (just the nozzle) and either buy as or drill up to 0.5 or 0.6 and use that while you commision your printer.

Also your hub should never slip on the filament. You need to adjust the power on the extruder motor so that it skips steps on the stepper instead of grinding down your filament. This is for two reasons; 1) If the blocking is solved it wont have grinded itself into the filament and it can start again. 2) A filament that is deformed and grinded on will have higher friction in the bowden tube and more prone to getting stuck inside the hotend. 3) When you stepper misses a step you can clearly hear it, this gives you a clear indicator of when your extruder is not extruding.

Is the e3dv6 the Chinese copy or the real deal?

Are you printing in PLA or ABS? What temperatures are you using? What is your retraction settings?
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 10:21AM
asbo,
I have no issue pushing the filament through, I can feel the back pressure though and I am concerned this hot end may not work for this machine.It does extrude, but it does it in a horrible fashion. I think due to the slipping on the filament.

LarsK,
I have a Chinese copy and have ordered a real one from E3dv6 to make sure this is not the issue. I have multiple nozzles and will open one up to .5 and one to .6 to test.I have tried both PLA at 215C and ABS at 255. I have gone as high as 265 with the ABS and 250 for the PLA, but just burned it at that temperature.I am also ordering a new hob to see if this is an issue as well.

I want to thank you for this information. It helps to hear from others that I am at least looking in the right direction. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
Reply Quote
vreihen
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 12:19PM
Do you have an always-on cooling fan on your E3Dv6? If not, that may be the cause for your back pressure.....
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 01:35PM
I have the fan always running that is wrapped around the hotend,
Reply Quote
LarsK
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 02:12PM
Quote
Taz-dig
asbo,
I have no issue pushing the filament through, I can feel the back pressure though and I am concerned this hot end may not work for this machine.It does extrude, but it does it in a horrible fashion. I think due to the slipping on the filament.

LarsK,
I have a Chinese copy and have ordered a real one from E3dv6 to make sure this is not the issue. I have multiple nozzles and will open one up to .5 and one to .6 to test.I have tried both PLA at 215C and ABS at 255. I have gone as high as 265 with the ABS and 250 for the PLA, but just burned it at that temperature.I am also ordering a new hob to see if this is an issue as well.

I want to thank you for this information. It helps to hear from others that I am at least looking in the right direction. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Hot-end blockage can be so many things and it is really dynamic...


About your hotend - The real E3dv6 is all metal all the way to the nozzle. But the Chinese copies sometimes confuse the Makerbot design with the E3d. The difference is that there is a teflon pipe at the nozzle - It looks like this: [www.aliexpress.com]

Are you sure that yours is all metal at the end?

Also are you sure that your heatbreak (the stainless part) have full contact with the nozzle? If the nozzle and heatbreak is not in full contact then your plastic will go into the exposed thread and create a heat barrier with high friction and other unwanted effects.

Once you get one of your nozzles drilled up, try to run again, this time with PLA 190 deg C and with retraction set to 0.5 mm.

If that dosen't work then you have a real problem and I would say wait for the new parts you ordered because if it doesn't work in that setup, then it will never work with a small nozzle and real retraction settings...
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 07:11PM
Larsk, the hot end is all metal and I left the nozzle out about a half to one turn then screwed the heat break into the nozzle. Then I turned the nozzle back until it made contact. After the contact, I heated the hotend up to 200 and tightened the nozzle down with a snug fit. I have drilled out the nozzle to .6 mm, the only drill I could find in the shop, and was able to print. It does not look great, but it is a start. I will post pics of the printer and print when it gets done.
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
June 30, 2015 10:10PM
Here is a pic of the machine. Still working on the calibration now. We will see how goes smiling smiley
Reply Quote
Attachments:
open | download - delta1.jpg (102.5 KB)
wayno complaino
Re: Feel lost
July 01, 2015 04:51AM
I was having similar issues and i found that my thermistor setting were wrong. At room temps it looked correct but when hot the temp recorded was higher than reality. This meant it wasn't melting the filament quite enough and caused the symptoms you describe plus regular blockages. Once i changed to the correct 'B' value for my thermistor it printed lovely every time.

+1 to lowering the extruder motor power too.
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 03, 2015 07:53PM
I have verified and changed the thermistor to the correct item. I still am not able to get the .4mm nozzle to print. I worked on calibrating the whole machine again and found a couple of other issues that I have addressed. One thing I think is hurting me is that I am using magnetics to hold the arms and hotend. I think I am going to change the arms and hotend to a setup with spectra line. I see the hotend shake will it is moving. Thanks for everyone for their input. I will get this at the end.
Reply Quote
LarsK
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 03:26AM
You hotend shaking is not related to the magnets (at least I can't see how it should be). Vibrations have to come from somewhere and that is most likely your carriage. Try to move each by hand and see how that goes. They should be really lose and not meet any resistance.

You should be able to make very nice prints with 0.6mm nozzle. The only limitations are the smallest radius you can make and maybe you will have just a little more stringing. I strongly recommend you stay with if for now and focus on solving your other problems.

If you post a picture of something that you print, then it should be easy to see where you are at.
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 08:58AM
Thanks Larsk,
I will print a part and post it with my slicing settings. I am using simpfly3d for slicing. It is what I use for the Makergear M2.
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 09:17AM
another problem that may be causing this, If someone could throw there thoughts would be great. I checked the carriages and they move fine with no resistance. They are adjusted just enough to get the play out of the carriage but not over tightened. While checking the carriages, I have 2 magnets that the chrome is coming off. I have attached a picture. could this cause my printing issues?
Reply Quote
Attachments:
open | download - magnet-problem.jpg (99.9 KB)
open | download - carriage.jpg (91.6 KB)
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 10:06AM
I just printed this.The walls have separation in them. You can see the wall not smooth as well. Settings as follows,

.2mm layer height
20% infill
2600 mm/min on print speed
Reply Quote
Attachments:
open | download - 25mm cube.jpg (138.5 KB)
Koenig
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 11:58AM
Quote
Taz-dig
I just printed this.The walls have separation in them. You can see the wall not smooth as well. Settings as follows,

.2mm layer height
20% infill
2600 mm/min on print speed

Looks like you have lash somewhere.
"They are adjusted just enough to get the play out of the carriage but not over tightened." I don't think there should be any "play", the carriages should be supertight, no wiggle-room at all while still running easy up and and down.
Reply Quote
LarsK
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 04:58PM
Well. Try to print a lot slower. Like half of what you do.

Try to push your hotend and see if it the system is obviously lose.

Do you have a z probe ?
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 08:50PM
I am trying to print at half speed. I think there is a dimension off somewhere. When I start out printing, there is a small gap near the bottom right and top left of the square. I have changed the infill to 75% over the perimeter, and still can't fill the gap. I will have to see if any of my towers are out. I do not have a z probe yet, maybe I need to add that? Trying not to get too many variables in this issue.
Reply Quote
ekaggrat
Re: Feel lost
July 05, 2015 09:08PM
your carriages seem to be the problem . The belt is touching the belt clamps.. You need to run your belt straight and square or you are going to get all sorts of errors..

see the attached image
Reply Quote
Attachments:
open | download - magnet-problem.jpg (104.1 KB)
dougal1957
Re: Feel lost
July 06, 2015 03:24AM
Quote
Taz-dig
another problem that may be causing this, If someone could throw there thoughts would be great. I checked the carriages and they move fine with no resistance. They are adjusted just enough to get the play out of the carriage but not over tightened. While checking the carriages, I have 2 magnets that the chrome is coming off. I have attached a picture. could this cause my printing issues?

Looks like the carriages are rotated in relation to the sliders?

Doug
Reply Quote
LarsK
Re: Feel lost
July 06, 2015 06:45AM
Hello,

I don't understand what you mean when you say the chrome is comming off. Is the carriage loosing contact with the rod so that it is only secured on one of the two rods at times ? That is unacceptable and will for sure give issues. If you just mean that the surface treatment is failing then no worries for the time being.

A z probe would make troubleshooting much much easier as your printer error margin can be readily estimated with that.if you have the opportunity to install that even temporary you should.
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 06, 2015 12:03PM
ekaggot,
The belt does rub, I am in the process of printing new ones that don't rub. the space if for the belt tension-er that is built into this design. I would not think that this would cause many issue, but I am going to eliminate that problem.

Doug,
I don't understand what you are trying to explain. The carriages are built with the magnets at the top of the carriage to get a higher build volume.

Larsk,
The chrome is flaking off, connection is stable as I print. I will work on creating a temporary holder for the Z probe. I have a touch sensor only an not an optical for this one yet.
Reply Quote
dougal1957
Re: Feel lost
July 06, 2015 01:50PM
Quote
Taz-dig
ekaggot,

Doug,
I don't understand what you are trying to explain. The carriages are built with the magnets at the top of the carriage to get a higher build volume.

To me the balls look as if they are rotated by a few degrees clockwise with respect to your verticals giving the impression that your top idlers are off to the left could this be causing your issues it could also just be an optical illusion with the angle of the photo.

Not sure how I can explain it other than that.

Doug
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 09, 2015 11:34PM
Latest update. In looking at building new top carraiges, I noticed when I ran the carriage up and down with the belt attached they ran smooth. If I took the belt off, it felt like there was a flat spot on the wheel.the side pressure of the old design was pushing the v bearing on an angle. This lead me to redesign the lower carriage that has the maker slide v bearing on it. So I redesigned, printed all the new parts with my m2 and recalibrate the machine. Prints look. Better, not a 100% yet but getting there. I will post a pic of the printed part and the new carriage. It has a printed esentric design now. I will update this when I get the new hot end.
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 16, 2015 10:45PM
Another update. i am getting closer I think to the end. I found out that my knock off nozzle was crap and LarsK u were right is had the wrong guide. i have machined a new internal guide ( the one with the small hole on top ). I have attached the old and new internal. The other picture I have attached is my current issue. Is this a tower issue. If you look inside the yellow circle, you can see how the first layer does not appear to be a square. I am adding a probe on my system like this one. See attached link.

[www.youmagine.com]
Reply Quote
Attachments:
open | download - badnozzle.jpg (145.4 KB)
open | download - goodxozzle.jpg (134.6 KB)
open | download - printhelp.jpg (157.3 KB)
tadawson
Re: Feel lost
July 16, 2015 10:54PM
The first looks like it was either for 3mm, or was designed to have a teflon tube in it . . .

- Tim
Reply Quote
ekaggrat
Re: Feel lost
July 17, 2015 06:05AM
it is a chinese knockoff designed for a ptfe... but this one seems to be with a 4mm ptfe sleeve which is worse .. the ones with 3mm ptfe work fine
Reply Quote
Taz-dig
Re: Feel lost
July 17, 2015 06:18AM
It did not work. That is why I machined an E3D-V6 version myself. That part is good now. I really need input on the printing of the first layer and what would cause the machine not to be square on the print?
Reply Quote
LarsK
Re: Feel lost
July 21, 2015 12:40PM
Hello,

The problems you are presenting can be:

* Lag of tightness in belts.

* Incorrect rod length / horizontal length

* Incorrect setting of end-stops (nozzle not in perfect center)

* Bad nozzle temperature

* First layer height


For sure a Z- probe would help greatly in determining what is going on.
Reply Quote
Newer Topic Older Topic
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login