Would like some help sourcing parts for a new build

I built a delta a couple of years ago, then I upgraded it with my own printed parts and other stuff.

But then one of the carriages of my own design decided to give up, and I didn't really have any other way of getting a replacement + I got my first kid...
So the printer started gathering dust.
But the other week I got an urge to either get rid of it or "fix" it so I started to look into things, just to realize that even when it was working I was already sourcing for parts for a new build (just I was going to print some of them).

So instead I'm going to do a completely new build (sort of, except for parts I already have as spares or was already ordered for my new setup last time around).

So for the frame I think I'm fixed, 20*60 for the verticals (1m) and 20*80 and 20*20 (450mm) for the horizontals (20*20 on one side in the bottom to have cables run in, through a printed side or something like that), as for the corners I have some aluminium "braces" someone designed a couple of years ago ( I guess they never really took off though...)

As for some other parts I am just about to order a smart effector, Haydn's rods and a duet and I also have rails (MGN...) to put on the verticals.
The rest I need some help with, PSU (24V), heated bed (I'm thinking something feeded 230V directly) and steppers (0.9 degree ones) + whatever else comes to mind.

I'm situated in Sweden so parts from EU is preferable.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: I think I'm aiming for some sort of flying extruder so I'll need parts fort that as well, if this is advisable, if not how would one go about shortening down the bowden tube, or is there some good firmware feature to compensate?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2018 01:18PM by Koenig.

Hi. Fellow swede here.

Conrad has a pretty good selection of power supplies. I ordered my last PSU from Elfa, but only because the model I wanted wasn't in stock at Conrad.
As for stepper motors, I recommend OMC StepperOnline. They can ship most steppers from Germany, so you get pretty fast shipping and avoid customs fees.

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tomasf
Hi. Fellow swede here.

Conrad has a pretty good selection of power supplies. I ordered my last PSU from Elfa, but only because the model I wanted wasn't in stock at Conrad.
As for stepper motors, I recommend OMC StepperOnline. They can ship most steppers from Germany, so you get pretty fast shipping and avoid customs fees.

Thank you for your reply!

Conrad seems to be using mostly Mean Well power supplys (the ones for this purpose) is this a good brand?
And how much power do you reccon I need?

As for Stepper-online, I've ordered from there before and have no trouble doing so again, only "issue" I have with them is they have cables running out of their motors, I preffer a some sort of connector on the motor instead.
I have very little experience with stepper-motors so I can't really tell if the ones I got the last time I ordered is good or not, or if there's only marginal difference between makers/brands, so some advice here would be appreciated.

As you probably can see from what I have ordered and have since earlier, I'm actually looking for something I would call "medium budget high quality parts"

MeanWell PSUs have a good reputation, except that some users find the fans rather noisy.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Sounds good then!

A "LRS-150-24" is ordered it should be quiet since its fanless!

I hope I have enough power with that, it delivers 6.5A and I'm counting that the motors will use something like 1.2A each wich leaves 1.7A to the hotend and electronics.

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Koenig
Sounds good then!

A "LRS-150-24" is ordered it should be quiet since its fanless!

I hope I have enough power with that, it delivers 6.5A and I'm counting that the motors will use something like 1.2A each wich leaves 1.7A to the hotend and electronics.

See [duet3d.dozuki.com].

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42

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Koenig
Sounds good then!

A "LRS-150-24" is ordered it should be quiet since its fanless!

I hope I have enough power with that, it delivers 6.5A and I'm counting that the motors will use something like 1.2A each wich leaves 1.7A to the hotend and electronics.

See [duet3d.dozuki.com].

Hmm, I just got to thinking now that 150W (6.5A) might not be enough.

Looking at steppers they do have 2 phases, does that mean they use 2 times the rated current or does each phase use half the rated current at stand-still?

My old build had a 12V 30A powersupply, but it also used the 12V to heat the bed.

EDIT: Looking at the specs for some steppers at steppers-online it actually says "Rated Current/phase:"

But the wiki dc42 linked to says rated current times rated voltage, but with a 24V powersupply are we not feeding the motors 24V?
Which means the current can be much lower to achive the same wattage if the motors are rated 2.8V?
OR do I have to find motors that are rated for 24V (the insulation of the coils might not be enough for 24V if they are rated 2.8V...?)??

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2018 08:51AM by Koenig.

You may find this page useful: [duet3d.dozuki.com]

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tomasf
You may find this page useful: [duet3d.dozuki.com]

It was, thanks!

At least I got the rated voltage part cleared out, it's the voltage drop over the winding, I'm guessing the rest of the energy will be taken up and cooled away by the stepper-drivers then...
I'm an electrician and have basic knowledge about the electric happenings but I am a total novice when it comes to electronics, the printer I built earlier was from a kit (which i modified a bit)

Anyway, from what I gather both the wiki and the specifications of the motor I'm looking at says I need to count with 2 times the rated current times 0.85 for what is to be used as a maximum.

So I'm looking for a power-supply that can deliver 1.68*2*4*0.85=11.424A of current just for the steppers (( rated current * number of windings * number of motors * 85% of rated current) not sure about the extruder stepper yet, but lets count with that anyway)

So I would need to at least double the amount of power of what I have already ordered

The one I ordered is apparantly not allowed for use in Europe anyway, missing PFC-circutry

Okay, before I go any further with the power, perhaps I/we should iron out wich steppers I should use.

I'm looking at theese two: 17HM19-1684S and 17HM19-2004S
Where the latter one have much higher inertia 82 vs 68 g-cm2 but also a lot less inductance 3mH vs 4.1mH
I'm thinking 3 of either of these as axis motors.

When it comes the the extruder I'm a whole lot more uncertain, on my last build I had a rather long bowden tube and that gave me some problems, the driect drive didn't have enough torque even att full current, so it kept on missing steps so I got a geared extruder, it was something like 5:1 and that had issues with the retractions instead.
So this time around I'm looking at a flying extruder, to shorten the bowden-tube and maybe be able to not use a geared motor.

Recommendations here would be much appreciated!

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Koenig
Anyway, from what I gather both the wiki and the specifications of the motor I'm looking at says I need to count with 2 times the rated current times 0.85 for what is to be used as a maximum.

No, you don't need that much power supply current. Read the wiki page that I linked to in my post.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Have you considered a remote direct drive such as Zesty Nimble? I can highly recommend it.

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dc42

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Koenig
Anyway, from what I gather both the wiki and the specifications of the motor I'm looking at says I need to count with 2 times the rated current times 0.85 for what is to be used as a maximum.

No, you don't need that much power supply current. Read the wiki page that I linked to in my post.

Yes, the rated rated voltage times the rated current would be the power developed in the motors, 2.8*1.68=4.704W
As per wiki that would only describe the power developed with only one winding powered up, for standstill you would need both windings powered up simoultaneously wich would the be double that amount.

But here it becomes a bit out of my understanding because if you set the drivers to feed the motors with 1.68A of current will they then not draw 1.68A from the PSU?

And 1.68A at 24V is ~40W....

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tomasf
Have you considered a remote direct drive such as Zesty Nimble? I can highly recommend it.

I can go for something like that, there's also the FLEX3DRIVE but I can't find if either of them will fit on the smart effector.

You don't need to allow for both windings because when one winding is getting full current, the other winding gets no current. The current drawn from the PSU is much less than the current in the motor windings, because the stepper driver is in effect a buck converter.

I believe both Flex3drive and Nimble have already be used with the Smart Effector.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2018 04:30AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42
You don't need to allow for both windings because when one winding is getting full current, the other winding gets no current. The current drawn from the PSU is much less than the current in the motor windings, because the stepper driver is in effect a buck converter.

I believe both Flex3drive and Nimble have already be used with the Smart Effector.

Both seems to need some sort of adapter, wich I, since I don't have a working printer, are not able to produce.

So I would still have to go for a flying type of extruder at first, or a very long bowden tube wich in my experience is not good.

Found this adapter: [www.shapeways.com]

So it's looking like the Nimble is the way to go, any motor-recommendations for it?

I'm curious on how you are mounting all of your aluminium extrusions,

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Vigilant
I'm curious on how you are mounting all of your aluminium extrusions,

Last time around I had plans on building a bit larger delta so I ordered a couple of the Metal Kossel 25000 Vertices and the extrusions as well.

So I had that to start with now.

I guess they never really took off in the community though.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2018 02:06AM by Koenig.

One Nimble on order.

Plus an adapter from shapeways.

As for the steppers wich are preffered by the ones I linked or are there better ones I should get?
And what about the stepper for the extruder, it seems it has a very high gear ratio, so I'm thinking it might due with one of the steppers I have lying around from my first kit, they are similar to these: [www.omc-stepperonline.com]

That stepper is unfortunately a high voltage/high inductance one, so I don't advise using it. I use [www.omc-stepperonline.com] for a 3:1 geared extruder. For the 30:1 of the Nimble, it may be that [www.omc-stepperonline.com] is more suitable. Try plugging both sets of numbers into the calculator at [reprapfirmware.org] and see which one gives you the better speeds.

For the towers, with Duet WiFi/Ethernet electronics my choice would be the 17HM19-2004S that you linked to earlier.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42
That stepper is unfortunately a high voltage/high inductance one, so I don't advise using it. I use [www.omc-stepperonline.com] for a 3:1 geared extruder. For the 30:1 of the Nimble, it may be that [www.omc-stepperonline.com] is more suitable. Try plugging both sets of numbers into the calculator at [reprapfirmware.org] and see which one gives you the better speeds.

For the towers, with Duet WiFi/Ethernet electronics my choice would be the 17HM19-2004S that you linked to earlier.

Thank you for that sir!

An order for 4 steppers have been placed.
For the extruder-stepper I went with the same as you have, not to much difference between them but the one you have seems to be able to achieve som higher speeds with the same current.

So it seems only the hotbed is left to source.
There seems to be plenty of vendors for a silicone heater, are there anyone one should watch out for or are they all about the same quality?

I already have an SSR, and do work as an electrician so the mains part I think I have an handle on.

When thinking it through here I also need a solution for the idlers at the top, so I think I have to do some research about how others with the same vertices have done.

Most things are en route now so it'll soon be time to start mounting everything
For some reason my order for the duet/smart effector seems to just be "pending" though...

EDIT: And a few hours after I wrote that I got a notice in the mail....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2018 01:53PM by Koenig.

I'm trying to find a 330mm diameter cast aluminium plate to use as heatbed, but no matter how much I search I can't find any.
Last time around I found plenty of these, but now they seems to be hard to find.

My plan was using this plate with a 300mm silicone-heater attached to it and then som glass on top of it (300mm glass)

Anyone have a good tip regarding this or maybe another way of doing it?

A hexagonal build plate might be even better and would be easier to cut. I'll email Aluminium Warehouse and see if they can do one.

My own printer uses a 5mm aluminium disc from Lakeland Steel. I was lucky, it is flat.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2018 01:46PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42
A hexagonal build plate might be even better and would be easier to cut. I'll email Aluminium Warehouse and see if they can do one.

My own printer uses a 5mm aluminium disc from Lakeland Steel. I was lucky, it is flat.

I was actually thinking about a hexagonal plate as well, but underneath the round one...

A hexagonal plate on top of the bottom frame (adds to ridgity plus it acts as a protecive lid for the electronics) and then a sheet of cork for insulation, then siliconeheater, then tooling plate (round) and on top of that a sheet of glass.
The tooling plate would be screwed to the hexagonal plate with strong springs in between, I was thinking 3 countersunk screws here, one at each tower, to be able to adjust the plane.

A friend of mine has promised to help me with the cutting of the hexagonal plates (he can't do cast aluminium for some reason though) in 4mm aluminium sheet, if I only make and upload some CAD-model to him.

I'm still waiting for the 20*80 horizontals from motedis though, think I'm gonna mail them in the upcoming week as I ordered them about a month ago. (can't make a CAD-model without building the frame to get the measurements from, haven't done any fancy drawing for this )

But I guess it doesn't matter much if the tooling plate is hexagonal or circular, so if they can do it it's definitly of interest.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2018 02:02PM by Koenig.

I'm not convinced that adding a hexagonal plate on top of the frame would gain anything, assuming you use metal frame vertices as I do. But I'm not a mechanical engineer, so I could be wrong.

I've emailed Aluminium Warehouse, With luck they will respond on Tuesday.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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dc42
I'm not convinced that adding a hexagonal plate on top of the frame would gain anything, assuming you use metal frame vertices as I do. But I'm not a mechanical engineer, so I could be wrong.

I've emailed Aluminium Warehouse, With luck they will respond on Tuesday.

I have a set of the 25k vertices that I'm going to use for this build.

Perhaps you are right about it won't gain anything, but I don't think it'll hurt either. I'm planning to put the electronics in the bottom so it'll at least protect that and act as a support for the cork insulation.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2018 02:51PM by Koenig.

I mailed Aluminium Warehouse as well but with a very saddening result, they won't deliver to Sweden.

But I might have found a local way of getting some tooling plate, won't know for sure until next week though.

How did the search for Aluminium go?

Past few weeks I have been dealing with a similar situation here in Norway, no metal company's willing to sell to private-persons, I have a few leads but still am afraid that my search will come up empty handed

I came over this rather sexy adapter for using ATX PSU here, it would not necessarily require an adapter to use an ATX power supply but I like it simple and clean, now its quite expensive but i'm sure its possible to find a cheap replica from China. Not to mention ATX power supply's bellow 600watts are cheap A.F. and readily available.

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j0achim
How did the search for Aluminium go?

Past few weeks I have been dealing with a similar situation here in Norway, no metal company's willing to sell to private-persons, I have a few leads but still am afraid that my search will come up empty handed

I came over this rather sexy adapter for using ATX PSU here, it would not necessarily require an adapter to use an ATX power supply but I like it simple and clean, now its quite expensive but i'm sure its possible to find a cheap replica from China. Not to mention ATX power supply's bellow 600watts are cheap A.F. and readily available.

Thing is I know we have it here locally, they have it in stock and is only a few km away from where I live, but they don't do retail sales (only deals with companys).
So last week I found another company who uses the first one as a supplier and they do allow for retail sales, so I called them last week and ordered some, and they said they would get back to me, but I haven't heard anything yet...

Regarding power, I am not in use of that much, I bought a 150W Mean Well PSU, that should be sufficient, the heatbed I am going to power via a SSD and a Keenovo silicone heater (230V)

Everything is starting to come together now, missing some screws and small things, and the heater for the heatbed is stuck in customs, but otherwise I getting ready to start building.

Just stalling a bit since I got a new position in my company 2 weeks ago, and there's just a ton of stuff to get into.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2018 01:40PM by Koenig.