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Introducing the ramps 10 - "Ramps10" an open source multi-configurable stepper controller shield based on the Ramps 1.4 design.

Posted by Simba 
hmmm a CNC beast VDX ?


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... actually I'm using my old CNC-mill with halfstep and 12.5 microns resolution at home -- but have plans to assemble another cartesian machine with the 325V-drivers and a tilting-arm Delta with the 1/256 microstepping drivers and some NEMA-34 stepers.

Have to do some homework -- but maybe I can offer some simultane driving 5-axis (upgradeable to 8-axis) controllers with I/O for below 400€ ... it's a comercial development, but aimed onto low-cost/DIY too ...

Quote

hmmm a CNC beast VDX ?

... not the 'beasts' - the 325V-drivers+motors are from Berger&Lahr / Precitec, the 1/256 microstepping drivers from IMS ...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2013 03:49AM by VDX.


Viktor
haha i though 325v was volts. then i had a peek in ebay. so its a endless loop feedback. it must be really precise !!!
[www.ebay.com]

im not sure what simultane is, google doesnt show me anything, wad is simultane?

but these things look so ex, how isit able to reach below 400e ?


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... the B&L-3-phase-stepeprs are driven with a voltage of 325 Volts for higher dynamics grinning smiley

'simultane' means all 5 axes are driven simultanuously, so the CAM can drive really complex '5D'-curves instead of common 2.5D or 3D with presetting the turning axes ...


Viktor
i see, its much like those commercial super mills. XYZ arm plus rotary axes on the tooling platform or something.

like this? lol ... ima buy 1000 if its 400E !!! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out ... but then again ... the fun is in the making of it, it is going to be totally pornographic to make such an armed printer !!!
[youtu.be]


btw how did you achieve 12micron with 1/2 stepping? really small pulleys? or gears or gear reduction?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2013 04:47AM by redreprap.


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... the hardware seems to be the easier (cheaper) part for simultane 5D -- the software ist the more critical aspect ... have to check, how far the company is with the controller - they use them in dental 5-axis-mills ...

With my 1/2-stepping mill -- the motors are driven with 400 steps per rev. and are attached to screws with 5mm pitch per rev. -- so the resolution is simply 5000/400 microns ...

Some years ago I've modified one of this mills with 1/8 microstepping drivers and milled some really tiny parts from thin sheets (0.3mm PEEK, 0.1mm steel) with a repeatable accuracy of around 5 microns, what was mainly caused by the inaccuracies/play/friction of the ball bushings in respect to the screws, 'elasticity' in the motor positioning and stick-n-slip effects when changing the moving direction.

The B&L-drives have much better pre-tensioned screws (with 5mm/rev., the linear drives have 180mm travelling range) and are specified with a resolution of 0.5 microns and (load-depending) accuracy of 1 micron ... so would give a neat XYZ-stage for my hires laser-worx winking smiley


Viktor
oh my, dental mills. so now instead of FFF, a precise machine could just mill a block of wood straight! that will be really cool

aha the Z thread. i have a sample of 2 steppers coming in, the factory installed the threads as part of the shaft, the are 150mm run length.

i was recently drawn into smaller and smaller actuation lengths because i got hooked into PCB milling (even before i finished making the other normal FFF printer) ... sometimes i hate my hobby. so i went ahead and came up with the idea of building the 2nd machine first lol.
[3roomlabs.blogspot.sg]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2013 06:48AM by redreprap.


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... yes, 'dental'-CNC-mills ... they have really good accuracy (need it for milling the the tooth-caps with 'optical' finish), are small enough to fit on the desktop ... but really pricey too -- around 20k€ !

Have a dental-3D-scanner too for scanning small parts with high accuracy - so a more precise mill is one of the upper points on my agenda winking smiley


Viktor
ic, i have been keeping a lookout for cheap scanners. did you see the 1 on kickstarter? i think it was going for US$700 odd. not sure about the accuracy tho.

it will be fun to scan thing into blender and muck around ... then print em :p


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... read here: [forums.reprap.org]

Have modified some old/scrapped DLP-beamers for prices of 45€ to 10€ for Structured-Light-scanning -- better/faster than laserline-scanning.

There are some images of the dental-scanner too ...


Viktor
> *edit* something really interesting about the
> china chinese way of driving steppers, everything
> that is a stepper seem to drive at 30volts ...
> even if it is rated at 12v.

Most stepper motors can take about 10 times or more than there rated voltage. Many systems I have worked on use 12 volts for slow speed and then 36 volts or more for high speed. That is why the stepper driver IC's control the current. You have to apply a large voltage at high speed or else the motor stalls / misses steps. I have a built a cnc machine with 4.8 volt steppers and I ran them off 24 volts for hours. When designing a stepper conroller you usualy have to decide on a current feedback resistor on the driver IC. This will affect the maximum current regardless of the voltage supplied
redreprap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm a CNC beast VDX ?


agree....with NEMA 34's of course grinning smiley
SouthT

I agree. The chinese way is odd - I do run 2.7V motors at 24V no problem. But, I don't know why they don't just raise the rating.
Incidentally, the fuses on RAMPS are rated for 12V, but you can run them at 30V supposedly.

*** Disclaimer: With constant/max current control

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2013 05:35PM by Simba.
... attached an image for size-comparison - the leftmost stepper sitting on the gear box is a NEMA-17, the big box with connectors is a 2x B&L-driver for the 325Volts-steppers, the small board in front is one of the 1/256 microstepping drivers from IMS


Viktor
Attachments:
open | download - Stepper-Vergleich2.jpg (329 KB)
yea with that kind of equipment, you definately wanna put on some HIWIN rails ! give everything zero friction where possible, slick "pornographic" equipment !!!

i have no idea how these 325V things work, i read some CNCzone stuff, but still ... i just dont think i can buy more stuff to play with LOL .... or else i have to give up my bed space !


VDX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... attached an image for size-comparison - the
> leftmost stepper sitting on the gear box is a
> NEMA-17, the big box with connectors is a 2x
> B&L-driver for the 325Volts-steppers, the small
> board in front is one of the 1/256 microstepping
> drivers from IMS

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2013 10:45PM by redreprap.


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... I'm using different linear bearings and stages - see attached images here: [forums.reprap.org]

But they all have friction and stick-n-slip, so not really suited for microns accuracy eye rolling smiley

For high accuracy I'll need either 'overconstrained' linear stages and 'beefy' motors as the 325Volt-motors and the attached pretensioned spndle and the dual-rail linear stage ... or PZT-motors like the PiezoLegs mentioned here: [forums.reprap.org]

But the PZT's are too 'overconstrained' for rigidity ...

For 'serious' sub-nano-accuracy I've developed magnetically driven positioners with ferrofluid-bearings (see attached image, the open box in the fine-placer or the two black-blue boxes on the right T-slot plate) - absolute no stick-n-slip or static friction (have some viscosity defined effects when moving fast), but not rigid enough for milling or such ... was aimed for force-free apllications and micro-biology winking smiley

PS: my basement has enough rooms, so I haven't to occupy the bedrooms grinning smiley


Viktor
Attachments:
open | download - Gerwahmikro-Teile.jpg (221.9 KB)
aha rack and pinions

your dev of mag driven positioners ... in theory its like a magnetic rails? linear drive?

speaking of stick n slips, i wonder how much play my wooden X-axis will give ... it will be a real laugh if it does 50um ! LOL


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... in the mag-drives I'm pushing a NdFe-magnet with an adjustable outer magnetic field - the ferrofluid acts as 'bushing' to prevent any sticking or friction.

The small boxes (XY and Z) on the T-slot plate have 500 micron travelling range, the open XYZ-positioner in the fineplacer has 1mm.

The accuracy is in the 'atomic' range, only defined through the accuracy of the DAC - i'm using 16bit DAC's, so some ten nanometers, but with 24Bit you can go 'AFM' winking smiley

Later (for applications needing more rigidity) I've switched to the PiezoLeg-PZT-motors, that have 22mm travelling range and 150 nanometers per 'step' and sub-nano-accuracy when 'bending' the legs in analogue mode ...


Viktor
i see, i presume these are the precision drives to enable the optics to focus on the sample or to move the sample platform to the lens.

[en.wikipedia.org]

what do you do with those in your basement? nanobots?

come to think of it, now if only you have nanometre nozzles and microextruders ....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2013 02:59AM by redreprap.


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
redreprap Wrote:
> what do you do with those in your basement?
> nanobots?
... long story short: I was busy the last twenty years with development for micro- and nanotech ... sometimes in a day-job, sometimes in D/EU cooperation projects, sometimes on my own ... and many of the parts are the prototypes or 'residues' from finished or closed projects eye rolling smiley

Have plans to restart some of the developments on my own again, as the NDA's are timed out or based on my own IP's ...


> come to think of it, now if only you have
> nanometre nozzles and microextruders ....
... I have some ... and methodes/devices for nano/pico-dispensing of single droplets of high viscous materials with droplet-sizes of single microns or even nanometers in diameter winking smiley

I'm working on a printing methode, that will place dots and traces of molten filament, but in diameters/thickness of some ten microns with different (laser-meltable) materials -- the thinnest 'filament' was made with a platinum wire of 10 microns diameter.
I have some nanowires with 10 to 100 nanometers diameter and methodes+devices for handling them -- but this would need some more concentrated effort, than actually possible in the 'hobby'-mode ... maybe later winking smiley


Viktor
fascinating !!!thumbs up


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
Simba

"Incidentally, the fuses on RAMPS are rated for 12V, but you can run them at 30V supposedly. "

It is not the voltage that blows the fuse. It is the current.
The controller that I was using was something I made myself using l297 and l298 chips. There are newer chips but at the time they were fine for my use.

BTW I have a project which requires various i/o and am thinking of putting a board together which I can also use to control a 3d printer. I use the AVR Xmega chips - not really Arduino compatible but much more powerful than the ATMega although it uses the same compiler etc so it is not a big step up from Arduino. I will include a boot loader, SD card and USB. It is not going to have motor drivers on it but I will make it easy to plug the motor boards into it.
Simba Wrote:
[about linking stepper motor drivers such as StepSticks for higher current output]
> It is important that linking two chips works. I
> can't see why it wouldn't - sharing the load,

It won't work, and it is obvious why if you look at the data sheet for any of those chips. You will inevitably end up with one driver trying to pull an output high while the other driver is trying to pull the same output low, simply because the power switches aren't synchronised between the two drivers.

Additionally, most of these stepper motor driver chips use low side current sensing. If the current sensing resistors' ground ends are not insulated from one another, the current passing through each resistor will be a mixture of the current supplied by each chip. Load sharing won't work properly and/or reliably then, although with closely matched power switches, such as multiple outputs from the same chip, it would likely work well enough.

> It certainly works in the opposite direction (one stepstick, two motors).

One output connected to two inputs, which is completely different from two outputs connected to one input.
... remember an old post about parallelizing two LM298 for higher current: [forums.reprap.org]

I'm actually trying to source comercial 5-axis-controllers with microstepping 8Amps drivers and clocking speeds up to 100kHz for around 400€ to 500€ - 'hope to receive the specs and selling conditions soon ... maybe be I can negotiate some 'forum-discount' -- so could be interesting for DIY too, although it's not OS winking smiley


Viktor
aarrgh .. i was reading something halfway ... got distracted and forgot where the original thread was ...

[fab.cba.mit.edu]
has to do with the above,

does anyone know about what bits they use for wood milling?

is this the bit? they call this a flute right?


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... I'm using 'flute-head' millbits like this types with diameters from 0.3mm to 6mm: [www.sorotec.de]


Viktor
ah ok

i found these
[detail.tmall.com]
[detail.tmall.com]
[detail.tmall.com]
[detail.tmall.com]

the pointy ones i believe are good for PCB milling


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... for the previously mentioned commercial low-cost CNC-controllers - I've got more precise specs:

they'll come from Isel for around 500€.

Basic version 4 (or 5?) axes:
Max voltage/power ratings --> 48V/8A
- step resolution 1/1 bis 1/256 microstepping
- current adjustable in 32 steps
- max. step-rate 200kHz
- 2Ref switches per axis
- brake max 700mA
- 10 digital inputs
- 8 digital outputs 100mA
- 1 analog output 0-10V (10bit)
- RS232 for peripherals (software-depending)
- USB-port

Expansion board:
- 2 additional axes, 8 inputs, 8 outputs, interface SK-modul (display?), jog-wheel
- 0-10V input, 0-10V output,

- optional DLL-interface for software

- until 8 axes possible with this board,

-- 16 axes with a second board per USB.

Controlling should be Isel-specific with NCP-code or DIN-ISO/G-code with WinRemote or programs capable of Isel-output.


Viktor
the software that "digests" the shape and commands the axes?


______________________________________
__my mixed bag blog || aka --> [http] || ___ so 3D printing is everywhere ... dont worry, hospitals can now 3Dprint body parts, they will charge you $1million excluding surgical fees ... you will die paying your debts. thats their aim ___ if every patent expires tomorrow, everybody will surely get a 3dprinter and make EVERYTHING ! ____ there is a "DIY-DTG" t shirt printing forum, you can mod an EPSON printer to PRINT like a pro. ___ CNCzone? overly commercialized it seems ___ my country? they will be taxing you for every cm of road you use and track you to your grave using GPS and its government authorized, now they will fire all the traffic wardens instead.___ EEVBLOG? there is only 1 way to do things --> take it apart like a pro
... you can download the software "Remote LT" for free (after registration) from the Isel-DL-page

I'm driving my CNC-mill with this and can generate the needed NCP- or G-code for 3D (milling and printing) or 2D (PCB-milling and lasercutting) with different programs.

AFAIK you can read the G-code generated by the RepRap-hosts, when you replace or modify the E- and M-values to a 4-th axe or compatible I/O-commands, used in common G-code syntax.

In 1986, for my first CNC-mill (from Isel too) they didn't have any software for my Atari ST, so I had to write a 2.5D-CAD and my own drivers for it eye rolling smiley ... the complete code-syntax is open, so you can write your own software for it ... and with the optional DLL this could be even more capable than 'simple' G-code- or NCP-syntax ...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 03:55PM by VDX.


Viktor
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