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remote driven extruder, not a bowden

Posted by Blitz2190 
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Blitz2190
remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 23, 2013 12:02PM
i have just finished designing a remotely mounted motor setup for a geared extruder, meaning the extruder body still moves but the motor rests on the x-end, I have yet to print all of it as im away at school but i uploaded to share and hopefully get some constructive feedback to improve the design, the number one design goal was least amount of vitamins and simple to obtain which i believe I have accomplished. the drive shaft is a hardened steel square shaft from vex robotics easily obtained from their store and has remarkable torque strength.

attached is a rendering and the design can be found on thingiverse
remote extruder
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Attachments:
open | download - remoteExtruder.jpg (136.6 KB)
Sublime
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 23, 2013 01:26PM
It has been talked about a few times.
[forums.reprap.org]
[forums.reprap.org]

And done at least once.
[garyhodgson.com]

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Tantillus.org Mini Printable Lathe How NOT to install a Pololu driver
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 23, 2013 04:24PM
I've seen those, the problem with multiple rods is the flex which i find there is very little with the vex rods as they are intended to handle torque, as for the last one that i liked the idea so I designed parts to actually accomplish it as it didn't seem to go much past his concept markup, What i hope to accomplish is making this easy for everyone and hopefully get some feedback to imporve the design. the belt idea is just way over complicated.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2013 04:26PM by Blitz2190.
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dentaleducation
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 02:06AM
sorry.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 08:42AM
for a uesless post?
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Gerard Choinka
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 09:39AM
Why not moving the gears also to the x-end, just the filament drive gear on the square rod, the normal hobbed bold and the bearing are also adding weight to the x-carriage and limiting the z height
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 09:56AM
I thought about that the only problem is it put triple the torque on the square bar, increasing the friction for the sliding gear, as for the Z hieght I'm working on new vertices, but they might require cutting the threaded rod

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2013 09:58AM by Blitz2190.
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NoobMan
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 10:47AM
What exactly is the motivation of this?

It adds extra parts, shaft, bearings, etc, so it better have a good reason for it. Regarding acceleration and stuff like that, x carriage works together with y carriage, and only which is heaviest matters and second place is irrelevant. I dont think extruder carriage weights more than the bed, i think usually its the other way around and bed is heavier, e.g. printing on glass, mirrors, or ceramic tiles lol. Hence not really much reason to take weight off the extruder, and all the complication may not give any real advantage. I think in most cases the weight probably needs to be taken from bed. But thats up to you to judge, you could do this for fun, but just a heads up that the utility may not be so great.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 11:32AM
it would provide the exact same advantages of the bowden without the hysteria, also it does allow more clearance than the regular wades extruder when at higher z heights due to the motor not contacting the frame, when i did a simulation in inventor it allowed almost the full use of the print bed, and i don't see how its irrelevent saving weight on moving mass will always yield an improvment in print quality, even if it was only in one axis direction. it only adds 2 parts by the way which can be had for under $15, so i think its worth it. not to mention faster prints with close the same quality when used in conjuntion with lightwieght beds(i used a light flat piece of wood, heated bed and glass, no bottom plate) and propper belt tension. also it might help with the thread rods on the z-axis from any unwanted binding by making it an even load

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2013 11:48AM by Blitz2190.
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knowbusiness
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 08:08PM
I think this has potential. If you were to put ball bearings in the inside of the small gear, on the square shaft, it would slide with out much friction, that might be a way to direct drive the hobbed gear/bolt.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
April 24, 2013 11:07PM
after i give this one a shot i'll try that as i have some extra bearings, and see how they compare, ill have to see how big i can make the drive gear without overstressing the stepper, or i might try to adapt this [www.thingiverse.com]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2013 11:10PM by Blitz2190.
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fredted1234
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 02, 2013 06:46PM
What if you used a small solinoid to push the gear on the square bar back and forth between two different extruders so you could print two colors with the same motor.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 02, 2013 11:13PM
this could actually be very doable just have to come up with an offset extruder to feed two filaments, might make it in the next revision, im curently fighting with my printer to make it work
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fredted1234
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 03, 2013 10:31AM
Ye I was thinking a small solinoid like the ones found in some cameras, could have a spring pushing the gear against the solinoid.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 03, 2013 03:14PM
I was thinking more along the lines of a micro servo used in rc helicopters very small lightwieght and good power
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fredted1234
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 03, 2013 07:24PM
Ye even better cheap and easy to source. You mite have problems with lineing up the teeth on the gears when it switches between extruders. But just an idea, I'm sure someone has the answer!
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AndrewBuchinger
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 04, 2013 08:18AM
Theo nly problem I see with it is you are going to need some space so the gear will slide, that means the gear will play a little bit before engaging. You may end up with inacurate extrusion then.

Of course I think this should go through to the prototype stage at the very least! I also don't know how tight you can get it with bearings.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 04, 2013 08:48AM
Right now with the hearingbone gears it has the same if not slightly less play then stock wades gears but the gear slides nicely on the shaft. i was thinking i might be able to go even smaller with the clearance if i use nylon but im trying to keep this viable for everyone
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AndrewBuchinger
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 10, 2013 11:20AM
I am building one of these this/next week. Will get back to you all with results!
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
May 10, 2013 03:29PM
Cant wait to hear, im now finally getting around to finishing mine, my psu crapped out and found a steal on a coolmax 400 watt with 25 amps on the 12v for $15
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rick55
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
June 12, 2013 04:36PM
What about using a belt drive to a gear that drives the extruder? You'd need idlers to wrap the belt around the gear, and the firmware would have to make the extruder motor motion be a delta from the X drive. If the extruder moves N teeth more or less, that's N teeth worth of movement transmitted to the extruder.
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Blitz2190
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
June 18, 2013 01:27PM
a very interesting idea, unfortunately I am now working 7 days a week so development has all but ceased, I've been playing around with my pcduino to develop an all in one electronics similar to ramps, so between that and this all my free time is gone.
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Cronos51101
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
June 29, 2013 04:57AM
What if you made a bowden driven direct drive? Say you used two bowden cable sleeves to run a single steel cable (welded into a single loop) to drive your direct extruder head with a motor mounted on the frame somewhere else? Pretension on the cable would prevent hysteresis when reversing and you could gear it to run however fast you want.
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Komb'
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
March 27, 2015 02:56PM
Sorry for reviving this old thread.

However, when I decided to impliment the garyhodgson design (pointed out by Sublime above...) as an actual dual head printer, I was determined to post it here.

Unfortnatly, it took me way longer to build & perfect than I had hoped. Plus it took me too long to get around to posting about it and finding the original thread that inspired it.

Anyway, Here it is:





You can see it running on YouTube called Protoformer 1

I welcome any questions/comments but know I don't own the unit. It was built for a customer.

It is using 3mm filament. It can be carried by the top bar while both rolls of filament are on.

I do intend to build another, with some improvements as time/money permits. smiling smiley

Komb'
Glankonian Protoforms
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realthor
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
August 13, 2015 10:50AM
Very cool. I know it's old thread but the direct drive remote extruder idea is never an old one. The latest craze with this is the flex-shaft which is a nice solution but prohibitively expensive, at about $100 with shipping or even more. Frankly this kind of ingenuity is way healthier for the reprap community than relying on for-profits.

Keep the ideas flowing.

RepRap Lander concept on Concept Forge
RepRap Lander concept on RepRap Forums
My Things, mostly experimental stuff
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691175002
Re: remote driven extruder, not a bowden
August 14, 2015 09:42AM
My approach has always been to ensure the frame is rigid before resorting to workarounds.

Moving up an extrusion size and buying some linear rail will also improve print quality and is arguably more robust.
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