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Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface

Posted by pikelo 
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 10, 2011 03:54PM
I have unmount the Z axis, I slided the nut on the rod separatly and it really slides quicly by hand, there is no any problem about the nut+rod. I just can think now in two possible problems:

- Not enought Amp. from the power supply what it doesn't give enough torque, but this is like impossible because I just have connected the motors on this PSU and it's a 12V-20A.

- Electronic problem.

Aligment was fine also. Said they can move almost perfect when I move them down, but they half-move or no move when I give the order to go up.
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 11, 2011 06:44AM
Electronic problem can be ruled out if you connect Z-axis motors to another known-good axis driver. If it works nicely when you connected to let's say driver of X-axis then you have a problem with Z-axis driver.

Next, is to check what happens with the motors without the rods connected. If they work ok without load but skip steps under load it means you need more torque (i.e. more current). If you are testing it without other motors, test-bed or heated bed running (which is suggested) then you can rule out a "not enough power" from your power supply.

If the motors do not work as expected without load they you know it is not a torque problem and might be the motors have a problem.

I assume you've already ruled out any electrical connection problem (and/or solder job problem).

misan
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 12, 2011 08:19AM
I think I found the problem.

The X-axis carriage where the X-motor is instaled is bending a little the Z axis threaded rod and making mor difficult to go up the X carriage on this side. On the other part of the X carriage, it moves "correctly" up and down, while in the problem side, it moves almost "fine" down and very very difficult to up.

I gave the order to go up +10mm and if I help with a finger, it moves much more better. I need to find something to make it softer and don't blend the Z rod..but I didn't find anything yet.
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 12, 2011 02:23PM
I attached the motor with a plastic element to the X-idle carriage and the problem still goes on. The thing is, if i order on pronterface to go down the Z axis there is no problem, just if after this I change the order and send to go up, the first time that change the direction to up, the motor z axis rod, the motor miss some steps. If after this I order to go up again, it workes fine.. I don't know how I should solve this problem.. confused smiley
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 12, 2011 03:59PM
Still didn't find how to solve this issue.. Here I attached the Amp. measures from all Pololus:

Ext 0.639 / 0.4 = 1.59A
Z 0.659 / 0.4 = 1.6475A
X 0.165 / 0.4 = 0.4125A
Y 0.169 / 0.4 = 0.4225A
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 13, 2011 04:42PM
FINALLY the problem has been found. There wasn't any mechanical problem. It was a BAD SOLDERING in a stepstick pin from the Z axis. After change everything thousand of times, I changed the to a new stepstick and it worked fine, now I can run the Z axis at 200 mm/min. Also because I installed the jumpers.

Thank you to everyone!

P.S. New step is to find how to get 110ºC at the prusajr heatedbed.. I just get maximum 73ºC with a power supply of 12V.20A, and the hotend at 248-250ºC..
If anyone had the same issue I'll thank it smileys with beer
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 13, 2011 05:08PM
Congratulations on your solving of the problem. I'm sure that now your prusa is much quieter because of the microstepping.


misan
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 13, 2011 05:24PM
Compleatly SILENT! I liked to hear just fan's noise! smiling smiley For now I have on mind how to solve the heatedbed issue, because I'm extruding ABS..quite difficult for a beginner I think.

Thank you!
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brnrd
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 13, 2011 05:34PM
Your power supply need to be able to supply 12V when connected to the Prusa PCB if you want to be able to go to 110C and above. I think you posted earlier that it drops down to around 10V when the bed is connected.
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nophead
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 13, 2011 07:10PM
Yes power is proportional to V^2 so any small drop will lower the bed temperature by a large amount.

I had to use dummy loads on both the 3.3V and 5V rails to force the 12V rail up. I only got it to 11.84V at the end of its wires with the 5V rail at 4.73V and the 3.3V rail at 3.05V. I also had to common four sets of 12V wires from the PSU as they were way too thin for the rated current and got hot themselves! A totally crap PSU, but it was given to me so I can't complain!

I also had to use thick wire to the bed, 13A mains cable. My MOSFET dropped 0.24V and the wiring lost 0.25V so I only managed to get 11.35V at the bed terminals. It still took a long time to get to 120C, but I wanted it at 140C so I switched to a 17V PSU and now it warms up very quickly!

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 03:23AM
How should I connect a variable power supply to the RAMPs if it does not support more than 12V?
I thought to buy one like yours [http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AVAIR-AV-825Z-POWER-SUPPLY-0-24-VOLTS-UP-21-AMPS-/370554553636?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_SpecialistRadioEquipment_SM&hash=item5646c5c524#ht_656wt_906]

or maybe what do you think about this second one?

[www.lowpricerc.com]

All comments are welcome! smiling smiley Thanks
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 04:01AM
RAMPS does support more than 12 Volts. What it is a problem is if you go beyond 20 volts AND your Mega is powered from that voltage too (D1 is soldered).

But you do not need an adjustable or regulated power supply for this (this gets expensive). As nophead mentions, PC power supplies will give you enough voltage if you put a dummy load on 5V and 3.3V rails. But if you go for a higher voltage power supply look for at least 150W.

misan
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 04:36AM
I think I'll get a normal PC PSU ATX with 12V and 20/30A.

I don't know too much about electronics so, could someone explain me a little what's a "dummy load", what does it do? where can I find it?

Thks
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brnrd
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 08:15AM
You can use a 10 ohm resistor that can handle a minimum of 1/2 A (2.5W min) as a dummy load. In the USA, you can buy a wirewound resistor with such ratings from a local radio shack: [www.radioshack.com].
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 02:51PM
If I'm using a ATX power supply like this: [www.ebay.com]

How do I install those wirewound resistors? Do I need to install them in all the 3.3V and 5V rails?
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 03:14PM
Just one resistor between 5V(red wires) and GND (black wires) and another one between 3.3V and GND should show you some improvement. 12V 50W halogen lamps are another choice for dummy loads.

misan
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brnrd
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 14, 2011 11:36PM
I only have a dummy load on the +5V rail on mine and it works fine.
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 15, 2011 05:38AM
Thanks for the info, I'll try it with the new powe supply.

I tried to connect my current PSU 12V/20A ONLY for the PCB MK1 heated bed (nothing else) and after 30minutes connected with pronterface it just got 69ºC!! That's so "cool" to print with ABS. I hope the next power supply (12V/30A) can get the 110ºC and leave the current PSU just for the motors input connections.
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 15, 2011 05:45AM
You have to measure what is the voltage fall on the cable from the supply to the board. If more than 0.4 volts then you definitely have to change the wiring for a thicker one.

Of course, it may well be a problem of your supply voltage to be to low to start with, due to an unbalance load (only loading 12v rail but not 5 or 3.3v as it was mentioned before).

misan
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pikelo
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 15, 2011 05:48AM
As I soldered the current wires to the PCB board, how do I un-solder them if I want to change for a thicker one?

I'll search on ebay and see If I can find some "dummy loads" and try them also.
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
December 15, 2011 05:58AM
You can use your soldering iron to detach the old wires, just heat up the solder joints and pull the wires out once tin is melted.

misan
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wheelee
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
June 06, 2012 01:55AM
What was the wiring problem with you psu? I'm having the same problem and I can't figure it out.
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Mike Robertson
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
July 16, 2012 08:38PM
i had issues with Z motors acting weird and i poked around fourms looking for software fix, maybe hardware issue, then i started swapping motor connections around on my ramps board to find where the problem moved to, and figured that it was somewhere on the ramps board at the z axis, so i took a close look and decided maybe it was flux, so out with teh toothbrush and alcohol and scrub scrub scrub, and while scrubing i discovered 2 poorly soldered pins on the stepper motor header (one was moving freely up and down in the hole, so out with the soldering iron and touch up some pins and take a close look at the others while im at it
=)
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Etherlord
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 26, 2012 08:24AM
Hi all smiling smiley
i have a trouble with my motors. they all don`t move. only x-axis motor doing a strange "crank crank" , but i wired them guided by that scheme ( [reprap.org] ) sad smiley

and then i run a ReplicatorG and move "Z-axis" manualy (by my hand) - in control panel seems it like "X-axis" moved O_O.

what i need to do? and can someone give me a true wired scheme if wiki`s not real.

P.S. Sorry for my english, i know - it`s horribleeye popping smiley
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 26, 2012 08:27AM
Maybe the problem is not the cabling but the speed values. If motors move ok when done manually and not when trying to print is is quite likely it is a problem the z-axis speed. You can limit the maxim speed in your firmware. It should not be faster than what your hardware can handle.
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Etherlord
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 26, 2012 08:35AM
misan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe the problem is not the cabling but the speed
> values. If motors move ok when done manually and
> not when trying to print is is quite likely it is
> a problem the z-axis speed. You can limit the
> maxim speed in your firmware. It should not be
> faster than what your hardware can handle.


manualy i mean - mechanicaly moved by hand, not by software sad smiley
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 26, 2012 08:42AM
Sorry I misunderstood your statement.

"crank crank" sound typically suggest steps are being lost. Stepper motors that cannot overcome the forces that oppose it turning will attempt to turn but fail.

If you can move it by hand it likely means it is not too hard to turn, so I would guess you need to rise the current in z-axis pololu by turning the potentiometer clockwise (try with 1/4 turn increments).
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Etherlord
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 29, 2012 06:10AM
misan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If you can move it by hand it likely means it is
> not too hard to turn, so I would guess you need to
> rise the current in z-axis pololu by turning the
> potentiometer clockwise (try with 1/4 turn
> increments).
Thank you for helping me smiling smiley

but this not helped =(
motors still don`t move.
i can`t understand what i do wrong =\
i`m try to use a Pronterface - but it don`t connect at all.

i try to search for "basic test" code - but i`m fail here to - where i can take it? - found =)
and - how i can test manualy my motors?

p.s. i think i need a signature "Sorry for my english" smiling smiley
p.p.s. my specs: Makerfarm prusa, ReplicatorG (and intsalled 3.5v firmware for 2.4 mightyboard with arduino mega 2560) and arduino 1.0.1 itself smiling smiley

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2012 07:43AM by Etherlord.
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Etherlord
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 29, 2012 07:59AM
ah shi... i start thinking that i`m a dumbass - with " basic test : - z-axis move alright and extruder - x and y do "crank crank" but i take only 11A with ATX connector - i think i do it wrong -
do i need 2 cables from atx 11A and another 2 from another 5A connector?
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misan
Re: Motors don't move RAMPs 1.4 + Arduino Mega 2560 + Sprinter Kliment + Pronterface
October 29, 2012 08:06AM
Motors should move without reaching 5A current limit. Only a single 2 wires from your power supply should work.

the repetitive sound on your x and y axis seems to be caused by these drivers not providing enough current (or too much). Yes, both cases may create a similar condition though it sounds weird. Unless cabling is wrong (which I assume it is not as your z-axis is working) I think you need to adjust the potentiometers on x and y so motors move properly.
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