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Correctly setting pots on pololus.

Posted by BloomingtonMike 
Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 15, 2013 01:39PM
I need help Correctly setting trim pots on pololus. I have some crazy stuff happening to my prints.

I have stepping up to left (not a ramp but like a step is off). Other times it goes crazy and randomly places the zozzle somewhere for a layer.

I have played with the pololu trim pots. I cant seem to get it right randomly. If I turn up too much the ddrives click - I can feel it in the belts and couplers.

any advice - it is driving me nuts!!bloomingtonmike

Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:04 pm
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Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 15, 2013 03:12PM
Do you have the specs for the steppers you're using? Assuming you're using A4988 pololu's the vref should be set to 40% of the current rating of the stepper.

[reprap.org]
[www.pololu.com]


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 15, 2013 03:28PM
The motors are 42BYGHW811 and they say 2.3amp 1.8degree and they are 4 wire and their site says (progware.com is where I got them) 4240 g-cm low torque and 4800g-cm at 2.5 amp.

I have the black A4988 pololus with small heatsinks on them.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 15, 2013 04:46PM
I hate to tell you this, but those A4988 pololu's don't really have the grunt to push those steppers around. You've got a couple of choices. Either:

1.) Step up to a different driver. You might need to go up to a high-end driver like a THB6064AH solution if you really want to keep the steppers (I've seen them interfaced to RAMPS before and it looks like they work pretty well). But at around $35 each that can get expensive. You might try a DRV8825 based chip. Pololu sells them. I'm running Panucatt's version on my X and Y now and I've been really pleased. Supposedly they can drive up to 2.5A with sufficient additional cooling. I haven't been able to verify that though.

2.) Get a different stepper. Just make sure the stepper doesn't draw more than 1.5 ~ 1.6A if you want to keep the 4988 Blacks.

As a stop-gap, do you have a fan blowing on the drivers? That may help a little bit. And no fast moves.


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 16, 2013 07:26AM
I have those exact motors and they are working fine with my pololu stepper drivers.

They were not happy with the stepstick drivers, but the pololus drive them well.

I will take measurements of my current settings, I set the current via trial-and-error - I turned them up until the motors didnt stall, then gave an extra 15 degree turn up. Working well for over 1 year, heatsinks and fan are on my stepper drivers but the fan is just extra insurance (they run without the fan as well, though I havn't run more than an hour or two without the fan).
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 16, 2013 07:53AM
Really? My steppers draw 1.7A and the pololu's stalled at every chance, even with heatsinks and a fan pointed at them. I'm driving a 12x12 heated bed, so that may be the difference.


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 17, 2013 11:11AM
I am using 23s rated at 2a for my z axis only. They won't be running fast, but there are 2 of them. Anybody have this working on an A4988 (3d gadgets)? Also, might it help to turn up the off time a bit?(these are the drivers with 2 pots)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 01:28PM by Maxx Mayhem.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 17, 2013 03:28PM
Alright, I decided that 4 amps (combined rating on the 2 23s I'll be using on Z) is beyond the margin of error on my pololus,. and have ordered a kit to build a THB6064AH. I'm assuming I can run both motors on this in parallel. If anybody has this config, could you please let me know how to hook it up to my Z on my ramps 1.4, without affecting the other axis. Thank you.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 17, 2013 04:56PM
Just measured my drivers and the results are:
0.685v - Z
0.689v - Y
0.744v - X

This gets me reliable 750mm/s/s acceleration and 180mm/s movement on my wantai 42byghw811 motors. It goes faster but will occasionally skip a step (probably a jerk setting, but my plastic wont lay down at 180mm/s and stick well, so my moves are the only 180mm/s that I do in daily printing.

I have heatsinks and a computer fan blowing directly on my RAMPS board.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 17, 2013 07:01PM
Maxx:

Have you thought about wiring your Z motors in series (1x current, 2x voltage) rather than parallel as is the default (2x current, 1x voltage)? This MAY get around your current issue, though still at 2A draw, you might be pushing the pololu form factor (except maybe with the DRV8825's - I've not played with them yet so YMMV).

Other option is to buy a decent stand-alone stepper controller/driver and use that just for the Z. you'll have to pull Z Step, Dir and Enable out from the pololu header yourself to go to the stepper controller/driver.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 18, 2013 12:23AM
I think I may have found the issue. I have an Ord bot that uses belts to move carriages on Makerslide. The belt is captured in a block on the back side of the X and Y carriages. Well the belt was SLIPPING through the block on the X carriage!! This is why I was seeing the issue only on the X axis. The Y belt I secured more because the black was crappy from teh get go. Well I just added two layers of gorilla tape to the bet and then that compresses in the block. BAM!! Started a owl on a lego print and it is working great.

Just want to say THANKYOU to you guys for teaching me about my pololus!!! I have MUCH better setup pololus now.

I may soon replace the nema17s with something better suited to the pololus!!
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 18, 2013 05:52PM
Thank you Cefier, I put a 6064 based kit on order, there is very little info on connecting it however.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 18, 2013 07:32PM
Which 6064 kit?


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 19, 2013 07:16PM
I found this kit here: [www.ecomorder.com]. I have ordered it, though it is back ordered to the supplier whom I believe is in England. Could be faster for you to get it direct? The page has no webstore accoutriments, but I ordered by paypal. They do host a large tech forum. As such I will keep you posted as to when it shows up. It is diy only, they do not sell it assembled.tongue sticking out smiley
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 19, 2013 07:35PM
I've been wanting to give one of these a go, I've got to finish my mini CNC mill mechanics before I order one for an experiment though. sad smiley

Hoeken has been working with the THB6064AH driver on his open source CNC mill electronics (which look pretty awesome BTW). His github is loaded with goodies.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2013 10:32PM by akhlut.


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 19, 2013 07:58PM
Yeah, that's the one. They come in two flavors, though the small one on the right is the newer version. You want the newest one because 1. the old chip has a problem which can cause electrical damage of some sort when the motor first starts up, and 2. these boards have a capacitor which expands the pulse timing so you don't miss steps, or something like that.
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 20, 2013 01:15PM
I had some breakout boards made up to easily pull the step, dir, etc off of RAMPS and into a standalone stepper driver.

OSH park charged me like $5 for 6 boards.

If you want the files I'll post them to github. /EDIT/ The files are here.

[i.imgur.com]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2013 01:22PM by akhlut.


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 20, 2013 02:13PM
So then that just replaces your pololu and then you can solder on headers and run your cables to the 6064s?
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 20, 2013 02:43PM
yep


- akhlut

Just remember - Iterate, Iterate, Iterate!

[myhomelessmind.blogspot.com]
Re: Correctly setting pots on pololus.
April 20, 2013 08:42PM
hmmm interesting

instead of wiring series or parrallel

you could slightly mod it, draw out the logic pins DIR + EN + STEP, and "copy" this setup to another stepstick (out of ramps). so now using the same set of signals, use 2 stepstick to power 2 steppers. (i have not mod this myself yet, to do this you will need to prolly make it happen on a temp board outside the RAMPs PCB, like an external board)

and for VERY high current consumption steppers (more than 1A with ref to stepsticks), i found that adding larger capacitors do help in terms of stability. [3roomlabs.blogspot.sg]

then there is the micro stepping concerns due to use of correct Rsense on those stepsticks. and if you have good SMD skills, mod R4 to see if PWM frequency does improve stepping grinning smiley

[3roomlabs.blogspot.sg]
[3roomlabs.blogspot.sg]

my SMD skills are bad, i sacrificed a number of stepsticks lol

and of course the famous equation
Vref = A(stepper current) x 8 x Rsense

1.5volts = 2A x 8 x Rsense (=0.093ohms), i think you can use 0.1ohm Rsense if you use a Vmot voltage of 24-28v, cos when you use this voltage, Vref tends to go up to 1.65v. (or maybe this is an unintended flaw?)
it could be a good idea to know what Rsense values you have, like a certain stepstick i got, i assumed it was 0.05 ohm, but it wasnt, always good to check, you never know.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2013 08:48PM by redreprap.


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