Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid.
Posted by Gaou
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. December 10, 2015 05:56AM |
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dc42
..the Ethernet interface supporting DuetWebControl. And the native USB interface. And the software-controlled stepper motor currents. And the higher stepper motor drive current thanks to better stepper driver cooling. And the extra processing power that provides smoother stepper motor operation. And the capability to turn up the PSU voltage if the bed heater turns out to be underpowered. And not having to rebuild and re-upload the firmware every time I want to change the firmware configuration.
Yes the duet has more capabilities but none of those are a necessary to make a functional 3d printer. And yes it might(!) be possible that for that euro 37 maybe the RAMPS or the LCD or the MEGA or the Drivers are crap but till this moment had no issues with them on my printer or Lyman based filament extruder, except for that stupid fixed 16 microstep on the RAMPS
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. December 10, 2015 05:58AM |
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Frans@France
except for that stupid fixed 16 microstep on the RAMPS
There is no fixed microstepping on the ramps. Remove the jumpers if you need less.
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. December 16, 2015 06:59PM |
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dc42
You will need to add an SD card socket to the RAMPS in order to get good print quality.
Hi, could you explain? Do you mean printing should be done from the SD card and not over USB? Would poor print quality result because the USB didn't pass data reliably? I'm just guessing why this might be because I obviously don't know
. Thanks.New browser from the creator of Opera: [vivaldi.com]
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. December 17, 2015 04:50AM |
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Garry Bartsch
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dc42
You will need to add an SD card socket to the RAMPS in order to get good print quality.
Hi, could you explain? Do you mean printing should be done from the SD card and not over USB? Would poor print quality result because the USB didn't pass data reliably? I'm just guessing why this might be because I obviously don't know
Yes. Some people report that using a dedicated host PC or RPi feeding the USB data to the printer, they can keep up the data fate sufficiently. Other people report that even using an RPi running Octoprint, they can't. The USB-over-serial without hardware or driver-level flow control is a piece of atrocious design (I suspect it wasn't designed, it just happened because that is all the Arduino Mega provides).
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. December 20, 2015 02:54PM |
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dc42
Quote
Garry Bartsch
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dc42
You will need to add an SD card socket to the RAMPS in order to get good print quality.
Hi, could you explain? Do you mean printing should be done from the SD card and not over USB? Would poor print quality result because the USB didn't pass data reliably? I'm just guessing why this might be because I obviously don't know
Yes. Some people report that using a dedicated host PC or RPi feeding the USB data to the printer, they can keep up the data fate sufficiently. Other people report that even using an RPi running Octoprint, they can't. The USB-over-serial without hardware or driver-level flow control is a piece of atrocious design (I suspect it wasn't designed, it just happened because that is all the Arduino Mega provides).
Thank you for writing. Sorry for my delay.
I connect to my Mendel90 from PC over USB and I have very rarely experienced interruptions. My understanding was these disruptions were caused by a earth/ground loop (?) and I didn't realize it could be insufficient data rate.
Does RAMPS possibly receive data more slowly than the Melzi that comes with the Mendel90?
I plan to use RAMPS on my new machine (convenience and price) but because of a disability I can't be transferring an SD card back and forth.
New browser from the creator of Opera: [vivaldi.com]
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. January 06, 2016 07:43AM |
Just regarding the prices... From China one can get MUCH cheaper overall solution - with all the downsides of the China production, of course.
Like:
- Mega 2560 R3 for 5.64EUR
- RAMPS 1.4 board for 4.04 EUR
- 5 stepper drivers including heatsinks for 5.47 EUR
Overall cost of 15.15 EUR.
Just take care about the fuses and the power source
Like:
- Mega 2560 R3 for 5.64EUR
- RAMPS 1.4 board for 4.04 EUR
- 5 stepper drivers including heatsinks for 5.47 EUR
Overall cost of 15.15 EUR.
Just take care about the fuses and the power source
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. January 06, 2016 07:15PM |
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rklauco
Just regarding the prices... From China one can get MUCH cheaper overall solution - with all the downsides of the China production, of course.
Like:
- Mega 2560 R3 for 5.64EUR
- RAMPS 1.4 board for 4.04 EUR
- 5 stepper drivers including heatsinks for 5.47 EUR
Overall cost of 15.15 EUR.
Just take care about the fuses and the power source
The sad thing is that an all-in-one board with a 32-bit processor, proper USB port, four or five properly-cooled driver chips (not useless stick-on heatsinks) and an adequate 5V regulator would cost significantly less to produce in the same numbers than that Arduino/RAMPS/drivers combination, and should therefore cost even less than 15.15 EUR. But we're stuck with Arduino/RAMPS at the low-cost end until customers demand something better.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. January 07, 2016 02:36AM |
Customers DO demand something better, but seems the EU/US manufacturers fails to understand what it is consumers want.Quote
dc42
Quote
rklauco
Just regarding the prices... From China one can get MUCH cheaper overall solution - with all the downsides of the China production, of course.
Like:
- Mega 2560 R3 for 5.64EUR
- RAMPS 1.4 board for 4.04 EUR
- 5 stepper drivers including heatsinks for 5.47 EUR
Overall cost of 15.15 EUR.
Just take care about the fuses and the power source
The sad thing is that an all-in-one board with a 32-bit processor, proper USB port, four or five properly-cooled driver chips (not useless stick-on heatsinks) and an adequate 5V regulator would cost significantly less to produce in the same numbers than that Arduino/RAMPS/drivers combination, and should therefore cost even less than 15.15 EUR. But we're stuck with Arduino/RAMPS at the low-cost end until customers demand something better.
RepRap Pro died beause of it. Not because of deflating 3D market, but because they FAILED to understand the majoriy of people do not want a 3D printer in order to make a second 3D printer. Nor do they want flimsy printed parts, but something slick like aluminum, dibond or similar. Also needs to LOOK good. Not some davinci machine. Those days are over.
Most people actually do NOT want an RJ45 plug... we want wifi.
Consumers do not want crimp-on solutions. We want either screw terminals (I do know some drawbacks here, but then scale them as needed for bed) or preassembled wires. At the very least a bundle of the needed connectors MUST be included, as it is impossible to find for normal people.
Normal people do not own a crimping Tool anyway. If they do get a crimping Tool it is a real chore to do unless you are an Expert at it (I own one and crimp a good deal for Work and in private)
Consumers do not want to be force-fed 1 or display. We want options.
Consumers gets confused by the new 3.3v of some 32bit boards as all the aux options for Ramps are 5v,so for normal people it Means they can't port to new hardware.... and can't even find aux options for the new hardware - like PT100 and thermocoupler amplifier boards.... it MIGHT be possible somehow, but I havn't found that out yet, and I have asked and searched around a lot. (think3dprint3d and asked youdc42) - you might even have answered, but not in a way a normal non-Electronics person can understand.
Ramps have it's drawbacks for sure, but it is unbeatable in its versatility.
Edit:
BQ is one Company that has evolved with its Hephestos. It was originally with lots of printed parts, where people could replicate it relatively simply.
Now they have this very sleek aluminium machine, Yes, you can't print it anymore, but the current consumerbase doesn't care about it. They want stability and something that looks and feels nice as well.
It's still Open Source.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 02:50AM by dintid.
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Re: Wishing to buy a ramps but i am afraid. January 07, 2016 04:41AM |
Quote
dintid
Customers DO demand something better, but seems the EU/US manufacturers fails to understand what it is consumers want.Quote
dc42
Quote
rklauco
Just regarding the prices... From China one can get MUCH cheaper overall solution - with all the downsides of the China production, of course.
Like:
- Mega 2560 R3 for 5.64EUR
- RAMPS 1.4 board for 4.04 EUR
- 5 stepper drivers including heatsinks for 5.47 EUR
Overall cost of 15.15 EUR.
Just take care about the fuses and the power source
The sad thing is that an all-in-one board with a 32-bit processor, proper USB port, four or five properly-cooled driver chips (not useless stick-on heatsinks) and an adequate 5V regulator would cost significantly less to produce in the same numbers than that Arduino/RAMPS/drivers combination, and should therefore cost even less than 15.15 EUR. But we're stuck with Arduino/RAMPS at the low-cost end until customers demand something better.
RepRap Pro died beause of it. Not because of deflating 3D market, but because they FAILED to understand the majoriy of people do not want a 3D printer in order to make a second 3D printer. Nor do they want flimsy printed parts, but something slick like aluminum, dibond or similar. Also needs to LOOK good. Not some davinci machine. Those days are over.
Most people actually do NOT want an RJ45 plug... we want wifi.
Consumers do not want crimp-on solutions. We want either screw terminals (I do know some drawbacks here, but then scale them as needed for bed) or preassembled wires. At the very least a bundle of the needed connectors MUST be included, as it is impossible to find for normal people.
Normal people do not own a crimping Tool anyway. If they do get a crimping Tool it is a real chore to do unless you are an Expert at it (I own one and crimp a good deal for Work and in private)
Consumers do not want to be force-fed 1 or display. We want options.
Consumers gets confused by the new 3.3v of some 32bit boards as all the aux options for Ramps are 5v,so for normal people it Means they can't port to new hardware.... and can't even find aux options for the new hardware - like PT100 and thermocoupler amplifier boards.... it MIGHT be possible somehow, but I havn't found that out yet, and I have asked and searched around a lot. (think3dprint3d and asked youdc42) - you might even have answered, but not in a way a normal non-Electronics person can understand.
Ramps have it's drawbacks for sure, but it is unbeatable in its versatility.
You have some good point there, but I'll take you up on a couple of them:
- In their Ormerod 2 and Fisher kits (and I suspect their Duet-based Huxlety and Mendel kits too), RepRapPro did supply premade cables.
- 5V electronics is on the way out because most new chips are 3.3V. For example, if you want to connect a thermocouple chip to a RAMPS using a digital interface (which is more accurate than using an analog interface), you need to find a thermocouple amplifier board using the discontinued MAX6675 chip, because the newer MAX31855 chip is 3.3V only.
- Connecting a thermocouple to a Duet has been possible for a while, you need a MAX31855 board (readily available on eBay for a few £ or $) and Dan Newman's fork of RepRapFirmware. My latest fork also includes his thermocouple code.
Connecting a PT100 to a Duet using a digital (not analog) thermocouple interface board will soon be possible, using a MAX31865 board such as this one [www.ebay.co.uk]. I have one on order so that I can add the necessary support to RRF.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2016 04:43AM by dc42.
Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod
Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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