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Firmware again!

Posted by hexitex 
Re: Firmware again!
March 28, 2011 09:52PM
Exactly its NOT a RAMPS issue and what I'm saying is everyone has to overcome these hurdles. It may be that you are expecting to much from the hostware/firmware at this point. So start doing some debugging and do some reading/posting in the appropriate firmware/hostware threads so the next person does not end up where you are, this is a opensource project that is supported by people volunteering. If everyone just complained we wouldn't even have a tool chain at all.

As for working tool chain.

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> natetrue has a git account with what I
> assume is a working combination of replicatorG and
> tonokip firmware. They can be found here
> [github.com] and here
> [github.com] . Its
> hard to find as he did not fork them so they are
> not in repG's tree or tonokips tree, but hey it is
> on my list of "will try" if I can not get teacup
> to work with replicatorG.
Re: Firmware again!
March 28, 2011 11:56PM
hexitex Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cool, then show me a working windows toolchain if
> it is that simple. It 100% isn't. I can adjust pin
> assignments till the cows come home but it will
> not help me in actually completing a print. to put
> it simply the socket code is fcuked.

I run RepSnapper, RAMPS, and the Tonokip firmware on Windows 7 with no issues whatsoever. I do have to disconnect and reconnect the Arduino board each time I run RepSnapper, but I think that's an Arduino/Windows issue more than anything else. I have run many multi-hour prints with no problems. Like what was mentioned, RAMPS is simply an interface, and I have never seen an issue with a Pololu stepper driver like that.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2011 11:57PM by NewPerfection.


Cameron

Help improve the RepRap wiki!
Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing.
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Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 12:08AM
what arduino mega are you using, sounds like the new 2560, until they get that fixed i will use my older mega, though the more ram for buffering would have been nice.


[mike-mack.blogspot.com]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 01:30AM
dissidence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what arduino mega are you using, sounds like the
> new 2560, until they get that fixed i will use my
> older mega, though the more ram for buffering
> would have been nice.

Yeah, I'm running the 2560 Uno version. I may end up flashing the USB chip to see if that clears up the connectivity issue, but for now it's not much of a hassle to just unplug and replug in if I re-run RepSnapper.


Cameron

Help improve the RepRap wiki!
Just click "Edit" in the top-right corner of the page and start typing.
Anyone can edit the wiki!
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 01:59AM
It will be great if everybody can focus on firmware/software issue and non OS troll each OS has it advantage and inconvenient.

hexitex has some good points, when I started the project I knew what I was putting myself into, but I really though the hard part was going to be Hardware in my case, which was actually not since the documentation is really well done. It's clear, you may have to dig around for the steppers. The electronic I choosed the easy way, yes not every body can make they own circuit using acid in they living room. I made my first print with no issue on RAMPS + repsnapper + stl file (it was actually the ubuntu logo ^^) anyway it was far of being of quality, but it worked!

So I wanted to do more, and now all the issue are happening, skeinforge is.... I have strictly no idea what to do with skeinforge, I use the profile/alteration of ultimachine(http://ultimachine.com/content/mendel-notes) but the gcode doesnt produced doesn't work with repsnapper...

hexitex is complening about that there is no stable software under Windows, and you guys are saying you should use Linux! Well there is no stable software under linux either, i have linux in a VM an on another computer and I have the same issue.
repsnapper gcode sucks, and gcode made my skeinforge doesnt work on repsnapper.

Hoooo and best part, last week I re-upload Tonokip firmware from github, to try to print like I did the first time and nothing works... why because someone change some variable on the RAMPS settings for the version 1.0, but i'm using the 1.1 and you can go check the reprap wiki, there is nothing about that.

Today my printer is fully working, but it's totally handicaped by the software. Which is ironic beacause I'm a Software Engineer (C++, Objective-C, Java, PHP, #net, etc...).
Like I said before, I'll be happy to help, but have no idea where to start since there is nothing "stable" to upgrade. Also knowing how to develop a software doesn't mean you know what you printer need to do in order to print, how many steps to move, angle, etc...
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 04:37AM
zzarbi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I use the
> profile/alteration of
> ultimachine(http://ultimachine.com/content/mendel-
> notes) but the gcode doesnt produced doesn't work
> with repsnapper...

Sounds like possibly you did not select the profile in Skeinforge, there should be a button by profile at the top. Select the profile name you want. I use the profile you linked to generate gcodes and send them with RepSnapper. You will have to tweak the profile for your environment and get your bed level, etc. But, it should print half decent without modification with a 0.5mm extruder. Linux/Windows/Mac this tool chain works for many many users. There are RepSnapper builds that work best for Linux, windows, and mac linked from the wiki. Pick the one that suits your system.

> someone change some variable on the RAMPS settings
> for the version 1.0, but i'm using the 1.1 and you
> can go check the reprap wiki, there is nothing
> about that.

I don't see any reversion in pin definitions in the firmwares linked from the RAMPS wiki page. You probably downloaded the original version of Tonokip_Firmware (written before there was any versions of RAMPS and the pins are defined for Tonok's Mendel, NOT currently maintained). Start with the firmware forks linked from the RAMPS wiki page.

Also there are extensive instructions for the RepRap host software which is another multi-platform option with it's own benefits.
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 09:40AM
Whey hey... ..

Why dont we just start collating working combinations!!
I have listed Just one working combination... in my post to this thread.
If I get / find another combination I will post it... (not sure where yet lets find a simple way to do this)

Software and Firmware development by their very nature will need to have frozen points in time where development is frozen to produce a woking configuration. This is a standard development cycle process.

We do not have a process to do this.. but we have many users with working configurations.
Lets us as a start to making some kind of process to resolve this problem.
Just ask the users to provide the reprap comuinity with intances of know to be working combinations.

Lets "Keep It Simple" .... a simple sultion is far better than trying to create a new process to handle the development cycle that is moving in various diffrent directions.

Im not sure how we can make this table or list of known to be working combinations of Hostware & Firmware.

So we need to decide a way to :'-

A.. Store the list/table of working combintaions.
B.. Store these frozen working combintaions for users to down load in 1 zip file.

This all needs to be a seperate enity to the code within the development cycle.

Diversity of host software diversity of firmware is a good thing it will generate new ideas and better methods that can benifit everyone within the comunity. We must not discorage inovative developers and developments.

Things like Pin settings and configurations for particular hardware can be added to this New repository of working combinations. Developers will only have their hardware so can't be expected to second guess other combinations.

May be we set up a system that can be used to count the number of sucessfull users of these working combintaions.

This could work like this download the zip see it working on your hardware then add your vote saying you have it working.

Maybe have a graph showing the most popular combination..

Excuse my Dyslixic spelling theres bound to be plenty..


Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board BIQ Stepcon BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting Print It Stick It Cut it


My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 09:45AM
O.K. - My working combination is...

Electronics: Gen3
Firmware: RepRap firmware 20100806
Host Software: RepRap Host 20100806
Slicer Program: SF39 (Skeinforge)


Bob Morrison
W├Ârth am Rhein, Germany
"Luke, use the source!"
BLOG - PHOTOS - Thingiverse
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 12:39PM
johnnyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like possibly you did not select the
> profile in Skeinforge, there should be a button by
> profile at the top. Select the profile name you
> want. I use the profile you linked to generate
> gcodes and send them with RepSnapper. You will
> have to tweak the profile for your environment and
> get your bed level, etc. But, it should print half
> decent without modification with a 0.5mm extruder.
> Linux/Windows/Mac this tool chain works for many
> many users. There are RepSnapper builds that work
> best for Linux, windows, and mac linked from the
> wiki. Pick the one that suits your system.
No, No! I did select the profile PLA that ultimachine made. Now When I import the gcode into repsnapper i get the following picture: [img718.imageshack.us]
I didn't want to try printing... Anyway it's simple any gcode I load with repsnapper (linux OR windows) doesn't show up correctly with repsnapper, it's always out of the BED, or on the bed but way up on the Z axis.

>
> I don't see any reversion in pin definitions in
> the firmwares linked from the RAMPS wiki page. You
> probably downloaded the original version of
> Tonokip_Firmware (written before there was any
> versions of RAMPS and the pins are defined for
> Tonok's Mendel, NOT currently maintained). Start
> with the firmware forks linked from the RAMPS wiki
> page.
>
> Also there are extensive instructions for the
> RepRap host software which is another
> multi-platform option with it's own benefits.
Actually my first print was in December, the setting were change January:
(set endstop default config for RRSOES)
[github.com]

What is RRSOES? No-Idea
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 01:48PM
BodgeIt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A.. Store the list/table of working combintaions.
> B.. Store these frozen working combintaions for
> users to down load in 1 zip file.
>
> This all needs to be a seperate enity to the code
> within the development cycle.

I agree. We need to get this done ASAP and I will help. Do you think we should append to this page [reprap.org] , or start a new one.
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 02:14PM
i vote for a new one with a title close too working tool for hardware, they you could devide it up for the hardware a little better i think

ie RAMPS
gen 6
makerbot.... ect


[mike-mack.blogspot.com]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 02:34PM
Nicolas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, No! I did select the profile PLA that
> ultimachine made. Now When I import the gcode into
> repsnapper i get the following picture:
> [img718.imageshack.us]
> I didn't want to try printing... Anyway it's
> simple any gcode I load with repsnapper (linux OR
> windows) doesn't show up correctly with
> repsnapper, it's always out of the BED, or on the
> bed but way up on the Z axis.

Oh, I see! To be clearer: Do you have PLA4043D011711S39 selected as the name of the profile in skeinforge? There is a PLA profile that ships with skeinforge.

Can you attach the gcode file from your screen capture for review?

> setting were change January:
> (set endstop default config for RRSOES)
> [github.com]
> /933c0b69b17491ec991251c51fbd58267cf83154
>
> What is RRSOES? No-Idea

I am responsible for the configuration change. The RRSOES is RepRap Source Opto endstop. It is changed because the opto switch that was most commonly used is no longer produced. I apologize for the confusion the firmware configuration change caused.

The truth is that we are very much working on a fast moving target. I think BodgeIt's suggestion will help.
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 03:10PM
I found this usefull page [reprap.org]

This could be a starting place as it covers all of the Firmware and Hostware.

It also seems to provide a lot more usfull information regarding functionality and compatability.

It just hasn't got a table matching up working combinations and versions of the two parts of the system.

Maybe adding under the related heading this.. [[Users working tool chains]] with download links.

Im not sure how we can make this page easier to find in the WIKI tho..


Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board BIQ Stepcon BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting Print It Stick It Cut it


My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 03:15PM
I found that page once before and could never find it again. Thanks
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 05:27PM
Exactly... I opend 20+ wiki pages before I found it again.. I have now stuck it on my watch list...


Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board BIQ Stepcon BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting Print It Stick It Cut it


My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 07:38PM
thats a good page to add a know working tool chain too, or from that page on the bottom the my tool chain would be a good place too.


[mike-mack.blogspot.com]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 10:25PM
johnnyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, I see! To be clearer: Do you have
> PLA4043D011711S39 selected as the name of the
> profile in skeinforge? There is a PLA profile that
> ships with skeinforge.
Yes I did choose the profile PLA4043D011711S39 not the original PLA profile that come with skeinforge


> Can you attach the gcode file from your screen
> capture for review?
Here the gcode I get with skeinforge 39 and the previous PLA profile: [www.gamefront.com]
Also the previous picture is when I load it with RepRapBeta (http://www.kulitorum.com/RepSnapperBeta.rar)


> I am responsible for the configuration change. The
> RRSOES is RepRap Source Opto endstop. It is
> changed because the opto switch that was most
> commonly used is no longer produced. I apologize
> for the confusion the firmware configuration
> change caused.
The issue is not that it's change, the issue is that there are no information about it.
So I guess now there are different version of optos?
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 10:52PM
I try to get the gcode of [www.thingiverse.com]
Here the gcode generated by skeinforge 39 with ultimachine profile [www.gamefront.com]
Here what repsnapperBeta show me [img856.imageshack.us]
Re: Firmware again!
March 29, 2011 11:44PM
zzarbi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I try to get the gcode of
> [www.thingiverse.com]
> Here the gcode generated by skeinforge 39 with
> ultimachine profile
> [www.gamefront.com]
> le_export.gcode
> Here what repsnapperBeta show me
> [img856.imageshack.us]

The gcode file you linked is raising 40mm each Z each layer.

What is set in Skeinforge under Craft->Carve->Layer Thickness
The profile you linked is set to 0.318
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 02:25AM
johnnyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The gcode file you linked is raising 40mm each Z
> each layer.
>
> What is set in Skeinforge under
> Craft->Carve->Layer Thickness
> The profile you linked is set to 0.318

It was set to 0.4mm, I set it back to 0.318 and click save, regenerate a new gcode but it looks the same.
Also as you can see that each layer are separated by 40mm, you can noticed that the full print is not on the "bed" either.

Is there a difference between Skeinforge/perl linux and Skeinforge/Perl windows ?
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 10:52AM
It's nice to see that this thread has created some activity for the issues us new kids are having, but as you can see from zzarbi's problems things are so hard. So a big thank you to you guys - seriouslysmiling smiley

However, I am utterly exhausted with this - I have had to virtually rebuild the printer due to firmware ignoring endstop activation, seems that only G28 is catered for - all other homing operations try and break the printer. Instances where the packet is corrupted but still accepted and z is told to go to a silly place say -250 (seems that homing.code also defaults to this in SF40) really does break the printer. The z-stage is so highly geared (effectively a powerful worm gear) that it will just keep pushing down, damaging the extruder, bending the bed, bending the y stage bars, the x stage bars and then to top it off the belt on the z stage gets pulled so hard that gets ripped off! So that z stage endstop code being ignored pretty much destroys the machine, I just don't understand why firmware will let this happen?
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 12:21PM
Thats why I have the outlet not far so I can disconnect everything before it start doing that. I did however broke one nozzle. I finally buy one of those extruder nozzle at Makergear.

I also have an issue with the extruder when my extruder stepper stops, I will still have some plastic comic out of the nozzle for a good 5minutes. I tried multiple different temperature nothing change :/
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 01:37PM
I think an extra heavyweight NC mechanical endstop on the min zstage hooked in to one of the power lines from the power suppy will do the trick but it's more wires and more mess. I would just like to know why endstops are ignored unless it's a G28?
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 01:59PM
You could also just put some jam nuts on the threaded rods and make a physical stop for the z stage. Once the z stage hits the nuts it will simply stall the motor.
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 02:20PM
that's a better idea, but i'm not taking it apart again - so endstop as a stopgap.
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 03:57PM
The new hardware endstop require additional pin configurations to enable the built in pull up resistors in the ATMega. The opto endstops had a pull up resistor as part of the circuit board so this extra configuration was not required.

Since I started with Repsnapper that did not support G28 (home all) I learned to click each axis home button. Unfortunately, my version of Repsnapper does have a version grinning smiley But it's solid and I like having the full Print and Interactive buttons on the same tab. In support of Repsnapper I have played with Tesla893 (with JohnnyR's updates for the RAMPs pins.h), 5D (not arduino FW, it's AVR FW, as well as different forks of Tonokip). On the slicing side I use Skeinforge. I recently updated to 40, but I had to replace the new Dimension module with the previous since it only supports 5D FW.

So, just listing configurations to me is not "good enough". There needs to be a zip file that has all of the toolchain components in it. Now, does it belong in GIT, in the wiki, I dunno.

-Jay
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 05:24PM
Johnnyr/BodgeIt: Regarding a page on the wiki....

I personally feel that unless we choose a good name for the page, and put all the info there,it will get lost amongst all the other pages and content on the wiki.

That said, the two pages you linked are good info, and whatever page we create should link to those, and be linked off those. That way, anyone hitting those pages will find a way to get this info.

How about 'Known Working Configurations' as a page title?

PS: Given the changes between SF39 and SF40, it would be best to distinguish what people are using there, the value they use for E_STEPS_MM in the firmware they have, and what type of extruder they have, plus nozzle size, in addition to the other stuff people are using. An advantage is that while this info is mainly useful for just working software combos, we can also gauge other info (such as common values for E_STEP_MM), so that people with similar configurations have a place to start. The advantage here is that if the starting point is closer to the "final value", then in theory the tweaking time to get it adjusted should be reduced.

PPS: If we get this page done, I'm happy to go around to a number of pages in the wiki that seem relevant and do all the linking to it (eg: The Commissioning page in the mendel build instructions, the Troubleshooting page, etc).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2011 05:29PM by Cefiar.
Re: Firmware again!
March 30, 2011 08:35PM
how about setting up.... now this is radical.... a new Site!. Sometimes when you find something broken it is better to start again IMHO. There is lots of good content but it is out of control and some of it out of date. Building my machine i was always spending far too much time trying to locate information, read a page, only to find halfway through that i should look at a later design or something. Its there, but takes a bit of finding. A new content resource is a good idea, it will solve a lot of problems as long as the correct ethos and platform is chosen. The forum takes a bit of getting used to as well, (but they are all broken anyway)I know this is time and effort, but I would be willing to help out as I am sure you all would. It should be kept as simple as possible, more like a quick reference for a new kid.

Hosting would be funded by targeted content links to sellers of minerals, electronics, parts, etc. The site should be a comercial so that money can be paid to contributors when there is a need for faster fixes and for their efforts. It just might work, actually it will work, it just needs time and talent.
Re: Firmware again!
March 31, 2011 12:27AM
There is lots of good content but it is out of control and some of it out of date.

... Actually, we're using a wiki so that folk like you can help and make it better when you see a bit that's out of date! grinning smiley

If we start stuffing our documentation into a different website, siloed from reprap.org, then on any given subject we then have two web pages to maintain rather than one web page. Which actually means extra work. People don't like doing extra work to double-document their research, which may lead to the occasional out-of-date wiki page.

Hosting would be funded by targeted content links to sellers of minerals, electronics, parts, etc. The site should be a comercial so that money can be paid to contributors when there is a need for faster fixes and for their efforts. It just might work, actually it will work, it just needs time and talent.

I have noticed that deliberately siloing documentation and community outside of reprap does not actually make reprap's community-driven documentation better. In the same way that it is very difficult to have a potluck when there is no food, it is very difficult to have a library when there are no books, and it very difficult to have a parade without people and floats. smiling bouncing smiley

If you are successful in creating a .com version of reprap, our current .org version of reprap will probably have more out-of-date wiki pages, not fewer.



PPS: If we get this page done, I'm happy to go around to a number of pages in the wiki that seem relevant and do all the linking to it (eg: The Commissioning page in the mendel build instructions, the Troubleshooting page, etc).

Thanks Cefiar. I've added
http://reprap.org/wiki/Basic_Starter_Working_Configurations
and
http://reprap.org/wiki/ReplicatorG-Skeinforge-RAMPS
to this category:
http://reprap.org/wiki/Category:Working_Configuration.

Folk who want to document their Working Configuration can do so by writing it up in a new wiki page,
and then adding the text:

[[Category:Working Configuration]]

to that page to add it to the existing Category page.

I've added a link to [[Category:Working Configuration]] to the CAM Toolchains page.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2011 12:29AM by SebastienBailard.


-Sebastien, RepRap.org library gnome.

Remember, you're all RepRap developers (once you've joined the super-secret developer mailing list), and the wiki, RepRap.org, [reprap.org] is for everyone and everything! grinning smiley
Re: Firmware again!
March 31, 2011 01:54AM
Sebastien: Went through and corrected a formatting issue and the spelling on the Basic Starter Working Configurations page. Gotta actually put in the links, but it's a good template to start from.
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