Bunch of problems with PLA
Posted by eniq1on
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Bunch of problems with PLA May 17, 2012 02:54AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
Prusa+ pronterface+ slic3r+ sprinter+ orange PLA+ heated bed+ glass+ diy hotend
I have tried to print 0.5mm-thin-wall calibration part but i cant get it to stick into glass. Glass is clean and i have tried to use all different heights between nozzle and glass and also in layer height. Also temps different temps, bed 50-70 and extruder 170-190.
When i asked in irc about my problems someone told that try normal printing paper. i got it stick to that and the base was ok but when it was doing 4th or 5th layer it didnt do normal print, in some parts it was more like spitting plastic.
Here is some pics about my problems.
[www.dropbox.com]
Pic 3221 is my best print during this 3 weeks.
I have tried to print 0.5mm-thin-wall calibration part but i cant get it to stick into glass. Glass is clean and i have tried to use all different heights between nozzle and glass and also in layer height. Also temps different temps, bed 50-70 and extruder 170-190.
When i asked in irc about my problems someone told that try normal printing paper. i got it stick to that and the base was ok but when it was doing 4th or 5th layer it didnt do normal print, in some parts it was more like spitting plastic.
Here is some pics about my problems.
[www.dropbox.com]
Pic 3221 is my best print during this 3 weeks.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA May 17, 2012 09:01AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 58 |
How is the humidity where you're printing? I went through a problem a while back where PLA wouldn't stick to glass at any temperature, but the problem was intermittent. I noticed that it was only happening after it rained outside, and when I opened the windows to enjoy the cooler after-rain ari. Now I just keep the windows closed with the A/C running, and I haven't had the problem since.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA May 18, 2012 01:32AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA May 18, 2012 10:07AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 58 |
It did for me. If the humidity in the room where I'm printing gets to ~70% or higher (I'm estimating here), it just curls away from the heated glass and sticks to the print head instead. Below that, it stick great to the heated glass.
Have you tried printing ABS yet? I've found that it's much less sensitive to humidity. The only downside to ABS is that I can't get it to stick to the glass directly. I have to put polyimide tape on the glass first (other people have used other methods, such as painting on a solution of abs that's been dissolved in Acetone).
eniq1on Wrote:
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> Can humidity have so big affect that it wont stick
> at all? Well here where i'm using printer now is
> pretty big humidity level.
Have you tried printing ABS yet? I've found that it's much less sensitive to humidity. The only downside to ABS is that I can't get it to stick to the glass directly. I have to put polyimide tape on the glass first (other people have used other methods, such as painting on a solution of abs that's been dissolved in Acetone).
eniq1on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can humidity have so big affect that it wont stick
> at all? Well here where i'm using printer now is
> pretty big humidity level.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA May 19, 2012 01:53PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 40 |
How do you clean the glass and what do you clean it with?
eniq1on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prusa+ pronterface+ slic3r+ sprinter+ orange PLA+
> heated bed+ glass+ diy hotend
>
> I have tried to print 0.5mm-thin-wall calibration
> part but i cant get it to stick into glass. Glass
> is clean and i have tried to use all different
> heights between nozzle and glass and also in layer
> height. Also temps different temps, bed 50-70 and
> extruder 170-190.
>
> When i asked in irc about my problems someone told
> that try normal printing paper. i got it stick to
> that and the base was ok but when it was doing 4th
> or 5th layer it didnt do normal print, in some
> parts it was more like spitting plastic.
>
>
> Here is some pics about my problems.
>
> [www.dropbox.com]
> =18e630#/
>
> Pic 3221 is my best print during this 3 weeks.
eniq1on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prusa+ pronterface+ slic3r+ sprinter+ orange PLA+
> heated bed+ glass+ diy hotend
>
> I have tried to print 0.5mm-thin-wall calibration
> part but i cant get it to stick into glass. Glass
> is clean and i have tried to use all different
> heights between nozzle and glass and also in layer
> height. Also temps different temps, bed 50-70 and
> extruder 170-190.
>
> When i asked in irc about my problems someone told
> that try normal printing paper. i got it stick to
> that and the base was ok but when it was doing 4th
> or 5th layer it didnt do normal print, in some
> parts it was more like spitting plastic.
>
>
> Here is some pics about my problems.
>
> [www.dropbox.com]
> =18e630#/
>
> Pic 3221 is my best print during this 3 weeks.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA May 21, 2012 02:53AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 02, 2012 12:29PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 02, 2012 04:39PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 123 |
Are you monitoring the temperature in Pronterface? When the spitting or morse printing occurs, has your temperature dropped? Where did you get the PLA? I've tried all the Ultimachine colors and personally found their orange to be the worst as far as consistency of printing is concerned; I can improve the quality of prints by raising the temperature 10 to 15 degrees compared to for example their green transluscent but it still is less than wonderful. I think it may be related to the material they use to color the filament.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 03, 2012 10:16AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
OK updates, now i took more pics about spitting problem. Temperature stays between +-1 when i print. I did new hobbed bolt but i cant say does it slip when spitting happens cause my printing speed is so slow. When i print bottom layer i can do it only with 10mm/s, dont know is this normal so you tell me.
Pics here
[www.dropbox.com]
Pics here
[www.dropbox.com]
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 03, 2012 11:08AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 123 |
My guess after looking at your pictures is that you are trying to push the filament thru the melt zone of your hotend too fast. Increase your temperature 5 or 10 degrees and/or slow down the feed rate to see if that makes a positive change.
Have you checked the filament with calipers to confirm it is both round and uniform in diameter along its length? Poor quality filament could also lead to these types of issues. There is not a lot you can do about that except to tighten the extruder idler down even further.
A quick check for hobbed bolt slipping is to just look at the teeth of the bolt. If you see plastic fragments clogging it, dismantle the extruder and clean out the teeth or else it will continue to slip.
Have you checked the filament with calipers to confirm it is both round and uniform in diameter along its length? Poor quality filament could also lead to these types of issues. There is not a lot you can do about that except to tighten the extruder idler down even further.
A quick check for hobbed bolt slipping is to just look at the teeth of the bolt. If you see plastic fragments clogging it, dismantle the extruder and clean out the teeth or else it will continue to slip.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 03, 2012 12:31PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
WHOAA i did it. First printed part done. Pic will be released later 
Problem was that my springs in extruderbody wasnt tight enough. Now my only problem is to get PLA to stick into glass.
Pics [www.dropbox.com]
Springs was pretty tight but apparently not tight enough now there is bolt which i use to tighten it, lets hope that it wont break.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 12:15AM by eniq1on.
Problem was that my springs in extruderbody wasnt tight enough. Now my only problem is to get PLA to stick into glass.Pics [www.dropbox.com]
Springs was pretty tight but apparently not tight enough now there is bolt which i use to tighten it, lets hope that it wont break.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 12:15AM by eniq1on.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 04, 2012 07:21PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 229 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 05, 2012 11:43AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 05, 2012 12:29PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 14 |
Some glass doesn't work. I remember trying a piece of glass from a picture frame and it wouldn't stick at any temperature. I finally bought this glass and it works great from 50C to 110C.
[www.lulzbot.com]
[www.lulzbot.com]
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 05, 2012 12:50PM |
Admin Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 7,879 |
I have used both borosilicate and picture glass and didn't notice any difference in adhesion but it is about 10 times more expensive, so it would take a lot of breaks to cost as much.
I tend to break glass getting the parts off, rather than due to thermal effects.
[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
I tend to break glass getting the parts off, rather than due to thermal effects.
[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 05, 2012 03:45PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 229 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 06, 2012 02:01PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
Ok now i printed on plexiglass or some and it sticked pretty well. Now problem is that extrusion width is too small. [photos-4.dropbox.com] [www.dropbox.com]
How do i set it right? In slic3r there is extrusion width but how do i set it? If i want 0.5mm width is it 0.5 (wanted width) / 0.3mm(layer height) =1.667?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 02:02PM by eniq1on.
How do i set it right? In slic3r there is extrusion width but how do i set it? If i want 0.5mm width is it 0.5 (wanted width) / 0.3mm(layer height) =1.667?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 02:02PM by eniq1on.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 06, 2012 03:04PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 58 |
Slic3r calculates that automatically by default (and it does a pretty good job of it). It looks to me like you have your filament diameter set too big. For example, if you have the filament diameter set to 1.75 in Slic3r, but your filament is actually 1.72, then you will get too little plastic extruded. Try measuring the diameter of the filament and using the exact diameter in Slic3r.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 09, 2012 04:10AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
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Anonymous User
Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 12, 2012 10:03PM |
aplavins Wrote:
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> I've heard from many people that inexpensive
> filaments produced in china are difficult to work
> with, if not completely unusable. Maybe order some
> 4043 from ultimacine. They are expensive but the
> filament is excellent.
I printed with some hot melt adhesive layer on bed, it worked well on printing, stick to bed tightly, that can seen on my video :
Also i see someone add density medal mesh on the bed also printing PLA well.
I think even materials bad, that as DIY we can do some method to improve , blame to China seems always a good excuse. However, there are no raw materials PLA manufacture in China , PLA original from US or Japan.These two country always remain good in domestic, earn good reputation, bad export to China,
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard from many people that inexpensive
> filaments produced in china are difficult to work
> with, if not completely unusable. Maybe order some
> 4043 from ultimacine. They are expensive but the
> filament is excellent.
I printed with some hot melt adhesive layer on bed, it worked well on printing, stick to bed tightly, that can seen on my video :
Also i see someone add density medal mesh on the bed also printing PLA well.
I think even materials bad, that as DIY we can do some method to improve , blame to China seems always a good excuse. However, there are no raw materials PLA manufacture in China , PLA original from US or Japan.These two country always remain good in domestic, earn good reputation, bad export to China,
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 19, 2012 04:18AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
eniq1on Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok now i can print parts pretty good with slow
> speed. Now problem is that last layer is
> incomplete. It prints it but it looks like its
> printed with fill density 25% or something.
Here is pics about that last layer incomplete problem. Ill use slic3r but if i cant get it to work ill try Sfact.
[www.dropbox.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok now i can print parts pretty good with slow
> speed. Now problem is that last layer is
> incomplete. It prints it but it looks like its
> printed with fill density 25% or something.
Here is pics about that last layer incomplete problem. Ill use slic3r but if i cant get it to work ill try Sfact.
[www.dropbox.com]
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA June 29, 2012 03:30PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
Ok now i have made new bolt for extruder that helped a little about that incomplete prob. Also cheating slic3r about nozzle diameter helped.
Now problem is that my orange PLA from Supply3DPLA.com just wont stick into glass. I have tried bed temp 30-90 with 5 celsius steps but it wont just stick. Now i have to use just plexi without heat.
Now problem is that my orange PLA from Supply3DPLA.com just wont stick into glass. I have tried bed temp 30-90 with 5 celsius steps but it wont just stick. Now i have to use just plexi without heat.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA July 18, 2012 05:58AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 28 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA July 20, 2012 07:08PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 46 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA September 03, 2012 02:47PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 156 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA September 03, 2012 09:45PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 250 |
Has anyone tried sandblashing the glass to make a slightly rougher surface?
(thinking this would help things stick?)
--------------------------------------------------------
Custom all metal CoreXY
- Duet 2 Wifi w/ PanelDue 7i
- 330mm x 360mm x 500mm
- 750w Silicon heater
Custom Mendel90
(Backup printer - Old reliable!) - Sold
(thinking this would help things stick?)
--------------------------------------------------------
Custom all metal CoreXY
- Duet 2 Wifi w/ PanelDue 7i
- 330mm x 360mm x 500mm
- 750w Silicon heater
Custom Mendel90
(Backup printer - Old reliable!) - Sold
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA September 04, 2012 04:00AM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 156 |
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA September 04, 2012 05:29PM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 283 |
I now swear by a 50% mix of PVA glue and water. Paint it onto a clean class bed and let it dry for a few minutes. I print my PLA at 195'C for the first layer and drop to 175'C for the rest. I reaIise that temperatures don't necessarily transfer from one machine to the next but what I'm saying is that the 195'C represents about the hotest I'd want to print at. I usually have my bed at 45'C but I wouldn't have it above 65'C or you will never get the objects off. I'd also refrain from changing the bed temp from first layer to subsequent as the bed and plastic shrink at different rates and this could cause curling.
However, all this said, a good first layer is essential.
Using ABSPrusa Mendel Zaphod with Pronterface and slic3r 1.3.0. Printing well with 3mm PLA and ABS through 2 x J Head Mk IV b and Wade Geared Exruders. Controlled using RAMPS1.4 board running Marlin_v1.1.9
However, all this said, a good first layer is essential.
Using ABSPrusa Mendel Zaphod with Pronterface and slic3r 1.3.0. Printing well with 3mm PLA and ABS through 2 x J Head Mk IV b and Wade Geared Exruders. Controlled using RAMPS1.4 board running Marlin_v1.1.9
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA September 04, 2012 10:25PM |
Registered: 12 years ago Posts: 156 |
I print at those temperatures without PVA glue, on "naked" glass, 45-60 deg C.
I keep the fan off for the first 1-3 layers.
Since beefing up the cooling, however, i've now started experiencing warping on larger, flat bottom objects, so i'm thinking about experimenting with PVA+water too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2012 10:26PM by orcinus.
I keep the fan off for the first 1-3 layers.
Since beefing up the cooling, however, i've now started experiencing warping on larger, flat bottom objects, so i'm thinking about experimenting with PVA+water too.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2012 10:26PM by orcinus.
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Re: Bunch of problems with PLA September 05, 2012 02:21AM |
Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 283 |
I'd make sure you start from the lower bed temperatures to start with or you may have fun removing larger objects from the bed.
orcinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I print at those temperatures without PVA glue, on
> "naked" glass, 45-60 deg C.
> I keep the fan off for the first 1-3 layers.
>
> Since beefing up the cooling, however, i've now
> started experiencing warping on larger, flat
> bottom objects, so i'm thinking about
> experimenting with PVA+water too.
Using ABSPrusa Mendel Zaphod with Pronterface and slic3r 1.3.0. Printing well with 3mm PLA and ABS through 2 x J Head Mk IV b and Wade Geared Exruders. Controlled using RAMPS1.4 board running Marlin_v1.1.9
orcinus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I print at those temperatures without PVA glue, on
> "naked" glass, 45-60 deg C.
> I keep the fan off for the first 1-3 layers.
>
> Since beefing up the cooling, however, i've now
> started experiencing warping on larger, flat
> bottom objects, so i'm thinking about
> experimenting with PVA+water too.
Using ABSPrusa Mendel Zaphod with Pronterface and slic3r 1.3.0. Printing well with 3mm PLA and ABS through 2 x J Head Mk IV b and Wade Geared Exruders. Controlled using RAMPS1.4 board running Marlin_v1.1.9
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