Prusa+ pronterface+ slic3r+ sprinter+ orange PLA+ heated bed+ glass+ diy hotend

I have tried to print 0.5mm-thin-wall calibration part but i cant get it to stick into glass. Glass is clean and i have tried to use all different heights between nozzle and glass and also in layer height. Also temps different temps, bed 50-70 and extruder 170-190.

When i asked in irc about my problems someone told that try normal printing paper. i got it stick to that and the base was ok but when it was doing 4th or 5th layer it didnt do normal print, in some parts it was more like spitting plastic.


Here is some pics about my problems.

[www.dropbox.com]

Pic 3221 is my best print during this 3 weeks.

How is the humidity where you're printing? I went through a problem a while back where PLA wouldn't stick to glass at any temperature, but the problem was intermittent. I noticed that it was only happening after it rained outside, and when I opened the windows to enjoy the cooler after-rain ari. Now I just keep the windows closed with the A/C running, and I haven't had the problem since.

Can humidity have so big affect that it wont stick at all? Well here where i'm using printer now is pretty big humidity level.

It did for me. If the humidity in the room where I'm printing gets to ~70% or higher (I'm estimating here), it just curls away from the heated glass and sticks to the print head instead. Below that, it stick great to the heated glass.

Have you tried printing ABS yet? I've found that it's much less sensitive to humidity. The only downside to ABS is that I can't get it to stick to the glass directly. I have to put polyimide tape on the glass first (other people have used other methods, such as painting on a solution of abs that's been dissolved in Acetone).

eniq1on Wrote:
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> Can humidity have so big affect that it wont stick
> at all? Well here where i'm using printer now is
> pretty big humidity level.

How do you clean the glass and what do you clean it with?


eniq1on Wrote:
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> Prusa+ pronterface+ slic3r+ sprinter+ orange PLA+
> heated bed+ glass+ diy hotend
>
> I have tried to print 0.5mm-thin-wall calibration
> part but i cant get it to stick into glass. Glass
> is clean and i have tried to use all different
> heights between nozzle and glass and also in layer
> height. Also temps different temps, bed 50-70 and
> extruder 170-190.
>
> When i asked in irc about my problems someone told
> that try normal printing paper. i got it stick to
> that and the base was ok but when it was doing 4th
> or 5th layer it didnt do normal print, in some
> parts it was more like spitting plastic.
>
>
> Here is some pics about my problems.
>
> [www.dropbox.com]
> =18e630#/
>
> Pic 3221 is my best print during this 3 weeks.

Now i havent had time to try printing but ill get j-head hot end, then ill try again. And ill clean glass by some window cleaner.

Today i tried with j-head and it worked pretty fine. Plastic didnt stick to glass but it worked well with printing paper. But i got still problem with spitting. When it has printed a while it starts to do morse code. Ill add pics later if i cant fix it.

Are you monitoring the temperature in Pronterface? When the spitting or morse printing occurs, has your temperature dropped? Where did you get the PLA? I've tried all the Ultimachine colors and personally found their orange to be the worst as far as consistency of printing is concerned; I can improve the quality of prints by raising the temperature 10 to 15 degrees compared to for example their green transluscent but it still is less than wonderful. I think it may be related to the material they use to color the filament.

OK updates, now i took more pics about spitting problem. Temperature stays between +-1 when i print. I did new hobbed bolt but i cant say does it slip when spitting happens cause my printing speed is so slow. When i print bottom layer i can do it only with 10mm/s, dont know is this normal so you tell me.


Pics here
[www.dropbox.com]

My guess after looking at your pictures is that you are trying to push the filament thru the melt zone of your hotend too fast. Increase your temperature 5 or 10 degrees and/or slow down the feed rate to see if that makes a positive change.

Have you checked the filament with calipers to confirm it is both round and uniform in diameter along its length? Poor quality filament could also lead to these types of issues. There is not a lot you can do about that except to tighten the extruder idler down even further.

A quick check for hobbed bolt slipping is to just look at the teeth of the bolt. If you see plastic fragments clogging it, dismantle the extruder and clean out the teeth or else it will continue to slip.

WHOAA i did it. First printed part done. Pic will be released later Problem was that my springs in extruderbody wasnt tight enough. Now my only problem is to get PLA to stick into glass.

Pics [www.dropbox.com]

Springs was pretty tight but apparently not tight enough now there is bolt which i use to tighten it, lets hope that it wont break.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2012 12:15AM by eniq1on.

I use 190-210 C for hotend and 90 C for heated bed for the first layer then lower it to 60 C for the rest of the build.

Its not going to stick... loosing my mind with this. tried all temps. Maybe my glass sucks then.

btw my PLA is bought from Supply3DPLA.com if that helps

Some glass doesn't work. I remember trying a piece of glass from a picture frame and it wouldn't stick at any temperature. I finally bought this glass and it works great from 50C to 110C.

[www.lulzbot.com]

I have used both borosilicate and picture glass and didn't notice any difference in adhesion but it is about 10 times more expensive, so it would take a lot of breaks to cost as much.

I tend to break glass getting the parts off, rather than due to thermal effects.

---

[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

I've heard from many people that inexpensive filaments produced in china are difficult to work with, if not completely unusable. Maybe order some 4043 from ultimacine. They are expensive but the filament is excellent.

Ok now i printed on plexiglass or some and it sticked pretty well. Now problem is that extrusion width is too small. [photos-4.dropbox.com] [www.dropbox.com]
How do i set it right? In slic3r there is extrusion width but how do i set it? If i want 0.5mm width is it 0.5 (wanted width) / 0.3mm(layer height) =1.667?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2012 02:02PM by eniq1on.

Slic3r calculates that automatically by default (and it does a pretty good job of it). It looks to me like you have your filament diameter set too big. For example, if you have the filament diameter set to 1.75 in Slic3r, but your filament is actually 1.72, then you will get too little plastic extruded. Try measuring the diameter of the filament and using the exact diameter in Slic3r.

ok now i can print parts pretty good with slow speed. Now problem is that last layer is incomplete. It prints it but it looks like its printed with fill density 25% or something.

aplavins Wrote:
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> I've heard from many people that inexpensive
> filaments produced in china are difficult to work
> with, if not completely unusable. Maybe order some
> 4043 from ultimacine. They are expensive but the
> filament is excellent.


I printed with some hot melt adhesive layer on bed, it worked well on printing, stick to bed tightly, that can seen on my video :

Also i see someone add density medal mesh on the bed also printing PLA well.
I think even materials bad, that as DIY we can do some method to improve , blame to China seems always a good excuse. However, there are no raw materials PLA manufacture in China , PLA original from US or Japan.These two country always remain good in domestic, earn good reputation, bad export to China,

eniq1on Wrote:
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> ok now i can print parts pretty good with slow
> speed. Now problem is that last layer is
> incomplete. It prints it but it looks like its
> printed with fill density 25% or something.


Here is pics about that last layer incomplete problem. Ill use slic3r but if i cant get it to work ill try Sfact.

[www.dropbox.com]

Ok now i have made new bolt for extruder that helped a little about that incomplete prob. Also cheating slic3r about nozzle diameter helped.
Now problem is that my orange PLA from Supply3DPLA.com just wont stick into glass. I have tried bed temp 30-90 with 5 celsius steps but it wont just stick. Now i have to use just plexi without heat.

Some updates. I bought kapton tape and tried to print onto it. It sticked ok but after some layers it started wrapping from corners. So i think problem can only be in pla.

eniq1on Wrote:
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> Its not going to stick... loosing my mind with
> this. tried all temps. Maybe my glass sucks then.
>
>
Glass that sucks would solve your problem.

I'll get me coat then.

TCase Wrote:
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> Glass that sucks would solve your problem.
>
> I'll get me coat then.

Scorchio!

Has anyone tried sandblashing the glass to make a slightly rougher surface?
(thinking this would help things stick?)

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Custom all metal CoreXY
- Duet 2 Wifi w/ PanelDue 7i
- 330mm x 360mm x 500mm
- 750w Silicon heater

Custom Mendel90
(Backup printer - Old reliable!) - Sold

AFAIK, yes, some people have been using frosted glass and claimed it increases adhesion.
I vaguely recall someone saying they couldn't see any difference between frosted and regular, but i think the concensus was that it helps.

I now swear by a 50% mix of PVA glue and water. Paint it onto a clean class bed and let it dry for a few minutes. I print my PLA at 195'C for the first layer and drop to 175'C for the rest. I reaIise that temperatures don't necessarily transfer from one machine to the next but what I'm saying is that the 195'C represents about the hotest I'd want to print at. I usually have my bed at 45'C but I wouldn't have it above 65'C or you will never get the objects off. I'd also refrain from changing the bed temp from first layer to subsequent as the bed and plastic shrink at different rates and this could cause curling.

However, all this said, a good first layer is essential.

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Using ABSPrusa Mendel Zaphod with Pronterface and slic3r 1.3.0. Printing well with 3mm PLA and ABS through 2 x J Head Mk IV b and Wade Geared Exruders. Controlled using RAMPS1.4 board running Marlin_v1.1.9

I print at those temperatures without PVA glue, on "naked" glass, 45-60 deg C.
I keep the fan off for the first 1-3 layers.

Since beefing up the cooling, however, i've now started experiencing warping on larger, flat bottom objects, so i'm thinking about experimenting with PVA+water too.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2012 10:26PM by orcinus.

I'd make sure you start from the lower bed temperatures to start with or you may have fun removing larger objects from the bed.

orcinus Wrote:
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> I print at those temperatures without PVA glue, on
> "naked" glass, 45-60 deg C.
> I keep the fan off for the first 1-3 layers.
>
> Since beefing up the cooling, however, i've now
> started experiencing warping on larger, flat
> bottom objects, so i'm thinking about
> experimenting with PVA+water too.

---

Using ABSPrusa Mendel Zaphod with Pronterface and slic3r 1.3.0. Printing well with 3mm PLA and ABS through 2 x J Head Mk IV b and Wade Geared Exruders. Controlled using RAMPS1.4 board running Marlin_v1.1.9