ABS and Kapton tape- all the same? or?

Hi all,
New to ABS printing (can print PLA no bother) and still having issues with parts curling off the bed, tried temps, ABS slurry, PVA coated bed, Kapton tape, plain glass, all sorts.

My question is, does the supplier of the material make a big difference to it's print ability? Have any of you had ABS you struggled to print and then found a different suppliers stuff to print well?

Same question for Kapton tape, is it pretty much all the same stuff or does it vary by supplier?
Cheers
D

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2014 10:42AM by maddog7.

I use diluted ABS juice on top of Kapton tape applied to 6mm glass with bed at 110 deg C. Juice made by dissolving ABS the same colour as the print object in acetone. I then decant the saturated solution into another container and dilute it down to about 50% strength with more acetone. Extruder set at 235 deg C. I adjust my Z axis to squash the first layer down.

the biggest thing that i overlooked was making sure the filament is dry, and kept dry!

Get a damp absorber and a big sealed sandwich box, and store your filament in it... definitleyl makes a difference!

the thing I found helps the most with warping is using a Brim, have not had a part warp since.

I second the brim. I print on plain glass, cleaned with Windex and sprayed with a couple layers of Aquanet Super Hold hairspray. Things print and stick like they are superglued to the bed until it cools off.

I did notice that I would get warping if my nozzle wasn't .1mm off the glass, replaced the rubber z-axis connectors with printed connectors and didn't adjust the offset. Obviously the rubber tubing had more flex than the ABS printed parts so my Z offset was about .25mm. Took a couple minutes of firmware changes and G28 commands to get the offset configured properly.

Quote
dave3d
I use diluted ABS juice on top of Kapton tape applied to 6mm glass with bed at 110 deg C. Juice made by dissolving ABS the same colour as the print object in acetone. I then decant the saturated solution into another container and dilute it down to about 50% strength with more acetone. Extruder set at 235 deg C. I adjust my Z axis to squash the first layer down.

Thanks for that Dave, I've tried ABS slurry on Kapton with the same poor outcome, Is your bed temp thermistor or measured at the bed's surface?
I've tried slightly higher and lower Z0 heights too.
Cheers
D

Cheers for the tip Tommm, Mine is kept indoors at all times (not in cold garage eg) but I'll grab a dehumid bag from the wife and put it in a box with my ABS in it.
:-)
D

Cat.Farmer/randyf1965,

The Brim and hairspray are 2 thing's I've not tried yet, i did bring some hairspray to work to try but just havn't done it yet (I take it straight onto glass?) and I clean forgot about the brim!

Have some ABS coming tomorrow I believe is known to give good results so I'll do some more experimenting then.

Thanks for the suggestions all
:-)
D

Oh,
Has anyone ever really thought they could tell the difference between differing brands of ABS and or Kapton?
Cheers
D

maddog7: my thermistor is set in a standard RepRap 200 x 200 bed. The 6mm glass is just clipped on top.
Often my ABS sticks too well and I can't get it off. I apply the juice with a paintbrush as it is heating up, usually between 70 and 100 deg C. Often good for several prints, it just needs touching up if doing the same print in the same place.

How are you applying the Kapton? I spray the glass with window cleaner and smooth it out with a credit card. You need to keep the Kapton clean I think.

My ABS is kept in the house so I guess is dry. I have had problems printing with black ABS, as I have posted on here in the past. Black is full of all sorts of crap. Suggest you try other colours.

Thanks for that Dave,
It is black ABS I'm trying to print, what problems did you have with it?
I applied the Kapton in 2 different ways, drop of washing up liquid in some water and squeegied out with a credit card but have problems with it not sticking, then applied dry but carefully pressed down with a credit card. This meant very slight gaps between strips but otherwise a good flat almost completely bubble free surface.

Can't help feeling the problem is not so much the lack of adhesion to the bed as extreme warping of the material. Even when it warps it still stays stuck to the bed until the head presumably knocks it off, hence the qtn about material quality.

My machine is using 3mm glass on top of the 200x200 bed and there is a temp difference of exactly 20 deg between the thermistor reading and the temp measured at the surface using a IR thermometer.

Cheers,
D
:-)

Wheyhey!
On plain glass with PVA juice I used a 20 line brim and turned off all cooling, 230c extr, 115c bed, first sucessful ABS print!
Just busy printing something bigger now to see if it was a fluke!
Cheers all for your suggestions!
D

I print 3mm ABS from Makerfarm onto Kapton tape that's been thoroughly cleaned with pure acetone. My bed temp shows 115, but I just turned it up until parts started to stick.

As long as your z height is set correctly (I do the paper test) my prints stick like glue and pop off perfectly when the glass cools. It makes a cracking/popping sound when it cools and releases. I just clean the bed with some acetone before starting my next print.

I used to do the ABS slurry, but I got tired of having to clean the bed. Haven't tried hairspray. Sounds too messy.

For ABS. Once more. No kapton. No spray and other chemical shit.

Just plain glass heated up to 110-130C and painted with beer.

Quote
karabas
Just plain glass heated up to 110-130C and painted with beer.

I can think of one or two other better uses for beer.

i have a roll of kypton tape that abs doesnt stick to no matter what the temperature with out or without slurry... so get the tape from a good source and not some cheap ebay source

I can recomend the "Koptan" variant of Kapton, good adhesion when heated, and still a cheap knock off.

BEER! ofmg!
There's no reason it shouldnt work!
Might give it a try!

I did get my Kapton from a 3d print supplier so I'd presume it would work but hence my question.

Might try some Koptan!

Thanks again all.
D

maddog7: I have got two different spools of black ABS. One I can't use because of the smell. It is overwhelming. I got it on Ebay and I think it is made in China. Get what you pay for I think.

The other is made by America Instrument which I bought on Amazon. Other colours have been fine but the black appears to have lumps in it as it comes out of the extruder. The layers also don't flow into each other the same. The lines are very pronounced. I believe it is the amount of recycled material that goes into the black.

Another comment about the Kapton tape: I would think dish washing liquid would leave a residue on the surface. Window cleaner has methanol in it which helps cleaning and it also evaporates cleanly. It works for me.

karabas: what kind of beer? fizzy euro lager or real ale?

I did wonder if there was a difference in qualities. The original abs I'm using has a much bigger difference in its diameter along its length than the PLA I use.
Good tip on the Kapton too!
D
;-)

I put kapton on glass, clean it with ammonia, then put aceton with ABS dissolved in it on the kapton, use a clean! sandpaper, grid 180, slightly sand the whole kapton. After that wipe with dry paper towl, and again ABS in aceton dissolved on the kapton and a 10 mm brim. After first layer of 117 degrees C, tem on bed down to 105. After 3 layers temp on bed down to 85 and head to 230. Also i have my i3 in an old kitchen cabinet, so no draft and packed inside of cabinet with radiator foil. No warp, no in print breaking and nice and clean prints, and i print LARGE object, thin and tall, 13-16 cm hight and 10 cm wide, 4 mm thick and NO problemo. The draft and insulating the printer helps alot in my case.

If someone wants pictures just PM me

Gr. Wilco

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