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XY Jerk settings

Posted by cat.farmer 
XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 09:52AM
I often see suggestions to change the XY Jerk for printing issues, corners mostly. but I was wondering about what is the recommended Max setting for this?
The github version of Marlin is set at 20, I have seen people say they set it as high as 400?? ( I know..I know.. it is based on printer model )
What is the effect of a high setting or too high setting?
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 10:44AM
I would very much like to know as well, I've enver fully understood jerk.


Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 11:52AM
Personally I think a lot of these initial firmware acceleration values in most firmware packages were meant to impress, display and showcase the speed capabilities of the machine/printer itself, and not necessarily turning the machine in to a workable 3d printer that produces reliable quality prints.
Print FAST (and with high firmware acceleration & jerk values) throw the print in the garbage when done, Print SLOWER (and with lower acceleration & jerk values), and you stand a chance a achieving a successful high quality print.

The below values work for my machine setup, which the chassis is designed to be both rigid and lightweight
and is constructed out of 6061-T6 Aluminum Plate, I designed my chassis and selected appropriate build materials
to counter any chassis flex during printing, accleration, jerk and reciprocating forces.

For spindly designed machines using M8 thread stock with printed plastic chassis connectors, wooden boxed chasiss,
and plastic printed chassis, that do not have the rigidity of a competent design and materials, you may need to further
reduce your Acceleration & Jerk Variables.

//=========================================================
//===========Acceleration & Jerk Variables=================
//=========================================================
//Marlin_v1.0.0 RC2 on Gen 6

// Feedrates & ACCELERATION
#define DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE {500, 500, 5, 45} // (mm/sec)

// #define DEFAULT_MAX_ACCELERATION {9000,9000,100,10000}
// 032813_seems to accelerate to rapidly causing the stepper motor/or belt to skip a create a offset error ruinng the print. Reduce values.
#define DEFAULT_MAX_ACCELERATION {3500,3500,100,2000} // X, Y, Z, E maximum start speed for accelerated moves.

// #define DEFAULT_ACCELERATION 3000 // X, Y, Z and E max acceleration in mm/s^2 for printing moves
#define DEFAULT_ACCELERATION 2000 // X, Y, Z and E max acceleration in mm/s^2 for printing moves.
#define DEFAULT_RETRACT_ACCELERATION 2000 // X, Y, Z and E max acceleration in mm/s^2 for retracts.

//
// #define DEFAULT_XYJERK 20.0 // (mm/sec)
// 040213_XY_changed to 15.0, to reduce vibration in small detail/thin walled prints, reduce any corner print quality issues and layer offset issues.
// 060113_XY_changed to 10.0, to reduce jerk in small detail/thin walled prints and reduce any layer offset shifting. FIXED offset layer issue !!!
#define DEFAULT_XYJERK 10.0 // (mm/sec)
#define DEFAULT_ZJERK 0.4 // (mm/sec)
#define DEFAULT_EJERK 5.0 // (mm/sec)
//===========================================================================

Your mileage may vary with the above settings, but it least it gives you an idea what others have been successful using.

Hope my experience helps you... enjoy Happy Printing !smileys with beer

Shawn
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

25+ Years Experience as a Manufacturing Engineer and New Product Developer
Three Years Experience... Printing 6-8 hours a day, 5 days a week, complex and close tolerance functional engineering prototypes.
Printing PLA @0.1mm Layer Height with +- 0.05mm tolerance for all dimensional shapes (except slightly undersized hole I.D.s).
No printing of... toys, trinkets, low quality prints, or other useless printed objects.
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 12:03PM
Thanks shawn. The question is not about achieving speed, just an understanding of what it is and does. I was playing with the setting last night, and put in a high value.. something like 100, to see what effect it had. It did correct my corrner issue, and an issue i was having with circles. But i really don't understand what it is I changed, and the effects of it to other parts of the print.
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 01:15PM
And where exactly can I find more of your prowess of knowledge?



Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 02:30PM
well i had my jerk settings at 5 now they at 50 and i noticed a slight improvement


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 03:11PM
I don't understand how a higher jerk setting can improve things. As I understand it (which very well may be wrong) the jerk setting determines the maximum instantaneous rate of speed change, so a higher jerk setting allows you to slow down much faster. If you have a heavy carriage, that could cause vibrations which will show up in the print. A small jerk value would improve the situation because the carriage would be eased into turns. If you have a light carriage, you'd be able to have a larger value. So according to my thinking, a small value would ALWAYS give a good result, and the challenge is to make it as large as possible for your machine without compromising the print quality. As you get larger, the quality would gradually decrease until you reach the point where the print is no longer acceptable to you, so then you back down a bit.
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 03:38PM
it speeds up the movement between the directional shift changes which yes going to fast won't help but going to slow won't im going to run a few tests to find a balance


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 05:31PM
So it's liken to acceleration, but for changes of direction, rather than speed alone?


Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 07:36PM
Quote
MrDoctorDIV
So it's liken to acceleration, but for changes of direction, rather than speed alone?

That is what confuses me..the firmware states./ The speed change that does not require acceleration (i.e. the software might assume it can be done instanteneously)
How can you change speed without acceleration?
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 20, 2014 07:56PM
Acceleration, here, means ramping the motors to the desired speed rather than asking them to change speed within a single step.
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 21, 2014 12:52AM
Quote
Andrew Smith
Acceleration, here, means ramping the motors to the desired speed rather than asking them to change speed within a single step.

Yes, the motors themselves can probably handle instantaneous changes in speed, but the printed object might suffer as a result. Thus, the firmware uses logic to change the speed of the motor over time until it reaches the desired speed (or the point at which it needs to start decelerating).

I'm not sure of all of the math, but in my mind, I sort of equate jerk to how steep that acceleration curve can be.
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 21, 2014 02:55AM
when its doing directional movements not travel movements not printing movements thats what it speeds up


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 21, 2014 12:38PM
heres a another thread about xy jerk settings bumpy around corners


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 21, 2014 05:25PM
Quote
chris33
heres a another thread about xy jerk settings bumpy around corners

I saw that one, kinda why I asked.
If I understand correctly on a change in direction ..say x to y.. when it shifts direction this slowly raises the acceleration to you set rate. Or is this the speed that the change takes place?

I will just have to play with the setting more. I still am wondering what a max setting would be, high would be too high.
Re: XY Jerk settings
May 21, 2014 10:30PM
Well I had mine set at 50 going try 500 lol


Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]
Re: XY Jerk settings
June 14, 2014 09:11AM
Jerk is mathematically the derivative of acceleration. In kinemqtics, you start with time and distance. Velocity is dX/dT. Acceleration is dV/dT, jerk is dA/dt. It's basically the rate of change of acceleration.

My professor briefly touched on jerk in my college advanced machine design course 15 years ago. I don't use kinematics professionally so I've forgotten how to apply jerk math to a machine.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2014 09:16AM by umdpru.
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