Second layer not sticking to first

Hi

I am trying to print a box with quite a large flat bottom. The bottom layer sticks fine to the base, but the second layer doesn't stick to the first and is very ragged. The print then gradually improves from there up.

Pictures of the seperated base, and the remaining box from the underneath and on top attached. You can see by the time you get through 5 layers of the box bottom the mess caused by layer 2 has nearly gone, but not quite.

Printing onto unheated blue tape with PLA at 200 degrees. 0.4mm nozzle, 0.3mm layer height, 0.4mm first layer. 20% first layer speed, 200% first layer width.

Any thoughts would be great,

Thanks very much
Kev

Turn down your first layer height. You can't do a 0.4mm layer with a 0.4mm nozzle. Extrusion width for the first layer should be 100%, and if you have your first layer set to 1/2 your print layer height, you will get better bed adhesion.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2014 09:47PM by Dirty Steve.

Hi Steve

Thanks very much for the reply for the reply, but plenty of advice is to make the 1st layer thicker and wider? Even the Slicer Manual suggests 200% and matching the nozzel width:

[manual.slic3r.org]
[manual.slic3r.org]

The bottom layer sticks fine (infact too well), the problem I have is the 2nd layer not sticking to the first - so as I remove the print the 1st layer separates from the 2nd layer?

Thanks very much
Kevin

It may say that in the manual, but you still can't do a properly printed 0.4mm layer with a 0.4mm nozzle. Your second layer is not sticking correctly because your first layer is incorrect.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2014 09:30AM by Dirty Steve.

Quote
Dirty Steve
You can't do a 0.4mm layer with a 0.4mm nozzle

Hm, guess I broke physics. I get cleaner printer with 0.4mm on my E3D [with 0.4mm nozzle] than 0.1mm or 0.05mm. First layer is made so easy, I can't tell it's not perfectly level until I go down to .2mm and below. I have more adhesion problems with lower heights, I would assume due to less tolerance for flatness and leveled bed.]
My personal experience has been matching your nozzle with layer height is better and easier.

---

Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

On my machine I certainly can't pull a 0.25mm layer with a 0.25mm nozzle. In the second photo, looking at the first layer, that result is most certainly not right for a first layer.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2014 05:38PM by Dirty Steve.

I guess we read all kinds of opinions. I was always told to use 80% of the part layer thickness as the first layer thickness. So, a .3mm layer thickness would require a .24 first layer thickness. As I said, there are all kinds of opinions out there.

Milt

Making it smaller makes sense, so if you wanted my opinion, that's what I would have gone with. It'll press down the plastic more, increasing contact with the bed, but my experience shows me otherwise. My larger layer models stick so well that I sometimes have to remove everything to remove the print.
But I can say my Solidoodle experience seems to be fundamentally different from everyone else in the world, considering I print 167C perfect, and my old hotend prints better than the E3D v5 and has more stable temps [even if it does take ten times longer to heat up].

---

Realizer- One who realizes dreams by making them a reality either by possibility or by completion. Also creating or renewing hopes of dreams.
"keep in mind, even the best printer can not print with the best filament if the user is the problem." -Ohmarinus

Hi

Thanks for the info, I made 3 changes for my next print, a Greg's Reloaded Extruder:

1. Layer Height to 0.25mm (as required by the STL apparently)
2. First Layer Height to 0.35
3. Reduced my 'zero' height from 0.18 to 0.09 (Two sheets of paper to one)

I still have the problem where the print is very difficult to remove from the glass / blue tape (impossible at the moment!), But, the 1st / 2nd layer problem seems to have gone away!

Thanks very much
Kevin

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 02:53PM by kevwal.