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Zits And Pimples - S3D

Posted by Kafledelius 
Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 15, 2016 04:02PM
Hello Reprap!

I am using Simplify3d with a SmartrapCore bowden setup.

If you see the attatched pictures, you'll notice alot of pimples and zits. This is where the outer perimeter starts and stops.
I have tried everything in S3D - From Wiping up to 8mm, coasting up to 5mm, retracting between layers and so on.

The print that the picture is of, is done with 0 wiping, 2.4 mm coasting @ 60mm/s, 200 Degrees celsius hotend and 65 degrees bed.
I'm using Devil Design Green PLA 1.75mm.

Does anyone have any tip or solution to this? sad smiley it would be highly apreciated!!

Any other tips on how to improve the print quality is also very welcome smiling smiley



Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 15, 2016 06:07PM
For this model you should be fine without retraction.
Give it a try without retraction (maybe one size smaller?).
So no extras, just printing, no wipe, clean or anything.
Just make sure that you have relative high speeds for non print moves.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 15, 2016 06:14PM
That's a nice looking filament.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 15, 2016 10:07PM
The most effective thing to do is to make the Z change faster. You can bump up your Z acceleration and jerk value, and you should also disable retracts on layer change, too.


Master Tinkerer
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 12:28AM
Hey guys!

Awesome, quick feedback!

I'll try and bump up the z values, However, eliminating retractions isn't quite the goal sad smiley
It's also an issue while printing the benchy for example :/

I'll get back to you with another print smiling smiley

JamesK - yea I'm very pleased with it! And it's roughly half price compared to colorfabb smiling smiley
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 04:39AM
I Just tried tinkering with the Z values - And its made a difference.

How ever, i see the blop showing only at the end of the outer perimeter.
As if its not connecting the 2 "ends" of the loop.

Should i try disabling coasting? sad smiley
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 04:46AM
My I ask why removing the retraction in a part that does not need it is a bad thing? winking smiley
I made the suggestion to rule out your pimples are caused by incorrect retraction/wipe settings...
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 08:24AM
Your right - and i just tried.

It did not have any visible effect :/

But it might look like the filament is being pushed over the edge because of some excess plastic from the first perimeter.

Gah sad smiley
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 08:38AM
Got the same problem with the same software, trying what is recommended. Those settings with retraction, wipe and coasting are complicated!
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 08:47AM
Very!

Have you had any luck so far?
Did you get better results with another slicer?
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 09:41AM
Not yet. Just to illustrate my problem, here is a link: [forums.reprap.org]
As you can see, in addition to those pimples, I've got a problem with the width of the extrusion in the beginning of the layer. It starts wider and this makes a discernible line, but after a few milimeters it reverts back to the normal width.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 10:46AM
I see - Your issue looks kind of like mine :/


have you tried calibrating the extrusion again? - I'm desperate... So i'm trying that again sad smiley
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 11:35AM
I didn't yet but I will check it. In the meantime, I am trying to print with Cura. It has the option to print infills before the perimeters, so the layer change happens when the printing head is over the infills, so any blob will theoretically form there and won't be visible on the outer surface. That's just theory of course, we will see if it works.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 11:51AM
Please give me a feedback!

This is really bugging me confused smiley
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 16, 2016 08:20PM
Not sure if it helps you but I fixed all these related issues by switching to volumetric extrusion.
Takes a bit of testing to get the settings right but after that the flow through the nozzle stays almost at constant pressure bringing much cleaner results.
For some reason S3D is often over or under extruding in these critical parts when printing normal.
Finding the right settings to prevent this is much easier in volumetric mode and I found it works best the more complicated the filament is.
Nylon for example I wouldn't print withour it anymore.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 02:40AM
I see Downunder35m - How did you achieve that? Simply putting in an M200 command?
Any settings to set in Simplify3d?
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 04:32AM
Not that simple sadly.
In slic3r you can basically select it as standard but in S3D you need to use the M200 command and mess around with the extrusion settings.
You literally need to work your way towards multiplicator and extrusion width settings until you get it right.
Downside is that there is no direct support for it which makes it a hit and miss when changing filament.
Check it first with Sic3r and keep in mind that you also need pretty constand speeds in S3D as otheriwise it all goes down again.
I was hoping that the guys will implement this nice feature but after over a year of waiting it does not look too good.

But before you start massing with everything:
Do you use the default settings like high quality or do you create your own?
S3D takes a lot of guesswork out but on the other hand is not friendly to getting more control.
Currently I actually tend to use Slic3r more than S3D.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 07:54AM
Thanks for getting back smiling smiley

So, i've done a few things...
I've activated Firmware Retractions, I've changed my extruder to a geared one (WOW what an improvement) and i've gone over to volumetric extrusion (still dialing in) but, some of that seems to have helped... Or maybe its just slicer tongue sticking out smiley

I hate how you have to dial S3D in confused smiley how come such an expensive software, doesnt have the functions of a free one confused smiley
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 09:09AM
Quote
Kafledelius
I hate how you have to dial S3D in confused smiley how come such an expensive software, doesnt have the functions of a free one confused smiley

Those are the trade-offs that have to be made. Slic3r is feature rich, but the cost is that it can be prone to bugs. With S3D they likely put more of their resources into usability and stability. The cost is largely immaterial (to this argument, obviously not to the individual user) - for the likely size of the market the price of S3D is close to zero. It certainly isn't enough to support a large full time software team, so the differences are more ones of approach than funding. (Let's say the average programmer salary is $100K, fully over-headed costs are roughly 2x salary, a small software team is 10 people, so annual cost is $2 million. Does S3D sell 13 thousand copies a year? I doubt it)

It's easy to get frustrated with Slic3r's bugs, or with Cura's limitations, but the reality is that these are amazing pieces of software available for free, and all of us who at least got started with them owe an enormous debt of gratitude.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 09:39AM
Your absolutely Right JamesK.

However, as i just moved from S3D to Slic3r - I gotta say, the feel of S3D is way better smiling smiley
But, i think that both softwares has some features which the other lacks :/

However, what exactly does the pressure advance setting in slic3r do?
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 09:46AM
It is supposed to get the nozzle pressure back to normal after retractions for example.
This shall ensure even extrusions.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 09:54AM
Quote
Kafledelius
However, what exactly does the pressure advance setting in slic3r do?

I haven't tried it, but my understanding is that it attempts to model elasticity in the solid part of the filament so as to compensate for the delay between movement of the extruder motor and the resulting change in flow of plastic at the nozzle. So, in theory, it's exactly what you need to avoid the zits & pimples artifacts. Without any compensation the delay in extrusion causes a gap at the beginning of a segment and a bump at the end. The advance algorithm figures out how much extra extrusion is needed at the beginning, and how much less at the end, so that the right amount of plastic is deposited on the part - i.e it advances the extruder motion to compensate for latency in pressure changes in the nozzle.
The problem is that the advance algorithm has a reputation for being somewhat unstable and has never become the default approach.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 02:18PM
I see - It did not do anything good for me tongue sticking out smiley

However, the joy was short.
The pimples are back - for some reason confused smiley

And now, whenever my printer does a retraction, the filament blocks.. Could this be due to moisture? It forms a big lump of filament at the end, making it too big to pass the hot end.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 17, 2016 08:41PM
Big lump?
If a lump forms in the hotend it usually means your heatbreak has a problem.
Could also explain your pimples if retraction is used.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 18, 2016 12:20AM
Aww! I thought that confused smiley
How could i fix this?
I just took off the fan, although being dusty, it seemed fine.

Sure it couldnt just be moisture in the filament?
I just tried another filament, which seems fine :/
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 18, 2016 01:15AM
Well, if other filament is fine then you might had a bit of contamination or the plastic was too long on heat without printing.
If you have a teflon liner and do a lot retractions it pays off to check the liner when changing filament or cleaning the extruder.
Once they start to go soft from either heat or just usage they can slip into the neck of the nozlle causing a bottleneck.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 18, 2016 01:45AM
That shouldnt be the issue with a E3D Though, it's all metal, isnt it? smiling smiley

- I just tried inserting a piece of the other PLA, which now retratcted fine O.o
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 18, 2016 03:28AM
They come with liners if not genuine and some originals too to get down from 3mm to 1.75mm, not an expert though, so if in doubt checkwinking smiley
Have you tried to pull the hot filament out by hand?
If that shows a much bigger "lump" at the end it could indicate that there is a cooling issue in the cold end/heat break.
Or, that the tolerances are too high, it should be one snug fit till the hole for the melting chamber.
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 18, 2016 05:59AM
Ahh smiling smiley Well, the liner on my original E3D V6 is the actual bowden tube it seems.

Thinking about applying olive oil to the filament to help remove some of the stress in the bowden tube.Do you reckon this would help?
Re: Zits And Pimples - S3D
April 18, 2016 07:41AM
No sure, for teflon I would only use silicone oil.
But before I finally changed to a more direct system I replaced the teflon bowden tube with blue, 5mm air hose.
Was a perfect fit for my 3mm filament and caused far less friction.
But that might be due to the fact the the teflon tube was 4mm inner diameter while the airtube was only 3.3mm.
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