Printing PLA with oil
September 19, 2016 07:39PM
Hi there,

I was just printing PLA with oil and got rid of some stupid jams. grinning smiley

I used GM Dexos2 (5W-30) and was able to print with 0.1 layers without jamming.

However, i noticed 5W-30 might be too thick, because my extruder was overflowing with oil. grinning smiley Had to cut strips from dishcloth and wick the excess oil away during print.

So, maybe something thinner then?
Is WD-40 or silicone spray good for PLA?

I've already printed this thing: [www.thingiverse.com]
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 07:56AM
I might have posted in the wrong area.

Maybe move this thread to printing issues: [forums.reprap.org] ??
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 10:40AM
Well, WD-40 works with 0.1 layers.

However, Dexos2 produces more gloss than WD-40.
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 01:07PM
I have printed for thousands of hours with PLA, without ever adding a drop of oil or other lubricant to my system. It doesn't seem like something a well-made system would need. In fact, it seems like it could cause problems with bed/layer adhesion, more than anything.

Are you interested in solving the problem, or are you happy just applying oil to your system?
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 02:24PM
Quote
n8bot
I have printed for thousands of hours with PLA, without ever adding a drop of oil or other lubricant to my system. It doesn't seem like something a well-made system would need.
You don't use lubricants for your bearings or threaded rods?

My "system" is not well made. grinning smiley
It is a wood frame Prusa i3 Rework.

(I've upgraded the Z threaded rod to have support at top, so the weight is not at the couplings)

Quote

In fact, it seems like it could cause problems with bed/layer adhesion, more than anything.
Nope,
I had to raise the first layer temperature to 200 and drop it to 190 for the rest of the layers.
In fact, these are the prints that i cannot crush with my bare hands.

I had layer adhesion problems before oil. They were brittle and i could twist the layers apart with bare hands. smiling smiley
Layers are now rock solid.

Quote

Are you interested in solving the problem, or are you happy just applying oil to your system?

The initial problem was that i could not go beyond 0.3 layer height and 60% infill. Anything less would jam the extruder mid print when printing fine details like supports.
"I had to keep PLA juices flowing" and this works with high layers and infills.

I've now printed this whistle:
It was not possible to print it before. My extruder would jam and grind the filament. Only thing changed is the added oil.
[www.thingiverse.com]
With 0.1 layers, 190 temperature and 30% infill.
Just by adding WD-40 to it.


I know, i still have few problems about ringing and X-axis backlash, but i was able to print it with using oil. smiling smiley smiling smiley
I have a metal barrel. No PTFE lining.

So, anything you can help me to solve would be appreciated. smiling smiley

And..
My cat hates that whistle.
She meowed me from the vestibule and after a third whistle she hissed at me and escaped to bedroom.
I have not seen her for few hours...

I quess i'm not using this whistle inside the house again? grinning smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2016 02:44PM by Veesta.
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 05:47PM
Haha, you're right, I meant my extrusion system. I do lubricate my bearings. tongue sticking out smiley

I think if you had no oil in your extrusion system, but it worked properly, the layer adhesion would be even better. It's just a guess, but I can't see how adding oil would help the adhesion, it simply helped the extrusion.
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 06:12PM
I've got a knock off E3D with an all metal hot end (no PTFE in the heat break) and when first installed it jammed fairly frequently, and I found a wipe of the filament for the first few prints with olive oil helped, I've seen comments that it helps 'season' the hot end and reduce friction. I haven't added any more, and definetly never added enough to drip anywhere. I also didn't see any problem with bed/layer adhesion with this.

Paul.
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 20, 2016 11:02PM
Quote
Veesta
I've now printed this whistle:
It was not possible to print it before. My extruder would jam and grind the filament. Only thing changed is the added oil.

There's a big part of your problem. The pinch roller's function is to press the filament against the drive gear so that it bites deeply ito the filament. If the extruder is grinding divots into the filament, it is an indication that it isn't biting deeply enough- the pinch roller pressure is not set high enough. If your nozzle jams, the extruder motor should skip steps, it should not chew up the filament.


Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 26, 2016 09:17AM
I recently changed from ABS to PLA, my chinese electronics wouldn’t allow the heatedbed to go over 100º, so I had no option but to change to PLA.
It is REALLY frustrating this jamming all the time.

I followed every instruction I could find, lowered speed to lessen the pressure, lowered the temperature (190° would be perfect for print quality, but 200° is jamming less), placed a sponge with oil before the extruder....but the damn thing keeps jamming during retractions.

At list now is mainly during retractions.
I'm using a 0.5mm nozzle, with requires a good 10mm retraction to stop cobweb. Less retraction equals less jamming but crappy prints.
Anyway, I should be able to trust a 5 hour print without having to stalk my printer.

What am I missing here???
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 26, 2016 09:29AM
10mm retraction?
I use only 0.5mm and advance 0.1 when print starts after retract.
There are some hairs in the print, but a quick burn from cigarette lighter will remove it without damaging the part itself.
Use piezo lighter, NOT torch. The "click" will give you fast flame ON - OFF

I dunno, Dexos2 in the barrel works for me. I have now removed the sponge-thingy, because apparently Motor oil stays in the barrel.
Dexos2 is fully synthetic, so it will not burn at 200°C
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 26, 2016 10:47AM
10mm retraction is a problem, too. You're pulling softened/liquid filament up into the cold end of the hot-end which causes it to solidify and then it "jams" and your extruder chews a divot into the filament because it isn't biting into the filament deeply enough. Reducing retraction to a more reasonable value like 1 mm or so and increasing pinch roller pressure, so that when things get a little tight the motor has half a chance of pushing on through, should fix the problem. Stringiness is more a function of temperature than retraction. Retraction fixes blobs.

When you're ready to actually fix all the problems and print reliably, get an extruder with a geared drive (try an E3D titan- you can use the motor from your old extruder), a decent hot-end, and a bed heater that will get you up to print temperature. 0.4-0.5 W/cm^2 does the job unless you have a super massive bed. Use 3 point leveling instead of 4. While you might get 4 to work, 3 is much easier, faster, and usually more stable. With 3 point leveling and a proper heater/bed plate you'll be able to print edge to edge on the bed instead of just at the center.

Don't expect to print any medium to large ABS objects even if you get the bed temperature up. ABS needs a warm enclosure to prevent delamination. You can print small ABS parts, and single walled vases of almost any size, but as soon as the part is taller than a few cm and has any bulk to it, it will delaminate without a warm (40-45C) enclosure.


Ultra MegaMax Dominator 3D printer: [drmrehorst.blogspot.com]
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 26, 2016 01:12PM
Quote
Veesta
10mm retraction?
I use only 0.5mm and advance 0.1 when print starts after retract.
There are some hairs in the print, but a quick burn from cigarette lighter will remove it without damaging the part itself.
Use piezo lighter, NOT torch. The "click" will give you fast flame ON - OFF

Ok, I'll make an effort to print at 190° and leave the retraction shorter. The lighter is a good advice, I'll start using it.


Quote
the_digital_dentist
10mm retraction is a problem, too. You're pulling softened/liquid filament up into the cold end of the hot-end which causes it to solidify and then it "jams" and your extruder chews a divot into the filament because it isn't biting into the filament deeply enough. Reducing retraction to a more reasonable value like 1 mm or so and increasing pinch roller pressure, so that when things get a little tight the motor has half a chance of pushing on through, should fix the problem. Stringiness is more a function of temperature than retraction. Retraction fixes blobs.

When you're ready to actually fix all the problems and print reliably, get an extruder with a geared drive (try an E3D titan- you can use the motor from your old extruder), a decent hot-end, and a bed heater that will get you up to print temperature. 0.4-0.5 W/cm^2 does the job unless you have a super massive bed. Use 3 point leveling instead of 4. While you might get 4 to work, 3 is much easier, faster, and usually more stable. With 3 point leveling and a proper heater/bed plate you'll be able to print edge to edge on the bed instead of just at the center.

Dude, easier said than done...Brasil sucks at finding parts and importing from US and Europe is very expensive (customs taxes can get up to 60% alone).
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 28, 2016 09:37AM
Interesting!

I unintentionally disabled firmware retraction and things got much much better!
The only difference is that Slic3r was configured to use 30mm/s for recovery, but Marling is using only 3mm/s.

Maybe this extra "punch" is helping to keep the filament moving?
Re: Printing PLA with oil
September 30, 2016 12:19PM
Yep, just for documenting it, 40mm/s is the magic number for retraction and recovery here.
Parts are getting out great now.
Re: Printing PLA with oil
October 11, 2016 03:58PM
Ok.....so I was able to make 2 whole prints without any problem what so ever. Low temp around 195° and quite a good outside finish with almost no blobs or web.

But now I cant print even the first layer!!!!!
What is the chance the filament is the problem???
The seller says it's NatureWorks, the pure PLA kind, not the ingeo version.
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