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petg and worries about my bed

Posted by charlieRC 
petg and worries about my bed
May 25, 2019 06:08PM
I am a long time ABS printer and a PLA convert for some time now. Now I want to try petG as I am hearing that it has the best of PLA and ABS. Unfortunatly, I am also hearing horror stories about damage to glass beds. I tried a few bed configurations, but always come back to a quarter inch aluminum heat spreader with a quarter inch glass plate. (inertia is not a problem as my machine is coreXY) I have used hair spray for ever and am quite happy with how it works.

My quetions is: with a quarter inch glass bed (regular glass...not anything special), do I have to worry about petG destroying the glass. If it caused me to need a replacement once a year, no biggy. I always have a spare. If it's something that happens more frequently, then I need to consider whether it's worth it.

Just looking for opinions and experience....not expecting a cut-in-stone answer.

Thanks.
Charlie


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 26, 2019 02:36AM
I print PETG directly on glass on one printer, and on glass with PrintBite on top on another printer. No problems so far, but the print is easier to remove from the PrintBite.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 26, 2019 07:47AM
Thanks. I never heard about printBite, but I will check it out.

Do you use gloss or matt printBite? Do you have to let the bed cool down to remove prints?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2019 07:49AM by charlieRC.


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 26, 2019 02:52PM
My PrintBite sheet is quite old so I don't know how it relates to what is available now, but it has a gloss sheen on it. I heat the bed to 80C when printing PETG. I let the bed cool part way before I try to remove the print, then a sideways tap with a tiny hammer usually releases it.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 26, 2019 03:07PM
I've put kapton onto my printbed, not using glass, but it might work for you as well. If you have kapton laying around, it's worth a try. I happen to have bought a 100mm wide roll about six years ago so I just apply two layers of it onto my bed with Glassex window cleaner and place it, then use a squeegee to squash out the glassex from underneath the kapton and let it set overnight and presto.


http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 26, 2019 06:46PM
Hmmmmmm... Checked out printBite and it seems that with shipping to the US, it’s about twice the cost of a 100mm roll of kapton tape. I guess I will try that first and if not happy with my results, try the printBite. When dealing with two unknowns (to me), I guess it makes sense to gamble on the least expensive. Plus, shipping to the US from the U.K. takes a lot longer.

@Ohmarinus, your printing petG, current?


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 27, 2019 04:08AM
Quote
charlieRC
Hmmmmmm... Checked out printBite and it seems that with shipping to the US, it’s about twice the cost of a 100mm roll of kapton tape. I guess I will try that first and if not happy with my results, try the printBite. When dealing with two unknowns (to me), I guess it makes sense to gamble on the least expensive. Plus, shipping to the US from the U.K. takes a lot longer.

@Ohmarinus, your printing petG, current?

I have printed clear PetG in the past, with the exact same settings as my PLA and it worked just the same for me. PetG was way more flexable but still quite strong I noticed. It may depend on the brand of PetG you buy how well it sticks to the kapton.

The brand I bought was MTB3D but these guys sold their company and after that it soon turned into a vague brand without any philosophy. Now I think they don't really do much of anything anymore with the brand. The filament branch surely doesn't exist anymore.


http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 27, 2019 12:14PM
I priont PETg directly on glass, sometimes with hairspray.

I have never had trouble with the glass, and I use CHEAP glass. (8X10 picture frames from Dollarama.) the trick is basically to let it cool. I heat the glass to 65°C to print, and when it cools to room temperature, the print comes right off, no trouble. I use hairspray for larger area prints, particularly when the print will be thin, but I strongly suspect that I really don't need to.


MBot3D Printer
MakerBot clone Kit from Amazon
Added heated bed.

Leadscrew self-built printer (in progress)
Duet Wifi, Precision Piezo parts
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 28, 2019 11:54AM
Quote
charlieRC
I am a long time ABS printer and a PLA convert for some time now. Now I want to try petG as I am hearing that it has the best of PLA and ABS. Unfortunatly, I am also hearing horror stories about damage to glass beds. I tried a few bed configurations, but always come back to a quarter inch aluminum heat spreader with a quarter inch glass plate. (inertia is not a problem as my machine is coreXY) I have used hair spray for ever and am quite happy with how it works.

My quetions is: with a quarter inch glass bed (regular glass...not anything special), do I have to worry about petG destroying the glass. If it caused me to need a replacement once a year, no biggy. I always have a spare. If it's something that happens more frequently, then I need to consider whether it's worth it.

Just looking for opinions and experience....not expecting a cut-in-stone answer.

Thanks.
Charlie

I use borosilicate glass, the reason this glass works well is that is has a VERY low heat expansion that allows it to stand fast, high temperature changes without cracking. It isn't THAT expensive... Anyway, I use hairspray on glass for all my printing. With PETG, it is a good idea to let your print bed cool to ambient before trying to get the print off, then it just pops off, it'll stick like glue to the bed until it cools.

I have had ABS pull chips out of my borosilicate glass if I tried to remove it while the bed was still hot! So this isn't anything unique to PETG. I have found it nearly impossible to get a PETG print off the bed without damaging the print unless I let the bed cool way down. I print PETG on glass at 75C. If you don't mind using blue tape, you can print PETG to blue tape without heating the bed at all.

I love PETG, it is my favorite filament to use.
Have fun!
DLC


Kits: He3D K200 Kossel, Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, TronXY X5SA Pro kit, MiniCoreXY scratch build.
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 29, 2019 05:36PM
I am not sure why everyone wants to use Borosilicate Glass and heat to print PETG on. The glass does not bend very well and PETG does not require a heated bed. I have been printing PETG on Polycarbonate (.150" or 3.8mm) sheet for about a year now with addictive results.

Simply cut a piece of Polycarbonate to fit your bed and secure with the same clips used to hold the glass in place. I scuff the sheet with a Red 3M ScotchBrite pad till it has a satin finish. I do not use a heated bed or any sticky spray stuff and I do not use a raft. I print the part directly onto the Polycarbonate sheet, let cool then unclip the sheet from the bed and flex it over the edge of the desk. Part pops off then re-scuff the poly sheet. I also print PETG at 265C. I have also been printing PLA on the same type of Polycarbonate sheet with the same addictive results. For PLA if the part to bed contact area is small then I will add a little heat 35C. The part surface finish from the bed is very smooth and has a satin finish. I have had some PETG parts with really small bed contact area and in this case I will pre treat the Poly sheet with a 50/50 mixture of Iso Alcohol and brake cleaner. Premix the 2 together and dampen a soft cloth with the mix. wipe the Poly sheet and let dry. Part may be a little harder to remove, but they always come off with lots of bending and flexing.
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 30, 2019 09:50AM
So, if you use Polycarbonate, then you can only print on a cold bed, correct? I have heard conflicting reports that printing with a cold bed is ok, but that there is some advantage to a warmer bed. Of course, I don't know enough to tell fact from fiction.


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 30, 2019 02:25PM
If the Poly is heated too much the part may be difficult to remove. My best suggestion is to just try it. Printing PLA and PETG on a cold bed is how most folks print. Having a heated bed does not really do anything for warping on PLA or PETG, an enclosure is best. My Scratch Built printer does not have a heated bed.

Anyway just trying to make it easier for you to print PETG. I am just relating my experience with PETG.
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 30, 2019 05:49PM
Quote
charlieRC
So, if you use Polycarbonate, then you can only print on a cold bed, correct? I have heard conflicting reports that printing with a cold bed is ok, but that there is some advantage to a warmer bed. Of course, I don't know enough to tell fact from fiction.

If all you print is PETG or PLA, just print on blue tape without heat. Heating blue tape makes it stick less, so either do heated glass, or cold tape. The only reason that I don't like cold tape is that I'm always tearing it up and having to replace it. The only reason that I print on glass is that it is FLAT and I am too lazy to recalibrate or re-zero the Z axis by removing it and putting it back on between different filament types. Everything prints on hot glass, not so on blue tape.

It is all personal choice,
DLC


Kits: He3D K200 Kossel, Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta, TronXY X5SA Pro kit, MiniCoreXY scratch build.
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 31, 2019 10:13AM
PETG on PrintBite sticks pretty well so clean the Printbite with regular rubbing alcohol.
The mfg advises against it because it contains some oil !
Indeed and it is what you want, that it sticks a bit less. !!!!


"A comical prototype doesn't mean a dumb idea is possible" (Thunderf00t)
Re: petg and worries about my bed
May 31, 2019 07:42PM
I just tried an experiment that worked. This is probably old news to you all. I had an unused sheet of PEI and wondered what would happen if I just clipped it onto yhe glass plate without using adhesive. After clipping it on, I noticed that it didn’t lay completely flat in the center (maybe a 0.5mm bulge in the center. I figured that the BLtouch bed leveling would accommodate that. It did. Perfectly. This test was a cold bed with PLA. Tomorrow I will try the same thing with petG.


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
Re: petg and worries about my bed
June 11, 2019 09:30AM
I’ve had some luck with hairspray on glass lately. Watching some YouTube videos, I realize I have not been applying the spray correctly. That was ok with PLA, but petG requires a better process. So far, so good.


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
Re: petg and worries about my bed
June 11, 2019 01:50PM
Quote
MKSA
PETG on PrintBite sticks pretty well so clean the Printbite with regular rubbing alcohol.

That's what I use too.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: petg and worries about my bed
July 08, 2019 01:12PM
Update: I broke down and bought the printBite sheet for my coreXY (even though the shipping was as much as the product and took nearly a month to get it), and so far, I am very happy with it. Still tweaking my settings, but I've had hardly any adhesion issues. The product was very easy to install and best of all....no hair spray required. We"ll see what I think a month or two down the road, but right now I highly recommend the product. Thank you @dc42 for recommending it,.


If I haven’t screwed it up yet, I’m not thinking hard enough!

CoreXY, Titan Aero, Duet WiFi, custom design and build
Cartesian, E3D v6 hotend, Bondtech QR extruder, custom design and build
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