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Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)

Posted by AmyTheBun 
Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 26, 2019 11:53AM
I have an Anycubic i3 Mega-s with TMC2208 drivers in UART mode (TX Only)

So I've been having this issue, The noise you hear in this video is far louder and annoying IRL! So probably listen to it with high volume!

It only happens in the Y axis and if I move my bed alone it doesn't make the noise. when I de-attach the belt it moves freely without any issues or noise like this. So my bearings are fine.

when this noise does happen my belt tensioner and belt itself and the Y carriage and the bed to a degree vibrate with the same frequency as the noise.

in the past I used a belt spring. it almost stopped the noise. but I removed it after someone told me it causes issues. So I tried on my small 37mm motor on the Y axis. the noise was gone! but the motor isn't powerful enough for such a heavy Y axis (my carriage is heavy.) so I bought a new motor thinking it's the issue (The product number is: 42HD6021-03) but it's honestly even worse now. this time not even the belt spring can stop it! I've even tried the z axis motors in the Y axis but they acted the exact same. tho that was before I bought this motor.

I've asked for help in 4 different places and noone was able to help me so I'm really desperate. no one else with an Anycubic i3 mega has experienced this! it's very strange!

EDIT: Google photo's link since I realized the link I put there makes you download it to view it
[photos.app.goo.gl] mostly noticable at 0:03

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2019 07:22AM by AmyTheBun.
VDX
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 26, 2019 01:25PM
... sounds like resonancy - this can be reduced by rising the microstepping value and/or by changing the moved mass and belt tension ...


Viktor
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Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 26, 2019 11:33PM
the belt tension makes no difference. but should I maybe order my y carriage to be cut from a carbon fiber sheet? the included is SO heavy!
also can I increase the microstepping on my anycubic i3 mega-s and tmc2208? it's 8-bit
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 28, 2019 02:09PM
[youtu.be]

this is a better video on youtube. Anyone any ideas? if I want to make the noise less I have to losen it so much it skips. it's as lose as it can function! making it tighter does increase the noise.
I tried removing the glass on top to reduce the weight but nothing change. should I ask someone to cut me a new gantry out of aluminium or something? maybe carbon fiber sheet

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2019 02:10PM by AmyTheBun.
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 28, 2019 02:30PM
You're printing at a very high speed it seems. I don't know. Maybe you're just demanding too much of the machine? Both high speed and low noise? It sounds like a resonance by the way. Haven't heard this from my machine with the same drivers.


http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 30, 2019 02:56PM
Quote
Ohmarinus
You're printing at a very high speed it seems. I don't know. Maybe you're just demanding too much of the machine? Both high speed and low noise? It sounds like a resonance by the way. Haven't heard this from my machine with the same drivers.

It's printing at 45mm/s :c

removing the belt spring for the bigger motor actually reduced it and all. but now it only happens at 55-75mm/s and when doing a travel move. I guess if I stick to 45mm/s and print slow I won't have enough of an issue to keep me awake all night
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 31, 2019 05:24AM
Quote
AmyTheBun
Quote
Ohmarinus
You're printing at a very high speed it seems. I don't know. Maybe you're just demanding too much of the machine? Both high speed and low noise? It sounds like a resonance by the way. Haven't heard this from my machine with the same drivers.

It's printing at 45mm/s :c

removing the belt spring for the bigger motor actually reduced it and all. but now it only happens at 55-75mm/s and when doing a travel move. I guess if I stick to 45mm/s and print slow I won't have enough of an issue to keep me awake all night

When I had this issue, I lowered the print speed a bit and added some felt feet underneath my printer. This dampened the sound way more than using rubber feet. Maybe that will help as well? It does sound like resonance.


http://www.marinusdebeer.nl/
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
July 31, 2019 12:36PM
Quote
Ohmarinus
Quote
AmyTheBun
Quote
Ohmarinus
You're printing at a very high speed it seems. I don't know. Maybe you're just demanding too much of the machine? Both high speed and low noise? It sounds like a resonance by the way. Haven't heard this from my machine with the same drivers.

It's printing at 45mm/s :c

removing the belt spring for the bigger motor actually reduced it and all. but now it only happens at 55-75mm/s and when doing a travel move. I guess if I stick to 45mm/s and print slow I won't have enough of an issue to keep me awake all night

When I had this issue, I lowered the print speed a bit and added some felt feet underneath my printer. This dampened the sound way more than using rubber feet. Maybe that will help as well? It does sound like resonance.

My Anet A8 has always done this. The worst of the noise comes from the Y axis, it just seems "rougher". I reduced much of the noise by replacing the four linear bearings on the bed carriage with three drylin bearings (could not get four of them to align, but three would). It is still louder than my Z-bed-moving Cartesian printer by a long shot. I think that flinging the bed's mass around just vibrates a lot and if your system isn't "mil spec" stiff, it makes noise. My Delta printers are way noisier, except for one. On that delta I dropped the noise level a LOT by getting three felt chair leg pads, punching holes in the middle of them and bolting the printer to a rigid surface. The noise reduction was incredibly noticeable. Just putting the pads on the bottom didn't do much, but since the Makerbeam XL beams have threaded centers, I could bolt the unit down with the felt pads between the melamine and the printer uprights. It made a big difference.

DLC


Kits: He3D K200 Kossel, Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
August 01, 2019 12:12AM
I can't hear or make out the noise in your videos you're referring too, but one source of noise I found on one of my axis after building the printer was due to the belt not sitting in the middle of the pulley teeth, it was touching one of rims on the pulley which meant the teeth would ever so slightly catch on the pulley rim and produce clicking noise whenever it turned.

I fixed it by ever so slightly realigning the motor/pulley axis so that the belt sits in the middle of the teeth between the two rims (difficult to explain without pictures).

This may not be your source of noise, but no doubt this may help some out there.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2019 12:15AM by Pippy.
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
August 01, 2019 03:25AM
Quote
Ohmarinus
Quote
AmyTheBun
Quote
Ohmarinus
You're printing at a very high speed it seems. I don't know. Maybe you're just demanding too much of the machine? Both high speed and low noise? It sounds like a resonance by the way. Haven't heard this from my machine with the same drivers.

It's printing at 45mm/s :c

removing the belt spring for the bigger motor actually reduced it and all. but now it only happens at 55-75mm/s and when doing a travel move. I guess if I stick to 45mm/s and print slow I won't have enough of an issue to keep me awake all night

When I had this issue, I lowered the print speed a bit and added some felt feet underneath my printer. This dampened the sound way more than using rubber feet. Maybe that will help as well? It does sound like resonance.

I have foam and everything under my print. I even tried lifting my printer so it prints mid air!
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
August 01, 2019 03:29AM
Quote
dlc60
Quote
Ohmarinus
Quote
AmyTheBun
Quote
Ohmarinus
You're printing at a very high speed it seems. I don't know. Maybe you're just demanding too much of the machine? Both high speed and low noise? It sounds like a resonance by the way. Haven't heard this from my machine with the same drivers.

It's printing at 45mm/s :c

removing the belt spring for the bigger motor actually reduced it and all. but now it only happens at 55-75mm/s and when doing a travel move. I guess if I stick to 45mm/s and print slow I won't have enough of an issue to keep me awake all night

When I had this issue, I lowered the print speed a bit and added some felt feet underneath my printer. This dampened the sound way more than using rubber feet. Maybe that will help as well? It does sound like resonance.

My Anet A8 has always done this. The worst of the noise comes from the Y axis, it just seems "rougher". I reduced much of the noise by replacing the four linear bearings on the bed carriage with three drylin bearings (could not get four of them to align, but three would). It is still louder than my Z-bed-moving Cartesian printer by a long shot. I think that flinging the bed's mass around just vibrates a lot and if your system isn't "mil spec" stiff, it makes noise. My Delta printers are way noisier, except for one. On that delta I dropped the noise level a LOT by getting three felt chair leg pads, punching holes in the middle of them and bolting the printer to a rigid surface. The noise reduction was incredibly noticeable. Just putting the pads on the bottom didn't do much, but since the Makerbeam XL beams have threaded centers, I could bolt the unit down with the felt pads between the melamine and the printer uprights. It made a big difference.

DLC

maybe I can replace the shafts and bearings? I heard drylin have to be press-fit or otherwise are too loose. or 3d print pla bearings. even tho they could melt in an enclosure and last time I tried I had no luck.

I should add that my shaft doesn't vibrate whatsoever tbh. neither does my bearing. it's just the belt + pulley + y carriage. maybe if I get a/make a lighter carriage for my Y axis It'll be less obvious. it's a really heavy piece of steel! I could make it it out of 4mm aluminium and cut the X shape in it!
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
August 01, 2019 08:06AM
Quote
AmyTheBun


maybe I can replace the shafts and bearings? I heard drylin have to be press-fit or otherwise are too loose. or 3d print pla bearings. even tho they could melt in an enclosure and last time I tried I had no luck.

I should add that my shaft doesn't vibrate whatsoever tbh. neither does my bearing. it's just the belt + pulley + y carriage. maybe if I get a/make a lighter carriage for my Y axis It'll be less obvious. it's a really heavy piece of steel! I could make it it out of 4mm aluminium and cut the X shape in it!

Igus Drylin mounted as per Igus specs (refer to Igus docs, it is not just to press fit them) are not forgiving, they require a properly designed machine, that is not overconstrained, is properly aligned etc... .
If not, they will most of the time bind or at least require a lot of force to move !
Ball bearing based guides will usually "align" a flexible frame (they may "grind" their way), Igus bearings will not !

So in any case, they are silent, moving or blocked smiling smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2019 08:09AM by MKSA.


"A comical prototype doesn't mean a dumb idea is possible" (Thunderf00t)
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
August 01, 2019 02:22PM
Quote
MKSA
Quote
AmyTheBun


maybe I can replace the shafts and bearings? I heard drylin have to be press-fit or otherwise are too loose. or 3d print pla bearings. even tho they could melt in an enclosure and last time I tried I had no luck.

I should add that my shaft doesn't vibrate whatsoever tbh. neither does my bearing. it's just the belt + pulley + y carriage. maybe if I get a/make a lighter carriage for my Y axis It'll be less obvious. it's a really heavy piece of steel! I could make it it out of 4mm aluminium and cut the X shape in it!

Igus Drylin mounted as per Igus specs (refer to Igus docs, it is not just to press fit them) are not forgiving, they require a properly designed machine, that is not overconstrained, is properly aligned etc... .
If not, they will most of the time bind or at least require a lot of force to move !
Ball bearing based guides will usually "align" a flexible frame (they may "grind" their way), Igus bearings will not !

So in any case, they are silent, moving or blocked smiling smiley

Too true. The Igus Drylin bearings are NOT forgiving of an imperfect alignment. I replaced my original POS A8 Y-carriage with a better one that DIDN'T FLEX and specially modified the heated bed to take a three point mount instead of the four point Anet A8 pattern. I could not align four bearings in the system reliably, the hole pattern was not square. But I could get a three point bearing mount to align. I didn't care of the carriage was square as long as the movement path was. My A8 prints really well (after I replaced pretty much everything but the stainless rods). My next step is to secure it to a piece of OSB. Getting the frame square and flat helps a ton with noise reduction. I find that there are two fairly cheap options for a flat mounting material, OSB board and melamine table tops. Securely mounting the printer doesn't just tamp down the noise, the vibration reduction tends to keep bolts and nuts from coming loose as well. This means you stay in trim instead of constantly re-calibrating.

Reducing your bed weight will help you in a lot of ways on a Prusa style printer. Less mass == better acceleration and higher speed. It will almost certainly reduce backlash in your mechanics and that can help reduce vibration and noise. I have a heavy machined aluminum bed on my Cartesian printer, but that bed moves only in the Z plane, and not that fast or often. Things just have to be built right and square and the moving bits need to be as light as possible as long as they remain rigid. Heck, if you aren't printing ABS in an enclosure, PLA is _way_ stiffer than that nasty acrylic for chassis pieces!

I can go on and on, but you get the picture...

IMO,
DLC


Kits: He3D K200 Kossel, Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta
Re: Weird Noise in Y axis only (belt vibrating)
August 05, 2019 10:59AM
I found out something. this noise is much less in spreadcycle and if I push the bed towards the rear as it's moving the noise is greatly reduced. it mostly happens at 3800mm/s at 3600 for example it's much less.
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