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Printing issues.. at a loss

Posted by jdebuhr 
Printing issues.. at a loss
January 23, 2020 10:07PM
I posted a whiel back on getting reprapguru printer.. I printed a cube, Benchy and a couple puzzle pieces. My daughter wanted something printed and it gets to random locations in the print and just stops feeding filament. I have tried different temperatures, I have tried Prusa slicer and Cura slicer. I can't figure it out. I always check the bed level and it starts fine and then ends up not working.. Beyond frustrated.. what else can I do?

Now a fan burnt out and does not work.. I just want a working printer..
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 24, 2020 12:09AM
The fan on the hotend is required to be fully working or the extender gets jammed up.


.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 26, 2020 11:16PM
Quote
Dust
The fan on the hotend is required to be fully working or the extender gets jammed up.


.

yep, that fan works. the second fan that was cooling the tip(?) broke

both fans working today and still issues.. I level the bed, start a print and gets part way through and stops feeding.. I found the unit clogged, took it apart and now have it set up again.. Since it is a knock off Hot end I wonder if I need a better one. I will try again later this week..

IS it common to have to replace the heat break, nozzle and heater block a lot?
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 27, 2020 01:38AM
There are many reasons why a hot-end clogs.

Generally speaking, if it's time-related (e.g. it starts printing, and then stops after a few layers), then it's to do with heating and cooling.

It could be that heat is creeping from the heater up the throat, causing the the filament to swell and jam.

It could be that the extruder stepper is overheating, or or(more likely) that the extruder stepper driver is overheating.

Or a cooling fan that's not doing it's job.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 27, 2020 07:18AM
A picture of the hot end would be appreciated.
We need a lot more information to narrow down the possibilities.
Direct feed or Bowden?
Material ?
Hot end type.
Setting for temperature, retraction, etc.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 27, 2020 07:37AM
So I think longer prints it is the stepper driver overheating. The shorter problems I found to be a clog in the path. I moved the wiring of the one main fan to be on with power on, before it would come on after the print starts, maybe that is part of the problem as it takes more time to heat up leading to more soak time prior to printing?

I printed a 20mm cube and 3DBenchy without issue, then tried printing something else the next day and have been pretty much unsuccessful. I tried the 20mm cube again and it printed.. then tried the other bigger Olmert with no luck. Last night I could not get too far on the cube.

Thanks f the steeper drive overheats what is the fix, I have heat sinks on the modules on the Ramps board. I also have a Rambo board to try, but don’t have heat sinks for that one yet
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 27, 2020 07:38AM
Quote
MCcarman
A picture of the hot end would be appreciated.
We need a lot more information to narrow down the possibilities.
Direct feed or Bowden?
Material ?
Hot end type.
Setting for temperature, retraction, etc.

Sure I can get that info.. might be tonight or tomorrow once I get time to mess with it again
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 27, 2020 12:51PM
Quote
jdebuhr
Thanks f the steeper drive overheats what is the fix, I have heat sinks on the modules on the Ramps board. I also have a Rambo board to try, but don’t have heat sinks for that one yet

A fan on the motherboard to cool them. Or bigger heatsinks. Also, I think, if your stepper drivers aren't adjusted to give the right amount of current, they will heat up more.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 29, 2020 07:27AM
While I have not had a chance to get back physically to this.. I know the mechanical portion works. That said, I am going to use my Rambo board and connect it in place of the ramps board. That should help eliminate the overheated drivers. I will probably use it with the 'STOCK' LCD, then upgrade to to the other LCD i have.. not sure

I did rebuild the hotend and found a couple what looked like clogs in the old. next up will be a non-clone hotend.. then maybe a better frame to replace the acrylic frame, once I prove I can print again
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 29, 2020 10:17PM
Pictures attached, it looks like a V6 clone. I am trying to print with PLA. I will
Post again with the other details as these are paired from my phone


Added Temperatures I have tried 200 and 210.. I am not I know where to find the retraction info. I am also wondering is it possible I am pushing the filament too fast? Stepper was set to 90.

I swapped to the Rambo tonight and I still have issues, Stepper keeps moving, but it clogs. so I am wondering if it is the speed I am pushing it through as it looks like it is wrapping on itself.

It is a clone Hotend.. maybe I need a better one?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2020 10:24PM by jdebuhr.
Attachments:
open | download - 6AEAD85F-D3BE-49F2-B44C-B66354EC0CA5.jpeg (311.6 KB)
open | download - C9AA1E81-29FE-46C5-ACC2-5B8F3BEBA6EA.jpeg (232.9 KB)
open | download - AD9E0106-1C72-4E88-97E9-F616D8D0A25D.jpeg (345.4 KB)
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 30, 2020 05:30AM
On your 2nd picture it looks like the hotend fan is blowing against the X-Carriage.
If yes, I think this might be your problem. The path for the air has to be free of obstacles, else there won't be enough cooling of the upper part of the hotend and thus clogging of the heatbreak.

Had this Problem a while ago with am Anet A2 with an E3D-V6 Clone.

switched position of the hotend-fan and the print colling fan and everything worked fine.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 05:31AM by Dancer.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 30, 2020 06:16AM
I will disassemble that and take a look..

In my searching around I also read about calibrating the Extruder stepper,would this cause problems as well. I also noticed when it clogs the unit (pulley and year) does not click, I took it apart and the pulley can rock and has some play. I was going to replace it but then thought if I switch the extruder/hot end assembly that would get replaced as well

EDIT: Added a picture of the Fan mount prior to original assembly

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 07:02AM by jdebuhr.
Attachments:
open | download - IMG_1305.jpeg (535.4 KB)
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 30, 2020 07:30AM
Many people have issues with PLA clogging. It is often related to the heat transfer up the filament so getting a good print temperature is important.
There's history here of people printing PLA between 180 and 220C. We don't know the accuracy of your temperature reading but try and keep the temperature as low as possible.
Good move to keep the hot end fan powered continuously.
If you find the retraction setting it probably needs to be less than 1.5mm for your direct extruder.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 30, 2020 08:20AM
Is the retraction setting in one of the marlin configuration files? Or is it in the eeprom?
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 30, 2020 09:41PM
Couple pictures.. back side of fan mount as it came.. there is a slight blockage at the bottom..

Picture of hotend assembly along with the mount just above the assembly

Picture or filament that came out of hotend when I removed it. The thin ‘tail’ was closest to the nozzle.

I think I just need to replace it with a non clone..

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2020 09:42PM by jdebuhr.
Attachments:
open | download - A6D8AE31-422F-4ACA-8340-AC14523EEC16.jpeg (212.1 KB)
open | download - F623F8C3-13C5-4B73-9E3E-EF0D6EBD510D.jpeg (213 KB)
open | download - 4F234E7B-5661-4BCB-BD50-07683B515E97.jpeg (225.2 KB)
open | download - DD1CFA80-1EF9-4FC6-8126-00A97FBAC8C0.jpeg (244.5 KB)
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 31, 2020 02:19AM
Your last picture shows the problem. This hot end has a PTFE liner that doesn't go far enough, leaving a gap or is missing.


"A comical prototype doesn't mean a dumb idea is possible" (Thunderf00t)
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 31, 2020 06:01AM
Well that is one issue with the missing PFTE, although it never shipped with any PFTE tubing. The other issue is the heat break I have never gets narrow. I was thinking of buying the e3d lite6 but migh just get the e3d V6 and be done.. too many issues with clones
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 31, 2020 07:10AM
Quote
jdebuhr
Well that is one issue with the missing PFTE, although it never shipped with any PFTE tubing. The other issue is the heat break I have never gets narrow. I was thinking of buying the e3d lite6 but migh just get the e3d V6 and be done.. too many issues with clones

A full metal is the way to go BUT it must be of good quality as poor surface finish and/or dimension will also lead to similar blockage. A PTFE tube in the hotend is an easy but so so solution, just good enough for PLA.

I make my own, so much junk around or too bulky (even the price) for the few good ones.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2020 07:10AM by MKSA.


"A comical prototype doesn't mean a dumb idea is possible" (Thunderf00t)
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 31, 2020 07:29AM
So the PTFE is not required? I see it is shown with the e3d V6 and e3d lite6. I need to adapt either to fit. Next piece for me will be to replace the frame. The printer I have is a reprapguru purchased for me as a gift from my wife.. apparently she got it cheaper than what I have seen them listed for. I know the acrylic is not the best, but many of the parts seem good. If I can get it to print better with the e3d head, then I will get a nicer frame
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 31, 2020 01:03PM
The Lite6 has PTFE all the way down to the nozzle, so the PTFE is in the hot part of the hot end and will limit your printing temperature to around 240C at most. The V6 (if using 1.75mm filament) requires a shorter piece of PTFE that stops while it is still in the "cold" part of the hot end - there is no PTFE in the part of the nozzle that gets hot so the temperature is not limited by the PTFE.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2020 01:03PM by MMcLure.
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
January 31, 2020 09:12PM
Retraction setting was length of 2mm
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
February 04, 2020 05:45PM
Quote
jdebuhr
So the PTFE is not required? I see it is shown with the e3d V6 and e3d lite6. I need to adapt either to fit. Next piece for me will be to replace the frame. The printer I have is a reprapguru purchased for me as a gift from my wife.. apparently she got it cheaper than what I have seen them listed for. I know the acrylic is not the best, but many of the parts seem good. If I can get it to print better with the e3d head, then I will get a nicer frame

I think what MKSA is telling you is that you haven't pushed your Bowden tube far enough into the heat sink to get all the way to the heat break. That is what it looks like to me. On top of that, you have what looks to be heat creep if it melted that much above the heat break. Make sure that your fan is mounted all the way at the bottom of the fins, that is the critical cooling point. You can make an E3Dv6 jam every time with a bad setup, and get a crappy reprap v6 fake to work just fine by setting it up right and tweaking.

We have a failure to communicate going on too, I think. There are two places where PTFE tubes are used: cheap hot-ends have a tiny PTFE tube in the heat break for smooth filament flow, every Bowden and some direct extruder setups have the big PTFE tube on the outside of the hot end. The bug PTFE does not go into the heat break, it snugs up against the top of it.

DLC

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2020 05:45PM by dlc60.


Kits: He3D K200 Kossel, Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
February 04, 2020 06:52PM
Thanks.. it is interesting as I bought the E3d lite6 and while I have not installed the directions have the PTFE go all the way to the nozzle. So my cheap Chinese setup is similar and I am able to print. I might get a better heat break where the PTFE will only go to the top. I have direct setup currently with the big PTFE.

There are so many different nozzle/hot end styles is any one better than the other?
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
February 04, 2020 11:37PM
Quote
jdebuhr
Thanks.. it is interesting as I bought the E3d lite6 and while I have not installed the directions have the PTFE go all the way to the nozzle. So my cheap Chinese setup is similar and I am able to print. I might get a better heat break where the PTFE will only go to the top. I have direct setup currently with the big PTFE.

There are so many different nozzle/hot end styles is any one better than the other?

The E3D lite6 has the PTFE in the heat break like all the non-all-metal ones. I am all about the "all-metal" ones so I do not have to worry about poor thermistors or PID tunes being a little off and the heater going over 240C. If you only print PLA, PETG and TPU, the hot ends with PTFE in the heat breaks will work fine, you'll really never have to go over about 230C.

DLC


Kits: He3D K200 Kossel, Folgertech Kossel 2020 upgraded E3Dv6, Anet A8 upgraded E3Dv6, Tevo Tarantula enhanced parts and dual-head
Scratch: Large bed Cartesian, Linear slide Delta, Maker-Beam XL Micro Delta
Re: Printing issues.. at a loss
February 07, 2020 08:56AM
Printer has bee working decently now.. Thanks to all for the help and info. I would like to change the way the fan is mounted, but if I swap to the e3D V6 hot end I am thinking I will not even need PTFE tubing..

The heatsink I have might just need a better heat break that is like the e3d variation and I can mount as it is. otherwise I need to look into other ways to mount everything.. Then either print it or purchase as I am unable to print ABS due to the Lite6 style setup I am using.

the other challenge is bed leveling but that is a post for another topic
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