Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Did Repetier-Host went closed source?

Posted by sam0737 
Forum List Message List New Topic
sam0737
Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
February 21, 2014 05:03AM
I didn't notice it until I check the wiki [reprap.org]. I was looking for confirmation on the official website but I couldn't find any info if the it is currently open or closed source.

If it is, that would be a big lost to the 3DP community.
Reply Quote
bobc
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
February 22, 2014 12:30PM
You appear to be correct, the EULA from latest version (0.95F) reads as follows:

Quote

EULA (End User License Agreement) for Repetier-Host (hereinafter called software)

IMPORTANT, PLEASE READ THIS AGREEMENT CAREFULLY before you start installing the software. This EULA is a legal agreement between you (hereinafter called licensee) and the company Hot-World GmbH & Co. KG (hereinafter called licensor). By installing or using the software, you agree that you accept this agreement binding. If you do not agree with this agreement, do not install and use the software.

The software is protected by copyright. All rights to the program remain with the licensor.

§ 1 License
The licensor grants you a non-exclusive, non-sublicensable, non-transferable, limited license for this software. The software is free for personal and commercial use. It can be installed on as many computers as you like. It can be freely distributed and copied.

§ 2 Support und Updates
The licensor is not obligated to provide support, fix bugs or provide updates. In what type and frequency this happens is solely the responsibility of the licensor.

§ 3 Costs
By installing and using the software no costs arise.

§ 4 Restrictions
Reverse engineering, decompilation and disassembling the software are prohibited.

The software is based on Repetier-Host version 0.90 with Apache License, Version 2.0. Newly developed codes including bug fixes are no longer under the Apache License, Version 2.0. Exceptions are the translations, which still have an Apache License, Version 2.0.

§ 5 Warranty restriction
The Software is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either express or implied, including without limitation any implied warranties of condition, uninterrupted use, merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, or non-infringement. The Licensor does not give any guarantee or warranty to the accuracy or completeness of the software and the provided functions or their products. The licensor is not liable for any damages or viruses, trojans, malware or other malicious software that result from the use of the software. The program was written by the licensor to the best of knowledge and belief without malicious programs.

§ 6 Limitation of Liability
The author of this program is not liable for damage to software or hardware, or property damage caused by the use of the program, unless they are based on gross negligence or intent on the part of the author, his agents or his legal representatives.

Warning: 3D printers contain parts that are very hot and can cause a fire in case of errors or misuse. Therefore, 3D printers may only be operated under constant supervision. Also, toxins can be set free upon melting the filament depending on the material. Contact the manufacturer of the filament to ask for risks and dangers. The 3D printer may therefore be used only in well-ventilated areas.

§ 7 Privacy Policy
The Repetier-Host will automatically connect to the Internet to retrieve data from web servers to check for updates or to download advertising contents. It will not transmit personal data, statistics or files.

§ 8 Third-Party Software
This software contains or is accompanied by third-party software, data or other materials, which supplement the Repetier-Host functionality. For these programs, the licenses of the software applies. By accepting this license, you acknowledge and agree that you comply with the third-party terms and conditions and that the licensor has no responsibility and gives no warrenties for third-party software. You find these terms and conditions on the third-party web pages or in the about boxes.

So all rights reserved to the author. And with adverts for the user, nice.

It looks like the Makerbot business model, build a user base under the guise of Open Source and then pull the plug and sell out. Well, it worked for Makerbot.

It's sad that I won't be able to support Repetier any more, but I doubt anyone will care about that smiling smiley

What is Open Source?
What is Open Source Hardware?
Open Source in a nutshell: the Four Freedoms
CC BY-NC is not an Open Source license
Reply Quote
repetier
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
February 24, 2014 04:17AM
We tried the open source model for over 2 years. User contributions were very low, so nearly all work was done by us. So we ended working 10 hours a day 7 days a week which we could not spend earning money. In addition other used our work for their profit without sharing it with us. Fortunately not all companies go that way. Quite some printer vendors support us with custom host version and we believe this step will even increase the number of supporters, so we can keep a free host version with new features. The alternative would be to stop developing the host, which would be even more lost to the community.

Repetier-Software - the home of Repetier-Host (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and Repetier-Firmware.
Repetier-Server - the solution to control your printer from everywhere.
Visit us on Facebook and Twitter!
Reply Quote
nicholas.seward
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
February 27, 2014 06:51PM
@repetier: I certainly understand what you are saying. Making money and feeding your family is more important. I am curious about a few things.

So as of v.90, you are no longer sharing the source code?

If the answer is yes, would you consider sharing the source code under a open/non-commercial license. This will continue to support the community but will require anybody that wants to package your host with a printer negotiate a license with you.

Also, is the firmware going to remain open source?

ConceptFORGE
Wally, GUS Simpson, LISA Simpson, THOR Simpson, Sextupteron, CoreXZ
Reply Quote
repetier
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
February 28, 2014 03:49AM
We thought about different licences, but think that option is too risky. Since 0.95 we have a plugin architecture as an alternative. Once it stabilizes, we might publish the interface so others could still extend/modify the host to some extend. But the interface is still evolving, so describing it now would confuse more then help.

With the firmware it is easy. Is is GNU licensed and will definitely stay free and open source for ever.

Repetier-Software - the home of Repetier-Host (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and Repetier-Firmware.
Repetier-Server - the solution to control your printer from everywhere.
Visit us on Facebook and Twitter!
Reply Quote
bobc
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 04, 2014 07:25AM
Quote
nicholas.seward
@repetier: I certainly understand what you are saying. Making money and feeding your family is more important. I am curious about a few things.

So as of v.90, you are no longer sharing the source code?

If the answer is yes, would you consider sharing the source code under a open/non-commercial license. This will continue to support the community but will require anybody that wants to package your host with a printer negotiate a license with you.

Also, is the firmware going to remain open source?

Actually, that is not true. Under an Open Source license (e.g. GPL etc), anyone is free to use the code for commercial reasons, provided they redistribute source they use and meet other obligations of the license. The dual license allows people to package the software without providing source, but can't restrict people's use under the Open Source license. A license with an NC clause is not considered an Open Source license.

A dual license would also require a Contributor Licence Agreement, where any community sourced modifications would need to be assigned ownership to Repetier, or excluded from the commercial version.

Dual licensing is really not a very good path for community projects.

What is Open Source?
What is Open Source Hardware?
Open Source in a nutshell: the Four Freedoms
CC BY-NC is not an Open Source license
Reply Quote
lewin76
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 05, 2014 02:42PM
As a C# developer who only recently discovered the joys of reprap, I've relied on and promoted Repetier as the premier printing suite for these amazing open hardware printers. Hearing that you've chosen to abandon the ideals of open software is discouraging and ensures you've lost a fan, evangelist and potential customer. On the bright side it seems the GitHub project was still receiving official public commits up to Dec. 2013 and for that and all the hard work you guys have done to date, I have to say thank you and it's sad to see you go. However, I'm hopeful that the community will step in and continue to advance the open source version into something that lives on and continues to improve. Until then it looks like I'll be switching to the Marlin firmware to ensure I'm using, and thereby endorsing, the best project for the community.
Reply Quote
csselph
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 08, 2014 02:59PM
@lewin76 MatterControl is a C# project that recently went open-source. We'd love any contributions you'd be willing to make for the software.
Reply Quote
lewin76
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 08, 2014 07:00PM
Nice, and you're a stone's throw away from Santa Monica. I'll definitely pull down a copy and take a look.
Reply Quote
paucus
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 16, 2014 11:08AM
I understand your dilemma… While we did contribute to Repetier with source code, you still need to make some profit to be able to dedicate so much time to it. Open Source is great but how do you make a living? What if you asked for a voluntary fee from all printer manufacturers that allow/recommend using Repetier, a low fee, maybe $5 or $10 per printer sold? I don’t know if that would be enough, but it would be a beginning. Also what if you had some commercial features that manufacturers might be willing to pay more for, such as branding with their logo, or including a change that has not made it into trunk yet but which they want, or appeariing in a list of official supporters of Repetier, for instance?

Repetier is excellent, and we do need to include changes in it to make it work better with some feature unique to our printers, so if it goes closed it’s really a dilemma for us or any manufacturer whether to continue recommending it. What kind of fees do you think would let one continue to have access to the latest code? what if you do make contributions to the code, could you use it as partial or full payment? If you make these decisions and make them public, transparent, fair then probably you can keep the support of the community and the ecosystem you’ve so generously helped create in the RepRap printer space.

Regards,

Paucus
Reply Quote
Chowderhead
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 23, 2014 10:16AM
That's really bad news. Repetier's products were the best offering, in my opinion, and now I have to look for something else.

Anyone working full time on free open-source software and not getting fair compensation (i.e. being employed by someone making a profit on something else) is asking for heartbreak and frustration. I thought the point of FOSS was to get community involvement, not just compensation from the community. Clearly something is missing from the model that permits this to happen. Since the only lever a developer has is development time committed, then that is what they should exercise. I for one never expected you, Repetier, to work 70 hours a week on this. While the regular updates are nice, I would have been happier to have fewer of them and still enjoy using a product from an ecosystem that I firmly believe is the only healthy alternative to the sick commercial software system we're all inured of.

Expectations are everything. Expecting a big payday, someday, and working like it's inevitable isn't realistic; a community expecting full time development at no cost is deluded.

Repetier, as I said in a couple emails, I'd be happy to contribute, but I won't use Paypal and you haven't provided an alternative. I'll still kick you some money – your products have served me very well. Give me an alternative, otherwise farewell and good luck. I hope your expectations are met somewhere.
Reply Quote
robr45acp
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 23, 2014 01:13PM
if you're closed and you put out a good product. I'll buy it. count me in for the long haul. just don't put backdoors in and send sneaky data to the NSA. that would piss me off.
Reply Quote
Daid
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 28, 2014 06:09AM
Cura, still OpenSource, still going strong. No reason to change.

As Ultimaker we stand behind our OpenSource model. I completely disagree with the "we got very few contributions, so we better close it", the value of OpenSource is not just about code contributions. It's about open development, about advancing 3D printing for everyone. It's about open discussions. It's about the feeling of sharing and working together. (Even if I can be an ass sometimes)
Reply Quote
repetier
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 28, 2014 08:02AM
Ultimaker makes money with selling printers. So it is possible to finance open source development with the sells. We sell no hardware, so we have to live from our software development. 2 people are working full time on this and we need to make the money to pay the bills - this is not the hobby project it started with. This step helped us to get more monetary contributions from printer vendors, so we can still work on it and keep a free version available. An other aspect is, that it is more likely that the project will survive. And it is still open for own improvements through our documented plugin system (http://rhplugins.repetier.com).

We thought long about that step. On the one side we like open source software. On the other side we had to stop development and support if we had to continue the old way, because it got too much work for us. So we made this step to keep the free host versions and also be able to improve the still open source firmware. Till now we can say, that it was the right way so we can expect a lot more updates and improvements in the future.

Repetier-Software - the home of Repetier-Host (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and Repetier-Firmware.
Repetier-Server - the solution to control your printer from everywhere.
Visit us on Facebook and Twitter!
Reply Quote
ScottS
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 28, 2014 09:44AM
i am very impressed with the software and think the community benefited greatly from it being available for free. i built an open source printer and used an open source host for free.

I also made a contribution via paypal.

At this point I would be hapy to buy the program and someone trying to get their printer running would be happy to buy repetier. I think the open source model is great to get it off the ground and get the bugs out ( the community participates and makes it better , at the same time they get the benefit of using it ) but when the product reaches the point in the development cycle where it takes full time staff to keep it up , it should logically shift to a different business model. I think this is natural evolution and not to be discouraging to anyone. If we want the product to survivive this is to be expected. I will not try to get onto all the theoretical anti-business concepts etc. Bottom ine is , we need a host that works.

On a related topic I have tried to give money to netfabb because I use their cloud service a lot , but the method they chose to accept payments ( flattr) is not workable for me. I wish they had paypal.
Reply Quote
Daid
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 28, 2014 11:25AM
Quote
repetier
Ultimaker makes money with selling printers. So it is possible to finance open source development with the sells. We sell no hardware, so we have to live from our software development. 2 people are working full time on this and we need to make the money to pay the bills - this is not the hobby project it started with. This step helped us to get more monetary contributions from printer vendors, so we can still work on it and keep a free version available. An other aspect is, that it is more likely that the project will survive. And it is still open for own improvements through our documented plugin system (http://rhplugins.repetier.com).
Sorry if I express little love for Repetier. It's not only that you went closed source now. But, also, when I started Cura, Repetier was also just started. And I pretty much got all pitchforks and torches from RepRap people for starting my own project instead of contributing to Repetier.

Now, your timing is great however. As the UM2 open-sources files are going online any day now.
Reply Quote
kscharf
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 29, 2014 06:45PM
It appears from the EULA and what I've read on their site that the host software remains free (as in beer) though closed source. I thought that the software was derived from Teacup or Marlin, if either of those are GPL then Repetier-Host must have had ALL of the GPL'ed code removed to go closed source.

As long as it is LEGAL to freely download Repetier-Host, I might still use it. I will certainly install it side by side on my PC with Pronterface and I will evaluate both of them to see which works best for me. If my interests lay in the software side of 3D printer development, I would not consider a closed source software, However at this point I am more interested in the HW, so I will use whatever software is available to me. If I were going to be developing a 3D printer for sale, I would certainly consider using closed source software, IF the developer would support me.
Reply Quote
repetier
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
March 30, 2014 03:34AM
Teacup and Marlin are firmwares and the repetier-firmware is and will remain opensource, as it is GPL licensed. And it was based on Sprinter. Marlin did not exist, when we started with it's development.

The Host was licensed at the beginning under Apache 2.0 license, so the change was no problem and is legal.

Repetier-Software - the home of Repetier-Host (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and Repetier-Firmware.
Repetier-Server - the solution to control your printer from everywhere.
Visit us on Facebook and Twitter!
Reply Quote
kscharf
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 01, 2014 04:44PM
You're correct, I got the firmware confused with the (PC) software.
I see on your download page you are not "selling" the host software, it seems to still be free to download the executables.
What exactly is your policy here? Are individuals legally able to download and use the host software? Do we have to buy a license?
What is the cost (or are you only selling to OEM's)?
Reply Quote
kscharf
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 01, 2014 04:47PM
Will Matter-control compile for Linux with Mono? Any Ubuntu packages planned?
Reply Quote
nicholas.seward
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 01, 2014 06:54PM
I am going to preface this by saying that I personally don't like that Repetier-Host is closed source now but I feel that I need to inject some obvious facts on to the forum.

1) Repetier-Firmware is open source as stated above
2) Recent versions of Repetier-Host are closed source.
3) A still available version of Repetier-Host that was worked on at least within the last 4 months according to GitHub is still open source.
4) Anyone that would like a derivative of Repetier is free to fork any of the versions that had an open license.
5) Closing the source of future versions doesn't remove or nullify work done in the past.
6) It is easy to have opinions on what others should do. I am sure someone that is spending 80 hours/week has thought of all the positives and the negatives of this decision.

@repetier: You and your team have made and are making huge contributions to the community. Thanks for an amazing product that has great value and you are offering it for free. I wish you luck.

ConceptFORGE
Wally, GUS Simpson, LISA Simpson, THOR Simpson, Sextupteron, CoreXZ
Reply Quote
repetier
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 02, 2014 03:18AM
Our plan is to keep an open host version. We will also continue to improve the plugin structure, so that also closed source, any one can add his functionalities. So the difference is not as big as one might think.

@kscharf You can surely use the free host version for free. We make our money with customized version for printer vendors, who pay a fee to get a optimized version for their printers with included drivers, printer settings and slicer settings.

Repetier-Software - the home of Repetier-Host (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and Repetier-Firmware.
Repetier-Server - the solution to control your printer from everywhere.
Visit us on Facebook and Twitter!
Reply Quote
sakunamary
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 02, 2014 05:28AM
good job repetier!

I hope that repetier-firmware will keep open source....so that I can make more modification for this great firmware !spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
Reply Quote
kscharf
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 02, 2014 09:09AM
@repetier Out of curiosity, can you mention which printer makers have included Repetier-Host with their products? The free-download I have been experiementing with (I don't yet have a working printer hooked up so I am just exploring the settings and slicing stl files) seems much more responsive and friendly than pronterrface.
BTW, just a hint, your installer for Linux should install the Mono patch that permits 250K baud (if it doesn't already). This problem will go away once Mono V3 is packaged.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 09:10AM by kscharf.
Reply Quote
repetier
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 03, 2014 03:34AM
Vendors with custom versions can be found at the bottom of this page: [www.repetier.com]

That does not mean it does not work with others as well.

I can not include the mono patch, as it will differ for the 30 linux distributions of the near past. At least I think so, if it is a package installer.

Repetier-Software - the home of Repetier-Host (Windows, Linux and Mac OS X) and Repetier-Firmware.
Repetier-Server - the solution to control your printer from everywhere.
Visit us on Facebook and Twitter!
Reply Quote
iXce
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 06, 2014 04:56PM
Quote
Daid
Cura, still OpenSource, still going strong. No reason to change.

As Ultimaker we stand behind our OpenSource model. I completely disagree with the "we got very few contributions, so we better close it", the value of OpenSource is not just about code contributions. It's about open development, about advancing 3D printing for everyone. It's about open discussions. It's about the feeling of sharing and working together. (Even if I can be an ass sometimes)

Printrun, still open source as well, still progressing too smiling smiley
Not sure how much closing Repetier's source will improve its profit margin... Let's hope it works out well for you, but still very sad to see such a move.
Reply Quote
berni_
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 30, 2014 08:08AM
repetier, I have a suggestion: you can try to promote open source software development for Repetier to technical universities around the world.
It's a funny project for students, is useful for universities to extend their visibility
Reply Quote
MrDoctorDIV
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
April 30, 2014 01:03PM
Why do people claim herecy and jump ship at the slightest whif of non-open source? I guess extremists live in every community.
I still love Repetier, and as a non-programmer I felt absolutely no change when they went closed. maybe I'd have a different opinion if I was a programmer, but as I am I have absolutely no problem with their decision and will continue to use, love, and recommend both their firmware and host. If anything this has made me more loyal to them to see them recieve such upturned noses and still continue to provide to the same group of people.
Reply Quote
BLAXTAR
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
May 02, 2014 06:31AM
i don't understan the reasons, its still open and free?

if its closed it means that nobodyelse can contribute or we have to pay for use it now?

im not printing now, but i will build 3 or more printers in a few weeks.
Reply Quote
vreihen
Re: Did Repetier-Host went closed source?
May 02, 2014 06:52AM
For the majority of the users, all that they care about is where to get the binary executable file and how much it costs (still free in this case).

A few people think that having the source code used to generate that binary file available for inspection and modification is important. I have no intention to modify the code, but like the idea of open-source so that I know (hopefully!) there's some peer review of the code going on. Microsoft and Adobe keep their source code locked up, and their products are full of security holes that might have been caught years ago had someone from outside the company reviewed the code. What Repetier has done is to stop distributing the source code for their client software, making it closed-source.....
Reply Quote
Page 1 of 2    Pages: 12Next
Newer Topic Older Topic
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login