Kisslicer for Tantillus

I am not really ready to release these files but since I mentioned it in another thread I figured I should let all of you try it out.

Kisslicer

Advantages:

Faster slicing
Less retracting and stringing
Wipe feature that reduces bumps to zero
Working support
More tolerant of bad files
Less settings
Intelligent speed changes
Sparse support layers on top of infill to support Solid infill
Raft function
Rounded hex infill for smoother movements
You can move the model around the bed (not just the center)

Disadvantages:

Only one infill (hex)
No bridge settings (none needed so far)
No built in Z offset function (see below step 10)
Poor fan control (see below steps 13,14,15)

Ok if you would like to be a Beta tester for Kisslicer for Tantillus here you go.

Before you start we need to make a few changes in the firmware.
Open configuration.h and search for "auto_fan_min" and set it to 8 . (this can be changed for Slic3r as well)
Search again for "min_software_endstops" and change it to true. (needs to be false to use Slic3rs Z-offset)
Now you are ready to set up Kisslicer.


1) Download the attached zip. Kisslicer.zip

2) Unzip folder.

3) Download appropriate version of Kisslicer 1.0.9 [kisslicer.com]

4) Place downloaded file into previously unzipped folder.

5) Start Kisslicer.

6) FIX color scheme before you throw up.

7) Set the speed slider to 60%.

8) Select Tantillus from the Printer drop down.

9) Select a profile from the Style drop down to match your nozzle and desired resolution.

10) REALLY IMPORTANT Go to preferences, advanced settings and then the Gcode tab. In the gcode tab you will need to set the Z offset under Gcode prefix. Find G92 Z0.3 and change 0.3 to match the offset you had set in Slic3r. This works if you are too far from the bed when you start. If the head is too close to the bed you will need to set the G92 Z0.3 to Z0.0 and find G1 Z0 F6000 and change Z0 to Z0.3 (whatever number you need not necessarily 0.3)

11) Load model.

12) Slice model and save wherever you would like.

13) REALLY IMPORTANT Open the produced gcode file in a decent text editor with find and replace function.

14) REALLY IMPORTANT Use find and replace to search for M106 and replace with M106 S120 (or whatever fan speed you feel is the max you need)

15) REALLY IMPORTANT Use find and replace to search for M107 and replace it with M106 S8 (or higher for fans other than the ones I supply)

16) Save changes to Gcode file

17) Load gcode file onto SD card or use pronterface to print it.

18) Enjoy faster easier printing.

If any of you know how to write a post processing script to change the fan settings please let me know as it is the last thing that needs finishing before the actual release of Kisslicer for Tantillus. (note it needs to be in a language that is cross platform and requires the least dependencies).

P.S. Kisslicer has a new release coming out that is currently only available in Alpha state. It has a cleaner interface that you will be more comfortable with as it feels more like Slic3r. It also has a few new features that should further improve it.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Here are some prints I have done using Kisslicer so far.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Here are a few screenshots.

Current Kisslicer (after fixing the color scheme)


.

New Kisslicer in Alpha 2 currently









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2012 07:33PM by Sublime.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Can you take some pictures of the same STL processed with slic3r verses processed with kisslicer and printed?

I am printing the Make torture test at 75% size now to compare.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Ok here are the results. Remember this is scaled down to 75% so all these parts are really small. I have used a USb microscope to take these pictures. All the pictures are of the problem areas. Areas not shown turned out the same on both. These have had no cleaning. Both sliced with 0.5mm Coarse Profile (Tantillus Kisslicer 1.0.9 and Slic3r 0.7.2b profiles) and are 0.2mm layers.


Kisslicer posts They are round and very smooth to the eye

.


Slic3r posts Triangular shaped and rough

.


Kisslicer Thin walls All the walls are solid

.


Slic3r Thin walls Two of the walls are hollow

.


Kisslicer Arch Very smooth

.


Slic3r Arch Little bumps from the retracts

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Beautiful, thank you. I'm amazed at how much better kisslicer looks, I will have to give it a try.

Tried this last night, and found that the Windows version of Kissslicer bombs if you attempt to edit any of the configurations in the Tantillus files. Running the config files through unix2dos first solved this. No results to speak of yet as I forgot to set my filament diameter and it was getting too late for another run.

Off topic: Sublime, I noticed that in one of the photos above shows some sort of clip at the back of your build stage. The back of the glass on mine lifts up about a mm or so, and I haven't found a good solution. I have even cut and drilled a new acrylic top plate, but after a day of having the clips installed it started to lift again. The lift seems to stay constant after a while, so I just level the bed to account for it, but it's annoying nonetheless.

That looks great. Very encouraging.

I have KISSlicer installed and running now. My first print using KISSlicer is the Torture Test part with 100 micron layers. It's 18% through the printing process at the moment and looks very smooth and clean. I don't think it would be misleading that it's the best looking part I've been able to print so far. I'll know more in the morning.

Other subjective observations: Tantillus runs quieter and more smoothly using STL files generated by KISSlicer.

---

----------------
Lem Fugitt
3D Printing Dreams
Robots Dreams
"The map is not the territory."

Looks great, I will be trying it soon.

Does KissSlicer have "correct" math unlike slicer, so that the estep adjustment we were using to make slicer correct, is no longer needed and we can go to a true estep to length measurement?

pokey9000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tried this last night, and found that the Windows
> version of Kissslicer bombs if you attempt to edit
> any of the configurations in the Tantillus files.
> Running the config files through unix2dos first
> solved this. No results to speak of yet as I
> forgot to set my filament diameter and it was
> getting too late for another run.

Interesting, Ca you attach your new files here for others? Also so I can see the difference in the encoding so maybe I can provide them correctly.

>
> Off topic: Sublime, I noticed that in one of the
> photos above shows some sort of clip at the back
> of your build stage. The back of the glass on
> mine lifts up about a mm or so, and I haven't
> found a good solution. I have even cut and
> drilled a new acrylic top plate, but after a day
> of having the clips installed it started to lift
> again. The lift seems to stay constant after a
> while, so I just level the bed to account for it,
> but it's annoying nonetheless.

Yes that is my wooden machine and I found the wood bed too soft which caused the glass to lift at the back. My "clip" as you called it is the first few layers of a tree frog that I stopped printing and had in my scrap when I noticed the problem at a show so I clipped it to the bed and have not removed it since (months ago). I only had this issue on the wood bed machine though. Do you have your glass flush with the front edge of the bed?

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

tjhj2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Looks great, I will be trying it soon.
>
> Does KissSlicer have "correct" math unlike slicer,
> so that the estep adjustment we were using to make
> slicer correct, is no longer needed and we can go
> to a true estep to length measurement?

Good question. I did not re-calibrate my machine to use Kisslicer so I can not say for sure. I would say try some prints on your machine that is calibrated that way and let us know. Worst case is on a long print you will start to see it skip steps and need to lower the E-steps during the print to compensate.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Robots-Dreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That looks great. Very encouraging.
>
> I have KISSlicer installed and running now. My
> first print using KISSlicer is the Torture Test
> part with 100 micron layers. It's 18% through the
> printing process at the moment and looks very
> smooth and clean. I don't think it would be
> misleading that it's the best looking part I've
> been able to print so far. I'll know more in the
> morning.
>
> Other subjective observations: Tantillus runs
> quieter and more smoothly using STL files
> generated by KISSlicer.

Awesome to hear. Please be sure to post a pic for us. Do not be surprised if the arch gets broken during the print, Kisslicer does not lift the nozzle during moves so it is possible it could knock over small stuff a little easier.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Nice prints! Btw, the alpha2 version of KISSlicer does have "Z-lift", moving the head up for any travel longer than the Destring minimum length.

Jonathan

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...Do not be surprised if the arch gets broken
> during the print, Kisslicer does not lift the
> nozzle during moves so it is possible it could
> knock over small stuff a little easier.

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Interesting, Ca you attach your new files here for
> others? Also so I can see the difference in the
> encoding so maybe I can provide them correctly.
>

When I get home I'll post what I have. All I did was unpack the .zip you provided to my Linux box and run "unix2dos *ini". This fixes up the line terminations with DOS-style CRLF.

> Yes that is my wooden machine and I found the wood
> bed too soft which caused the glass to lift at the
> back. My "clip" as you called it is the first few
> layers of a tree frog that I stopped printing and
> had in my scrap when I noticed the problem at a
> show so I clipped it to the bed and have not
> removed it since (months ago). I only had this
> issue on the wood bed machine though. Do you have
> your glass flush with the front edge of the bed?

I have tried to put the glass flush with the front edge and also a couple mm back thinking the saw may have warped the acrylic a little near the edge. No difference. I wonder if having four fixed leveling screws is causing the acrylic to warp?

pokey9000 Wrote:
--------------------------------------------
> I have tried to put the glass flush with the front
> edge and also a couple mm back thinking the saw
> may have warped the acrylic a little near the
> edge. No difference. I wonder if having four
> fixed leveling screws is causing the acrylic to
> warp?

Possible but I would be inclined to say your glass is a little warped. Glass can be made in a few ways and some of them can leave one side not as flat as the other. Maybe try turning the glass over or around to see if it changes.

It could also be your clips are not large enough. I think I have had a few that fit a little tighter than others from the same batch of clips. You could even try the next size clip to see if that helped.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

I have the post processing script written and it sets both fan speeds and the Z-offset. All you need to do is open one file in a text editor and set the Z-offset. I will release the file soon to make the above process easier. (for those of you in a hurry)

Also if you end up using Kisslicer you could add yourself to the user poll [kisslicer.com]

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Are you able to replicate the issue I described about slicing the Tantillus printed parts with Kisslicer? [forums.reprap.org]

I'm still building my Tantillus but I've used Kisslicer extensively on other printers (Prusa, Ultimaker) and it's the best slicer I've found, from a quality and speed of slicing perspective. I've found that it is a bit aggressive on retraction and seems to generate a bit less efficient paths, causing a bit slower print time than other slicers, but the overall print quality is excellent.

j.samuels Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you able to replicate the issue I described
> about slicing the Tantillus printed parts with
> Kisslicer?
> [forums.reprap.org]

I just tried before and after repairing with netfabb and I get strange artifacts. I then confirmed there were no stray vertices floating around and found nothing. Have you reported the bug to Lonesock on the Kisslicer forum?

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Using KISSlicer with Tantillus is quite frustrating!

Why? Simple - now I want to go back and reprint a lot of the parts I printed using Slic3r!

The only problem was that the arch end separated from the print bed, as Sublime predicted. Everything else was perfect.

---

----------------
Lem Fugitt
3D Printing Dreams
Robots Dreams
"The map is not the territory."

I'll admit I've been skeptical about the claims of all of Slic3r's troubles, attributing many of my subpar prints to PEBKAC errors. Two prints after installing Kisslicer and I'm a convert.



There's some blobbing around the chin, which was cured with later overhangs just by slowing down a bit. Other than that I used the stock profiles.

As promised, my profiles are attached.

As for my bed lifting, I placed the glass against another piece of 6mm acrylic I have with clips, and I can see the lifting with one side and none on the other, so I'm suspecting the acrylic as opposed to the glass. The clips I have are oversized (1" I think) and I have some small ones that are just a little too small, so I'm trying to find some that are a good compromise. I don't typically do tall prints so it hasn't been a problem yet.

Awesome comparison Lem. I hope everyone sees your picture, I skipped over it the first time I read your post. Its too bad we did not listen to Billy sooner. We could have been having this much fun printing for the last few months.

Robots-Dreams Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Using KISSlicer with Tantillus is quite
> frustrating!
>
> Why? Simple - now I want to go back and reprint a
> lot of the parts I printed using Slic3r!
>
> The only problem was that the arch end separated
> from the print bed, as Sublime predicted.
> Everything else was perfect.
>
>

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

I find it amazing how the prints can improve by simply changing slicers. I thought the quality of prints was already at the top of FFF (FDM) printing and to see them improve like this I am really happy.

Yoda looks really smooth and I can not see any bumps or strings on his ears. Do you have a Yoda printed using Slic3r to compare with the Kisslicer one?

pokey9000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll admit I've been skeptical about the claims of
> all of Slic3r's troubles, attributing many of my
> subpar prints to PEBKAC errors. Two prints after
> installing Kisslicer and I'm a convert.
>
> [lh3.googleusercontent.com]
> yCvYBASI/AAAAAAAAAO4/nSHe-EceAMQ/s640/IMG_20121114
> _133148.jpg
>
> There's some blobbing around the chin, which was
> cured with later overhangs just by slowing down a
> bit. Other than that I used the stock profiles.
>
> As promised, my profiles are attached.
>
> As for my bed lifting, I placed the glass against
> another piece of 6mm acrylic I have with clips,
> and I can see the lifting with one side and none
> on the other, so I'm suspecting the acrylic as
> opposed to the glass. The clips I have are
> oversized (1" I think) and I have some small ones
> that are just a little too small, so I'm trying to
> find some that are a good compromise. I don't
> typically do tall prints so it hasn't been a
> problem yet.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Sublime,

I have been playing with Cura as well as KISSlicer in the past couple days. I have not printed anything from either slicer, but when viewed in repetier host the Cura gcode looks even better than KISSlicer. Both look miles better than Slic3r.

Cura is slightly slower than KISSlicer, but the UI is (IMO) easier to navigate, and it is fully open source. It also doesn't require payment for the full feature set.

Sublime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it amazing how the prints can improve by
> simply changing slicers. I thought the quality of
> prints was already at the top of FFF (FDM)
> printing and to see them improve like this I am
> really happy.
>

After crispy1's comments, I think I'll be trying Cura this weekend time permitting.

> Yoda looks really smooth and I can not see any
> bumps or strings on his ears. Do you have a Yoda
> printed using Slic3r to compare with the Kisslicer
> one?
>

I attempted to print a full-sized one months ago before I had flatted my motor shafts. The print ended about 1cm in when my extruder gear finally gave in. It had a fair number of bumpy spots, and that's with 0.72b. I tried 0.95 last weekend with Tantillus and got far more bumps. I'm mostly impressed with the way the overhangs were handled, especially the ears. I was expecting a mess. Usually no amount of cooling or slowing down will give me decent overhangs with Slic3r models, but this one came out pretty good with only a little tweaking.

There is a tiny bit of weirdness around the eyes though. It doesn't look like blobbing. IIRC there's another version of Yoda that's been cleaned up, so it may be due to a bad model.

crispy1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sublime,
>
> I have been playing with Cura as well as KISSlicer
> in the past couple days. I have not printed
> anything from either slicer, but when viewed in
> repetier host the Cura gcode looks even better
> than KISSlicer. Both look miles better than
> Slic3r.
>
> Cura is slightly slower than KISSlicer, but the UI
> is (IMO) easier to navigate, and it is fully open
> source. It also doesn't require payment for the
> full feature set.

I have also been working on Cura for Tantillus but currently you have to open setting.py and change it to use relative extrusion as the option is not available in the GUI. After using kisslicer for a little while I have to say I like the UI and the settings. Yes they are different from the ones developed by Enrique for SF and have been adopted by Slic3r etc. But that is because he went about fixing some of the problems in the prints differently. I actually think the way he has solved the print issues are better then the ones implemented in other slicers. The most notable is "wipe", it back tracks over the last path to prevent bumps and strings. This feature alone makes the prints a lot better. Once I have officially released Kisslicer for Tantillus I will finish up on the Cura settings and instructions. But I think Kisslicer will be the recommended slicer for Tantillus.

And yes the closed source nature of Kisslicer bothers me too but if you ask for support you get WAY better support from Jonathan on the Kisslicer forum then you ever get from any of the other Slicer developers so maybe he is doing it right. He has also vowed to release the code eventually. I think if enough people find it useful we should start a crowd funding campaign to raise funds to pay him to release the code under the GPL. The closed source nature was why I had never tried using Kisslicer (plus the strange terms and ugly color scheme).

Last thing is the time it takes to slice is really important to me. With Kisslicer it saves all the data during a slice so if you reslice it takes almost no time at all. So if you are trying to slice some strange object and need to make changes to the settings and reslice over and over it only takes a few seconds.

The biggest problem with Cura is it uses SF in the background which is really inefficient.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2012 07:18PM by Sublime.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

pokey9000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After crispy1's comments, I think I'll be trying
> Cura this weekend time permitting.

See my comment about opening setting.py and changing it to use relative extrusion.

> There is a tiny bit of weirdness around the eyes
> though. It doesn't look like blobbing. IIRC
> there's another version of Yoda that's been
> cleaned up, so it may be due to a bad model.

In the original (and the cleaned up one) the eyes are separate models and cause the paths to not be continuous and may even have small holes on either side.

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

OK I tuned a machine using the proper 5D method of confirming 100mm of filament is moved when requested and then printed the Starship Enterprise ncc1701D and it turned out really nice. I can not confirm if the parts turn out dimensionally accurate yet but I can say that I did not have any skipped steps from accumulated extra steps.

If you are using Kisslicer with Tantillus already and would like to try the new default steps per mm on E for the herringbone gears is 500 and the normal gears are 450. After changing it you should test and confirm you get 100mm of filament to move (I use retract to test not extrude).

Also the new Kisslicer coming out (1.1.0) has fa control and inset adjustment so you ca get perfectly accurate prints

---

FFF Settings Calculator	Gcode post processors	Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org	Mini Printable Lathe	How NOT to install a Pololu driver

Just a quick update on my progress with KISSlicer-

Rabbits:



Of course, I could have improved the Slic3r print by fine tuning the setup parameters. The primary point of this comparison is that KISSlicer produced a very good (still not perfect) print with no fine tuning. A big challenge in printing this particular part is the neck area as it blends up into the face. The maximum angle is right around 45 degrees. Slic3r has a hard time producing gcode that will print it smoothly without the plastic drooping a bit making the surface very rough. KISSlicer produced an acceptable part the first time.

Octopus:



One frustrating Slic3r problem I've been struggling with is the appearance of 'zits'. They appear when at the start/end of each outer surface layer and take quite a bit of fine tuning to minimize. KISSlicer, in comparison, is much more consistent and logical about the position where the outer surface layers start. Instead of random zits, KISSlicer creates gcode with the start/end positions aligned. (more about this later)

Model sports car seats:



And, my favorite-

Calibration Pyramid:

---

----------------
Lem Fugitt
3D Printing Dreams
Robots Dreams
"The map is not the territory."

As I mentioned in my previous post, KISSlicer tends to keep the start/end of each layer aligned as the height increases. Here's an example of the Squirrel print in PLA with 100 micron layers:



I can rotate the part so that the line of start/end points is positioned on the back of the part where it would be least objectionable. But, I would also like to minimize its visibility as much as possible.

Any suggestions about which KISSlicer parameters I should start tweeking?

---

----------------
Lem Fugitt
3D Printing Dreams
Robots Dreams
"The map is not the territory."