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Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.

Posted by richrap 
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 10, 2013 04:34PM
Oh geez Rich. Your vase progression gave me an idea.. Stacking dolls! Print in upper and lower parts and the image could be embossed or a lithophane.

What do you think? Robots or owls or classic?
[www.amazon.com]
[www.amazon.com]
[www.amazon.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2013 04:35PM by billyzelsnack.
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 10, 2013 05:49PM
Hi Billy, great idea, it would be rather cool to do Russian dolls with embossing, single wall thickness so you can pack a lot of them together. Real Russian dolls usually have about 10-15 in a basic set, I have a set with 24, the Guinness world record is a set with 51 stacked, we could beat that smiling smiley

Sublime has a very neat trick to print with just a few microns of embossing - see the Tantillus forum post here I think you could print a LOT of stacking dolls using a similar method of single wall and micro embossing. And you would only need to design one, scale it and the printer does all the hard work.

It doesn't say the need to be hand-made to beat the Guinnes world record...



Or how about stacking companion cubes, I did these a few months back, but the smallest one was only about 15mm, I'll try a few smaller.


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 10, 2013 08:40PM
I think this is about as small as an FFF machine can print an object before it becomes unrecognisable.

This is BenitoSanduchi's plus vase printed at 4% of the original and stands just under 4mm's tall (half the size of RichRaps smallest). Printed on the same machine as the other things I printed in the competition.

Specs:
0.48mm single wall
0.1mm layers
155c
Natural PLA



Really hard to get a picture of even with a USB microscope


With the point of a thumb tack in the top opening to show it is still hollow


Shown with the previous items to show the scale.


Measures just 3.94mm tall (should be 4mm but I had the first layer a little squished for adhesion)


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2013 09:52PM by Sublime.


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Attachments:
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open | download - 2013-02-10-153911.jpg (22.6 KB)
open | download - 2013-02-10-154417.jpg (46.8 KB)
open | download - CIMG2577.resized.JPG (266.8 KB)
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 10, 2013 09:33PM
Rich, Thanks! Those prints are amazing! When I try to go that small and hollow, Slic3r 0.9.8 infills the whole thing. How did you avoid that?

This whole thing is very timely for me. We just got some client work where they need us to print some really tiny stuff in Taulman nylon. Still not sure it's going to be possible given what they are looking for, but this competition highlights two things:
1. Our RepRaps (and other FDM machines) are far more capable of small scale stuff than we tend to think of them being.
2. It would be really cool to see more horsepower thrown just at printing smaller features and not at expanding the build envelope at the same time. Seems like a small FDM machine with a minuscule envelope could utilize higher precision linear components and do an even better job than what we're seeing on this post.

Cheers,
Ben


Ben Malouf

[benmalouf.com]
[acuitydesign.co]
[thingiverse.com]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 10, 2013 10:34PM





Sub Centimeter Tall Yoda winking smiley

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2013 10:37PM by Idolcrasher.


FabberForge - Printing Happiness

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Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 11, 2013 07:37AM
BenitoSanduchi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rich, Thanks! Those prints are amazing! When I
> try to go that small and hollow, Slic3r 0.9.8
> infills the whole thing. How did you avoid that?

Hi Ben, thanks, you need to turn down Slic3r's Solid infill Threshold area setting under print settings/Infill - it's default (70mm2) is usually way too high for most prints I keep it at 30 and for tiny printing just go down to 1 or 0.

> 1. Our RepRaps (and other FDM machines) are far
> more capable of small scale stuff than we tend to
> think of them being.

And faster than most/any commercial machines, even resin printers have a minimum layer time, so it's still faster to go FFF

> 2. It would be really cool to see more horsepower
> thrown just at printing smaller features and not
> at expanding the build envelope at the same time.
> Seems like a small FDM machine with a minuscule
> envelope could utilize higher precision linear
> components and do an even better job than what
> we're seeing on this post.
>

A tiny and solid machine would be great and quite appropriate for many more hobbies and uses than a massive machine, we will get to some fundamental limits with hole sizes, extrusion pressures and materials at some point.


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 11, 2013 09:07AM
Can't touch RichRap yet, but this is mine - ~ 11mm tall version of Ben's Sun Vase, sliced with Slic3r at .14mm layers. I think I can go smaller, but this is a bit of a hairy model to retain detail!


Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 16, 2013 01:06PM
Thanks to everyone that entered or had a go at micro printing, this really shows some of the stunning printing that's going on out there and it's a good test for pushing the FFF boundary.

We had entries over on the G+ 3D printing community too, so thank's to everyone over there that also entered a picture.

It's always hard to select a winner with these competitions as we have such a great standard of stunning results every time.

Things learnt in this test -
- Blue tape is a real winner for tiny printing, because you can blast cool the part and it stays stuck down! thumbs up
- Heated beds are not so great because they just keep the part soft. thumbs down
- You need to use fans to keep the part cool.
- Sometimes it's actually better to print just one tiny thing rather than a plate of them - for a good finish.
- You really need to print tiny things at a lower temperature than normal and faster than you would think, otherwise you may just be 'printing' with 'hot-end ooze' and not actual controlled extrusion.
- You can print small things with Nylon. (And ABS and PLA).
- Extruder fine tuning and PID calibration is essential for good micro-printing.
- We have some really awesome RepRap machines and operators out there! smileys with beer

For me this has opened up a whole new area of designing parts, tiny ones rather than more standard sized parts used in RepRap's so far. It's good to know you can keep strength and accuracy with tiny prints, so hopefully we can enjoy small parts that can also be used for functional things (this was one of the compare tests with Resin printers).

And the winner of the Golden micro printing crown (yes, I should have printed one eye rolling smiley ) is Sublime for not only the smallest functional secret heart box and to die for Kittens & Squirrel's, but for a really nano sized Plus vase at just 4mm high! - WoW! - I agree, you can't get much smaller than that!



It was a very close call and the runner up is the wonderful octopus by Petrus, who also wins the Golden machine award for some really great prints at 50microns - I have seen many full size prints with less detail than your stunning mini collection eye popping smiley



So many more excellent entries and a lot of different machine types, do take another look back at all the models in this thread.

I'm so glad we had a interlocking cube puzzle, great print by hutzlibatz from a brand new Mendel90. smiling bouncing smiley


And I must just mention the 'toasted owl' print by Plexus in Laywood - very brave attempt! He really made me smile -

Again, thanks so much to everyone, all the prints were fantastic!

Over to you Sublime - to select the next competition challenge, task or innovation goal. - Looking forward to it.

Rich.


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
February 16, 2013 03:19PM
Thank you this was the first time I had tried to print anything small and it was great fun. I appreciate being chosen as the winner but believe that some of the other prints that were a little larger were better quality prints than my micro ones. I tried printing the octopus and could not come close to the finish or size of Petrus's with my 0.5mm hotend.

I will post a new competition over the next day or two when I decide on what it will be.


FFF Settings Calculator Gcode post processors Geometric Object Deposition Tool Blog
Tantillus.org Mini Printable Lathe How NOT to install a Pololu driver
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 01, 2013 11:31PM
Well the contest is over but I got my hands on a 0.2mm nozzle and have better control of extrusion. here is a tree frog in PLA 5mm high and about 9mm long. 100µm layers.






[www.printrbottalk.com] Printrbot Forum and Wiki
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 02, 2013 02:50PM
@plexus that's stunning eye popping smiley is it hard to get going for the first layer using a 0.2mm nozzle - is that why you opted for a raft?

I'll have to track down some small 0.2mm nozzles, looks like fun, I would really like to try Nylon at that nozzle size.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2013 02:51PM by richrap.


[richrap.blogspot.com]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 02, 2013 02:55PM
Rich, she just wont stick without raft! i wish i could get it to work without it. i will try some more.

I run the printrbottalk.com forum and wiki for the Printrbot. i have a PB+ with lots of upgrades. one of the forum members worked out a way to make nozzles and he has been making 0.2mm ones. its pretty astounding, here is his video and thingiverse page.

I had him make me this nozzle and its quite great for small prints. here is a link to a thread he started and there are numerous pics from prints i've done with his nozzle. his name is Jerrill.

by the way you are all welcome to join the Printrbot forum. although its mostly about Printrbots, the conversations have a general purpose with other printers and we encourage discussions about other printers, issues, etc.

youtube: [www.youtube.com]

thingiverse: [www.thingiverse.com]

forum post: [www.printrbottalk.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2013 02:56PM by plexus.


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Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 02, 2013 04:04PM
That is a very nice frog. It's about the size of the green one I printed, measured mie and it's about 5mm tall. The only way I could get the PLA to stick was to squish the first layer into the kapton with the fan on.
What did you use to photograph the frog, those are amazing photos considering how small it is.
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 03, 2013 11:53PM
I tried 3mm tall and got a blob. but 4mm tall and i got resolution! its just just blocky details - you can make out the eyes and look at the toes! i dont think i can do better than this at this point.

In the last two pics, the clear frog is 0.5mm nozzle, 500µm layers 2x scale, the green is 0.2mm nozzle 100µm layers and of course our tiny toad 0.2mm nozzle 100µm layers.























Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2013 12:16AM by plexus.


[www.printrbottalk.com] Printrbot Forum and Wiki
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 13, 2013 12:14AM
And I've been able to push this to 3mm high which is 12% scale from the original

Made possible with the Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 12:15AM by plexus.


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Attachments:
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Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 14, 2013 09:32AM
Wow, that's just getting unbelievable, I'm highly impressed. It would be interesting to compare these to DLP/Laser Resin prints, I didn't think RepRap FFF would be getting down this small.

I was impressed with the comparison of the 0.2mm nozzle on a Printrbot and an Objet printer -

Printrbot vs. Objet Alaris30Pro - From the Printrbottalk forum - [www.printrbottalk.com]


[richrap.blogspot.com]
VDX
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 14, 2013 09:48AM
... DLP-printers with slightly modified optic are actually at 10 microns layer height and detail accuracy ... but could be driven even smaller, if needed winking smiley


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 14, 2013 09:52AM
yes but a printrbot with all the upgrades is <$1000 smiling smiley


[www.printrbottalk.com] Printrbot Forum and Wiki
VDX
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 14, 2013 10:26AM
... and a DIY DLP-printer <200€ winking smiley

It's essentially a DLP-printer modified for a better UV-light-source, a vat and a Z-stage
- e.g. one of the 'salvaged' Casio-beamers - you can find them for 25 USD or 45 Euros
- a BluRay-UV-laserdiode with driver - something between 50 and 80 Euros
- Z-stage with stepper-driver - around 50 Euros or cheaper
- resin vat - what you have ...
- mechanical crap ...


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 14, 2013 11:17AM
I'd love to see your 200€ DLP resin printer and sample output!


[www.printrbottalk.com] Printrbot Forum and Wiki
VDX
Re: Print something really tiny competition 28thJan > Feb15th.
March 14, 2013 12:15PM
... it's development in progress in a German CNC-forum, where you have to register - but I've posted some of the results here: [forums.reprap.org]

The prints were made by a friend with his DIY-DLP-setup, my DLP isn't assembled yet, as I'm actually more focussed on SLS and high energy UV-etching.

Until now I have 4 of the salvaged casio-beamers - two A130 for 35 Euros each with 1024x786px resolution (one as 'only red' for 3D-scanning, one 'lampless' for UV-tests), one A230 (1200x1024px) as 'lampless' for 45 Euros and one with 6 remaining blue laserdiodes as 'full-colour'-beamer for 3D-scanning or data-projector ... and two older beamers with halogen-bulbs (800x600px) for around 30 Euros without lamp (modded to UV) and one with lamp for 60 Euros ...


Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org]
Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]
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