Failure to get a decent first layer

first off the problem im having is that i can get the first layer to stick to the heated bed fine and the print goes ok untill about he 3/4 layer where it just pops off of the bed with little more than a tap of the extruder on tiny flick of filament. Ive read through as many posts on here tried everything, hotter bed, cooler bed, hotter heater temp, cooler heater temp, no fan, fan kapton tape, etc. when i started it was going fine but recently its just going all wrong.

when i say the first layer sticks ok, i mean it has a first layer but alot of the time it curls up onto the hot end which obviously makes a horrible print, ive made sure everything is calibrated to the best of the equipment i have.

also ive noticed that during the print the hotend seems to get like a little clump around the hotend.

im at my wits end and have decided that the noob should own up and ask the community for help.

normal printing temperatures :

first layer 220C
all other layers 220C
bed temp is 70C
print speeds arent much above 20mm/s

so yes anyones input would be greatly appreciated.

Could you let us know what type of filament (abs/pla & manufacturer)?
What is on the bed (glass, blue tape, kapton, hairspray, glue)?
What is the object you are trying to print?

Also some pictures would be helpful.

@quert75 - The filament on the first layer should be 'squished' on the bed - is yours? It might be worth adjusting things in firmware to bring the nozzle a tiny bit closer to the bed than you have it at the moment. Being more scientific about this - measure the thickness of the outline skirt as this should be equal to, certainly no larger than the layer height which you have set up in the slicing program. (I have seen people print with the first layer a lot less than the layer height in order to get things to stick but don't go too far down that route).

I am sure you have tried this but make sure that the bed is absolutely clean and grease free before starting - I use a solution of vinegar in water on a piece of kitchen roll paper to get the glass squeaky clean (literally) before any print.

All of the above assumes that the bed is level to start with - you have NO chance if not.

Alan

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2013 05:26AM by Alzibiff.

Sorry totally forgot to include that info,

Printing with pla brought from 3dkarma ( might be terrible pla as mentioned ima noob)
The bed is heated glass (nopheads dibond kit)
Ive tried kapton tape which sticks slightly longer but not by very much.
Printing various things

My bed is as level as I can get it to go, ive used a dial guage the run around the entire bed and for it got it as close as I could get (dial guage measures to .0001 of an inch so a gentle tap anywher near interferes).

Ive tried altering the height down slightly but could you recommend like how much to go about it, I think I might have been going too far (extruder carnt extrude then jams obviously way to close)

There was a 20m - maybe longer - length of PLA in the kit, how did printing with that go?
If the supplied PLA did not present any problems it looks as though you may have an answer to your question. I suggest you work with the supplied filament as we know its origin and that it will stick/print.

Alan

Yes I think some pigments used are oily and prevent the plastic sticking. I have never had any problems with PLA on glass but some people say they need to use PVA glue, beer or hairspray, etc. The only one of those I have tried is hairspray for ABS and it did not work.

The first trick to try though is to have the bed hotter for the first layer, maybe 90C and then lower after that, say 60C.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

Do the following:

1) Ensure your Z_HOM_POS is correct, instructions on how to do this are in the manual. You will need to update marlin to calibrate this by using the arduino program on the usb stick. When your finished your hotend should firmly grip a piece of paper but you should still be able to pull it out at the home position.
2) Set your heated bed to 60
3) Your hotend temperature is probably too low or too high, so you will need to adjust this (if you send up some pictures of what the bed looks like after the first layer has printed we might be able to help you). I would guess the temperature is too low but it is hard to say without a picture.
4) If the above 3 don't work use some blue tape on the bed (remember you will have to adjust Z_HOM_POS to accomodate the increase in bed thickness)

Cheers,
Ryan

looks like everything i was doing was wrong.

cooled down the filament temp,
raised the bed temp for the start
experimented with the bed temp after first layer
brought the nozzle closer on the first layer

essentially ive applied everything everyone said at once which seems to counter everything even the skirts printing well.

although i think the major change was the use of a different cleaner.

many thanks to everyone looks right now that everything is working ok

yup...usually parts fall off if they get close to 60degrees...i carnt physically get them off any more

Remove the glass and put it in a freezer for a ten minutes usually does the trick.

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[www.hydraraptor.blogspot.com]

turn the heat up!


I set my first layer at 240! And thats with PLA. Then I turn it down after the first

Msandersmay10

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2013 08:16PM by msandersmay10.

It sounds like my issue now with my green pla. Not always but many times it curl up and stick to the hotend and ruin everything; happens especially if printing small area. I did many things and what help me the most is heating up the bed and slowing the print to 8mm/s for first layer. I tend to belive this is something to do with the filamen or pigmen as nophead said. It did not happen to my earlier white pla, even the white one stick very welll.