Forum Rules?

Hi all,

Where's the list of the rules for this forum? Normally on forums I see them blatently thrown at you or at the top of some subforum (usualy the admin / announcements section), but can't I find that here. I'd prefer to know beforehand before uknowingly getting bad karma on these forums.

I always follow the usual etiquette of:
* No posting of illegal stuff (copyright infringement, stuff that messes up peoples' web browsers, etc)
* No spam
* No "questionable" images, or in the case of this forum OpenSCAD source that can generate such images
* No personal attacks
* No calling something "crap" based on one experience without stating that it is based on one experience
* No profanity (even if it is allowed I don't use it because there are words that deliver the message in a better way)

...but what are the policies on?
* Linking products
* Linking to other blog posts not made by yourself / articles / forums
* Linking to your own blog / similar posts you made in another web community
* Linking images, using image URL, max image size
* Giving opinion on products (e.g. discussing negative experience with a product, recommending products)

I'm asking this because by the nature of these forums there are opinions being flung left and right about what's good and what's bad, but I'm not sure how the "culture" of this forum wants those messages delivered. I'm also planning to make an unboxing / build log of my first personal 3D printer (as it's a "less common" model that's listed in the Wiki), which is the reason for asking about links and images.

Thanks!

It seems to be first come, first serve. I was an admin here, but chose to withdraw for many reasons.

Be a good internet persona, and all will be fine. Otherwise, I will have admin again and ban you.

... the forum started 2007 as a 'community-driven place' with only rudimental regulations and (to my mind) should stay so, if possible ...

But we have sometimes troubles with starting flame-wars between users and/or competitors and recently more spams, so we're thinking about changes and modifications ... I've already activated some (limited editing time, post-history, ...), but it seems, this wasn't enough and the old forums software is not really helpfull, so bigger changes will come soon ...

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Viktor
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Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Cool, thanks! My look around the forums so far has been a good one, so keep it up

I guess I'm thinking too much about some video gaming forums that have crazy specific rules to not degrade in seconds. A lot of those places have dents all over from too many swings of the ban stick

Hi guys,

I'm in the quest looking for such rules too. I've been looking for some forum rules also... and I have a mix of them now

Please, let me know if you have something in mind. Without clear rules, other than the best practices of netiquette, I'm having a hard time as a moderator of RUG/Argentina

If it helps, I started a titanpad with a mix of rules from other forums. Just as a start point... Maybe it helps.

[titanpad.com]

Regards.-

Good set. I'd add a couple of things in one of the sticky topics about mods closing, moving or deleting topics.

The language rule needs to be amended for this place, of course. There are RUGs for quite a few character sets here, but posting to an English forum should be done in English, and vice-versa.

There needs be to a mod who is fluent in any language offered as a RUG here, of course, to prevent spam and avoid legal exposure. That may not be handled well here, but I don't know... My sites are English-only (not including humor, quotes, etc) but that's not possible here.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2013 09:04PM by calcetin.

I haven't been a member of this forum for a long time, but i've seen a few topic already where the poster seems to avoid or ignore any requests for sources files. Is that a problem? Is this the forum of a open source based community? And if so, i can understand why closed source would be fine, but i think it should be clear at the first post what type of project is being talked about. Maybe its just me and i'm just too idealistic, but its just a bit frustrating to have to eyeball everything from pictures...

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swe3tdave
Is this the forum of a open source based community?

Yes. You can read the opinion of Adrian Bowyer (RepRap's founder) regarding open source here: RepRap and Open Source.

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swe3tdave
i've seen a few topic already where the poster seems to avoid or ignore any requests for sources files. Is that a problem?

Perhaps. In my opinion, any attempt to enforce a solution to this "problem" results in new problems that are much, much worse. There is a history of nasty arguments here wherein people who feel entitled to source files demand them of a developer who doesn't feel obligated to release them. People waste a lot of energy getting upset, and in the end no one is happy and nothing gets resolved. If a developer doesn't respond after a few polite requests, then my advice is to let it go...

Sadly I think the concept of Open Source Hardware is slowly dying. People can't even agree what "Open Source" means, even though it's well defined by the licenses and has been in use for software for decades.

I think even RepRapPro (Adrian Bowyer's company) are backtracking on the concept, complaining about foreign copiers, reluctant to release BOMs, developing in private.

I think it is a shame that the Open Source concept gets so widely abused, to the point of being a meaningless marketing buzz word (see OpenDesk), but most users don't really care, and some disagree with the concept of Open Source anyway.

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What is Open Source?
What is Open Source Hardware?
Open Source in a nutshell: the Four Freedoms
CC BY-NC is not an Open Source license

... it's mainly the individual situation, what's causing this different behaviours.

If someone is interested to get money for his work, then the 'openness' is very limited!

And an even bigger part of the DIY-folks has some ideas/hopes to start a living around RepRap ... so this seems to be a 'normal' development

---

Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

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bobc
People can't even agree what "Open Source" means, even though it's well defined by the licenses and has been in use for software for decades.

I have released hardware designs under GPL, BSD, and "public domain", and to be honest, a software license has never made complete sense to me as applied to a hardware design. Hardware is different from software. But maybe I just have a poor grasp of the licenses...

I like this description from the Open Source Hardware Association. Maybe we could link to it more often when these conversations come up (unless there is a better or more universal one out there). Side note: I think RepRap predates the Open Source Hardware Association by many years. I am not sure that open source hardware was well-defined at the time of RepRap's inception.

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Open Source Hardware (OSHW) Statement of Principles 1.0
Open source hardware is hardware whose design is made publicly available so that anyone can study, modify, distribute, make, and sell the design or hardware based on that design. The hardware’s source, the design from which it is made, is available in the preferred format for making modifications to it. Ideally, open source hardware uses readily-available components and materials, standard processes, open infrastructure, unrestricted content, and open-source design tools to maximize the ability of individuals to make and use hardware. Open source hardware gives people the freedom to control their technology while sharing knowledge and encouraging commerce through the open exchange of designs.

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bobc
I think it is a shame that the Open Source concept gets so widely abused, to the point of being a meaningless marketing buzz word

I agree, but the last thing we want to do is demand everyone posting to reprap.org share their work under a true open source license. Many people would get upset and leave, and this would be worse than simply being lax about license enforcement.

Another note: If a developer has published a hardware design that is not open source, there is nothing to stop someone else from reverse engineering their work and re-releasing it as open source. This has happened a few times around here, and let me tell you, people get really upset about that too. So. There will be angry people no matter what course of action (or inaction) we take.

I think the role of the admins and rules should be to
1) keep the technical content relevant and cutting-edge,
2) keep everything polite and civil,
3) leave everything else the heck alone.

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MattMoses
Yes. You can read the opinion of Adrian Bowyer (RepRap's founder) regarding open source here: RepRap and Open Source.

Ok, so if i get what Adrian Bowyer is saying, it can't be called a RepRap if it's not open source. But he will not enforce people from having RepRap based replicators stay open source because there is no point, closed source replicators are doomed to die by themselves and be forgotten. That makes is clear then. And actually, i think i agree with him on that.

Of course if people coming in the forum dont know about the founder's point of view, they might not understand and get angry. i just wish i would've known earlier.

Initially developing an open source product in private to some extent, could be seen sometimes as a good thing.

Take for instance what happened with bobc developing a variant of RAMPS targeting the Due (RAMPS-FD).

bobc and myself got some boards made to test out the concept, which we accepted might be a "throw them away afterwards" affair. Before we'd been able to fully test them, a company in Asia popped up selling completed boards (using the wrong fuses too - but they were at least amenable to fixing that after being notified).

Turns out bobc and myself were right to suspect that we might have to throw these boards out, as they're not really suitable and will need lots of mods to work on a printer. Unfortunately it seems a number of people bought them and are now stuck with these boards. In our next board run, I'm going to hopefully post a new (blank) board to these people if they want one.

With a private design (or at least release) concept, this sort of thing wouldn't have happened. It's why companies like Freetronics and Adafruit tend to design things with a small team of chosen people till it's ready to release. In many cases a slightly larger pool of people will know there is a product coming, and what it's basic specs are, but they won't be actively working on a project.

There is also the issue of division of labour around things like designing a circuit board. Despite the fact that software like KiCad and Eagle now use a text-based format, it's still not a straight-forward issue to merge changes done by two different people at the same time, let alone at different times, into a project.

There are no easy answers yet to this issue with electronics hardware, as shipping in a software sense is totally different to electronic hardware. With other hardware objects, say a small box/case/tool/part/widget, you could hopefully offer the design files up and someone could 3D print or laser cut it, if they have access to those tools. Making a PCB and assembling it isn't always quite that easy. Maybe one day we'll be able to 3D print electronics with a reliable enough process that it'll be a non-issue. Unfortunately we're not there yet, but hopefully this will change.

PS: I'm a big open source advocate, and that's why I try and contribute. I know there will be issues along the way. The one thing that some people don't ways accept though is that things DO change, there WILL be ups and downs, and what is now the best way of doing things won't necessarily be the same in a few years. To me, open source will still have benefits, but only time will tell. I'm happy to wait and find out.

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frontier204
Where's the list of the rules for this forum?

In the "General" forum, in a sticky post at the top: "Read Before Posting - Rules and Guidelines".