Sticky rules/guidelines for general thread - draft?

Hello,
given the amount of people advertising on the general section i've figured that it could probably do with a sticky post at the top titled somthing like "Read before posting" , currently there is nothing that sticks out and informs people as to what the posting guidlines are, and the moderators need something on public display to refer people to

below is a very rough draft of such a sticky, does anyone else think this is needed and are there anything changes / additions to what is below are needed?



Please read the following guidelines before posting.

Self-Promotion is Spam

All posts are read by our administration and moderation team. If we catch questionable content, it will immediately be edited or removed for futher investigation. Any post that is considered advertising in the general thread will be moved to the FOR SALE section.

While you are allowed to promote your web site(s) in your signature please keep it to 1 link

Language and Trolling

Our community is family-friendly. There are young users and Vulgar language is not allowed. This constitutes the use of any kind of offensive, discriminatory, or otherwise inappropriate material deemed unsafe for younger members. Inappropriate language will potentially be removed and users will be warned.

Do not post provocative, outrageous, or pointless messages only to get a response from others, i.e. "trolling."

Personal Attacks

In order to maintain a positive atmosphere, no personal attacks or insults will be tolerated. While discussions may become heated, it is not an excuse to result to attacks or insults. Moderators and or Admins will remove and warn user at their discretion.

Moderators and Administrators Have the Final Word

If you have a problem or a complaint, Direct it to the "Administration,Announcements,Policy" section ,The appropriate actions will be taken. We reserve the right to ban flagrant offenders when deemed necessary, with or without prior warning.

Cross-Posting

If you have something to post and you're not sure which board it belongs in, do not post it in more than one board. If the administrators or moderators think it would fit better in another location, it will be moved there. Duplicate threads only serve to create confusion.

Multiple Accounts Per Individual Are Not Permitted

If you forget your password, use the password recovery tool, in which case you will be able to reset your password, given that you have access to the e-mail associated with your account. If you are still unable to login, contact the administrator.

Again, please follow the above guidelines when posting on our message boards. If you have any questions, please contact us.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2013 08:33PM by thejollygrimreaper.

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

... sounds good for me

I'll wait some time to collect reactions, otherwise pin this to the top ...

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Viktor
--------
Aufruf zum Projekt "Müll-freie Meere" - [reprap.org] -- Deutsche Facebook-Gruppe - [www.facebook.com]

Call for the project "garbage-free seas" - [reprap.org]

Quote

[signature] please keep them within 2 lines of small text

==> "please reduce it to one link." (IIRC, that's the current rule of thumb)

Quote

If you have a problem or a complaint, direct it to the administrators and/or moderators, not to the boards.

I'm not so sure wether admins are happy about discussing such stuff privately. IMHO, administration rules should reflect not the admins' opinion and also not the opinion of those writing the most PMs, but what's generally accepted by the whole forum. As it's not easy to find out what's generally accepted, problems should be discussed in public. An exception might be complaints about specific individuals.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Looks good to me. I think we should also have a sticky that has a technical FAQ, since the same questions are asked over and over and over and over and over (some discussion on the tech faq idea is here)

I think there should be two sticky threads - the guidlines at the top, and then the tech faq below it.

The subject lines could be:
Read Before Posting - Rules and Guidelines
Read Before Posting - Technical FAQ

Also, is there a common policy on what counts as advertising (on the wiki or at some other link)? Since practically everyone on here is selling one thing or another, it would help to have some guidance on the line between "posting useful information" and "advertising".

The question of what constitutes advertising is an interesting one, because it's also quite common to have several links ( like i do ) in a users signature,

I think the advertising line really crosses-where a user just blatantly advertises a product they are selling in completely the wrong section, then there is self promotion which in itself can be as detrimental to the forum as the blatant type of advertising which is where signatures come in handy - see example below

example: - if a new user asked which hotend is the best and someone recommends one, a signature with a link to his/her webstore provides the opportunity to the new user to see exactly why and where the recommendation came from, essentially their source of bias towards one product or another

signatures i think are a whole different ball game, and a link in them to a webstore the user may be running is i think a very important thing and to a degree should be mandatory.especially on this forum,



i'll edit the first post with the suggested changes

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

Looks good, but I agree any affiliation or relationship to a company/shop should be stated in a users signature.

That way there is no hidden promoting etc... nothing better than to be completely open especially in a forum where many product recommendations could have hidden motives.

if everyones happy with how it is in the first post i'll put it in the general section tonight and make it sticky, i'll do a bit of formatting on it when i do to make it look a bit better

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2013 03:45AM by thejollygrimreaper.

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

I've put it up in the general thread now as a sticky, feel free to edit it as required

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

currently the part supposed to deal with advertsing and spam in the general section says this:

====================
Self-Promotion is Spam

All posts are read by our administration and moderation team. If we catch questionable content, it will immediately be edited or removed for futher investigation. Any post that is considered advertising in the general thread will be moved to the FOR SALE section.

While you are allowed to promote your web site(s) in your signature please keep it to 1 link
===========================

i think we need to rewrite this so it is a bit more specific

obviously spam that is advertising shoes and soccer jerseys and fake id's get deleted pretty quick,

whats the general line of thinking when it comes to:

kick-starters
people announcing a new products

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

OK, the word "Spam" misguides in the headline. Stuff belonging into the For Sale section isn't what's generally considered to be spam.

Regarding announcements/kickstarters I consider it important to look at what they announce. Closed source printers, pure industrial stuff, etc. are not exactly on topic for our forum. Their application to self-replicating printers and their development is. Admittedly, there is no clear, sharp line of distinction.

More in general: sometimes I get the feeling people see RepRap as sort of a shopping guide with free expert support for industrial products. While a community can deal with some amounts of this, such an appearance is in general not healthy for a developer community.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

(already posted this in the General section. Going to post it here too in case people want to continue the discussion here. Sorry for double posting. Hey, bits are cheap )

Hi Guys, in my humble opinion, the admins should not clamp down too hard on posts of any kind. Even new announcements, kickstarters, etc.

If the readers think something is crap, they can say so right in the post. Posts that are interesting will see a lot of activity and debate, and posts that are crap will sink down off the front page very quickly.

One of RepRap's greatest strengths is its chaotic and free-flowing nature. It would be a shame if heavy-handed (but perhaps well meaning) admins killed interest in the forum by meddling too much.

I want to point out that the appearance of a conflict of interest can cause problems, even if there is not actually any real conflict of interest. So, for example, if a person is a moderator and they run a shop and they have multiple links in their signature and they go around telling people what they can and cannot post, it starts to look a little strange.

I recommend the first rule in the Rules and Guidelines be changed to something like:

Quote
proposed new rule for advertising
The RepRap forums thrive on a lively discussion of current developments in 3D printing and other areas of advanced manufacturing. Posts that introduce new products and technologies for discussion are welcome and encouraged. However, posts that are simply intended to advertise a product or publicize a crowdfunding attempt do not add significantly to the discussion. Such posts may be deleted or moved to a more appropriate subforum at the moderator's discretion.

And regarding links in the signature, links to blogs, shops, etc, how about this:

Quote
proposed new rule for links
If you run a company (selling parts or services, etc) please place a link to your company website in your signature. Not only will this publicize your company, it fosters transparency and helps to avoid the perception of a conflict of interest. We want readers to evaluate each other's comments based on their merit, not on speculations regarding some hidden agenda.

If you have a blog or projects on the wiki you are encouraged to add the links to your signature.

Please do not exceed a total of XXXX links in your signature.

Quote

the admins should not clamp down too hard on posts of any kind. Even new announcements, kickstarters, etc.

If the readers think something is crap, they can say so right in the post. Posts that are interesting will see a lot of activity and debate, and posts that are crap will sink down off the front page very quickly.

One of RepRap's greatest strengths is its chaotic and free-flowing nature. It would be a shame if heavy-handed (but perhaps well meaning) admins killed interest in the forum by meddling too much.

I want to point out that the appearance of a conflict of interest can cause problems, even if there is not actually any real conflict of interest.

You're a wise guy, Matt.

Do you distinguish between shop links, links to a blog somewhere and links into reprap.org? As you can see, I have quite a few of the latter ones in the hope it saves me repetitions in the posted text.

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Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

MattMoses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (already posted this in the General section. Going
> to post it here too in case people want to
> continue the discussion here. Sorry for double
> posting. Hey, bits are cheap )
>
> Hi Guys, in my humble opinion, the admins should
> not clamp down too hard on posts of any kind. Even
> new announcements, kickstarters, etc.
>
> If the readers think something is crap, they can
> say so right in the post. Posts that are
> interesting will see a lot of activity and debate,
> and posts that are crap will sink down off the
> front page very quickly.
>
> One of RepRap's greatest strengths is its chaotic
> and free-flowing nature. It would be a shame if
> heavy-handed (but perhaps well meaning) admins
> killed interest in the forum by meddling too much.
>
>
> I want to point out that the appearance of
> a conflict of interest can cause problems, even if
> there is not actually any real conflict of
> interest. So, for example, if a person is a
> moderator and they run a shop and
> they have multiple links in their signature
> and they go around telling people what they
> can and cannot post, it starts to look a little
> strange.
>
> I recommend the first rule in the Rules and
> Guidelines be changed to something like:
>
>

Quote
proposed new rule for advertising
> The RepRap forums thrive on a lively discussion of
> current developments in 3D printing and other
> areas of advanced manufacturing. Posts that
> introduce new products and technologies for
> discussion are welcome and encouraged. However,
> posts that are simply intended to advertise a
> product or publicize a crowdfunding attempt do not
> add significantly to the discussion. Such posts
> may be deleted or moved to a more appropriate
> subforum at the moderator's discretion.
>

i think we are going to run into the blurry line no matter how things are worded or how specific it is worded, i would maybe add to to it suggesting that if people are unsure about what they are about to post they can ask in the admin/announcements section also for user who have a problem with something that they consider inappropriate they do have the ability to report posts that are offensive just like they can with any other situations

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

MattMoses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And regarding links in the signature, links to
> blogs, shops, etc, how about this:
>
>

Quote
proposed new rule for links
> If you run a company (selling parts or services,
> etc) please place a link to your company website
> in your signature. Not only will this publicize
> your company, it fosters transparency and helps to
> avoid the perception of a conflict of interest. We
> want readers to evaluate each other's comments
> based on their merit, not on speculations
> regarding some hidden agenda.
>
> If you have a blog or projects on the wiki you are
> encouraged to add the links to your signature.
>
> Please do not exceed a total of XXXX links in your
> signature.
>

well worded, Traumflug makes a good point though , i don't think we should expressly limit the number of links considering not many people have gone to the effort of putting anything in their signature and it's not something that has been abused... yet (not that i've seen) even defing types of links and how many of each is allowable will get blurry and messy , maybe add instead, "users should keep the size of the signature to a reasonable size as to not make them visually obstructing to the page and it's content"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2013 08:50PM by thejollygrimreaper.

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

thejollygrimreaper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well worded, Traumflug makes a good point though
> , i don't think we should expressly limit the
> number of links considering not many people have
> gone to the effort of putting anything in their
> signature and it's not something that has been
> abused... yet (not that i've seen) even defing
> types of links and how many of each is allowable
> will get blurry and messy , maybe add instead,
> "users should keep the size of the signature to a
> reasonable size as to not make them visually
> obstructing to the page and it's content"

Same.

I think that the bit:

Quote

If you have a blog or projects on the wiki you are encouraged to add links to them your signature.

Please do not exceed a total of XXXX links in your signature.

Should probably read (may need slight rewording):

Quote

If you have a blog or projects on the wiki you are encouraged to add the links to them in your signature.

However, we ask that you please keep the number of links to a minimum to avoid visual confusion. We also ask that you keep the signatures to a reasonable size as to not make them visually
obstructing to the page and it's content.

Regarding kickstarters / new "products" announcements and discussion threads, I agree we should move them out of "General", maybe we should create a specific subforum for that.

This bring 2 questions : how to name it ? "Crowd-funding" would be too specific. "New products" sounds a bit too commercial IMO.

Where shoud we locate it ? Putting it in the business sections would discourage discussions. Maybe whether in the main section (along with general) or in the "machines variations" one ?



Maybe it should be limited to "things" that are really new too. Copy shops advertising still would stay in the business section.

Any comments / ideas ?



Everything else in tjgr proposal seems pretty much consensual.
I'd like to add we should remember that admin interventions should be kept to the minimum, in order to keep the "freedom of speech" feeling here. It's just a common sense tip, no need to mention that in the sticky.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

I am fine if there is no limit on links. Actually, I only put that in there because JGR had it in his original draft. Cefiar's rewording looks ok to me.

MattMoses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am fine if there is no limit on links. Actually,
> I only put that in there because JGR had it in his
> original draft. Cefiar's rewording looks ok to me.
>

I agree. I think Cefiar reworded it perfectly too.

+1 for Cefiar's wording

I was a bit confused by the use of the term "self promotion", which normally means "promotion of oneself", but here it means "promotion of one's own products". That implies commercially offered products, but it could also be construed as promoting ones own designs, website, blog (often supported by advertising), services or even just reputation (which can be worth something).

Either way, I think the intention of the rule is covered by the term "advertising", and the "self promotion" bit is confusing and probably redundant.

I am wondering, does kickstarter annoucements fall under that "self advertising" category after all ?

We just had an new one pop up, and I was pondering whether it should be moved to the business sections : [forums.reprap.org]
Not much information in the post, mostly only link.
And if the answer is a yes, shouldn't we create a dedicated business subforum for all crowd funding projects announcements ?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2013 07:56AM by DeuxVis.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

Well I went ahead and did both (new forum and moving), as multiple users reported this post as advertising.

Still open to discussion if needed.

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Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

Hey Everyone, is there any objection if I edit jollygrimreaper's Rules and Guidelines sticky post in the General section, so that the formatting is a little cleaner? The content would remain the same. This is what I have in mind:

Please read the following rules and guidelines before posting.

Advertising, Spam, and Self-promotion
All posts are read by our administration and moderation team. If we catch questionable content, it will immediately be edited or removed for further investigation. Any post that is considered advertising in the general thread will be moved to the FOR SALE section.

If you run a company (selling parts or services, etc) please place a link to your company website in your signature. Not only will this publicize your company, it fosters transparency and helps to avoid the perception of a conflict of interest. We want readers to evaluate each other's comments based on their merit, not on speculations regarding some hidden agenda.

If you have a blog or projects on the wiki, you are encouraged to add the links to your signature. However, we ask that you please keep the number of links to a minimum to avoid visual confusion. We also ask that you keep the signatures to a reasonable size as to not make them visually obstructing to the page and its content.


Language and Trolling
Our community is family-friendly. There are young users and vulgar language is not allowed. This constitutes the use of any kind of offensive, discriminatory, or otherwise inappropriate material deemed unsafe for younger members. Inappropriate language will potentially be removed and users will be warned.

Do not post provocative, outrageous, or pointless messages only to get a response from others, i.e. "trolling."


Personal Attacks
In order to maintain a positive atmosphere, no personal attacks or insults will be tolerated. While discussions may become heated, it is not an excuse to resort to attacks or insults. Moderators and or Admins will remove and warn users at their discretion.


Moderators and Administrators Have the Final Word
If you have a problem or a complaint, please direct it to the "Administration, Announcements, Policy" section. The appropriate actions will be taken. We reserve the right to ban flagrant offenders when deemed necessary, with or without prior warning.


Cross-Posting
If you have something to post and you're not sure which board it belongs in, do not post it in more than one board. If the administrators or moderators think it would fit better in another location, it will be moved there. Duplicate threads only serve to create confusion.


Multiple Accounts Per Individual Are Not Permitted
If you forget your password, use the password recovery tool, in which case you will be able to reset your password, given that you have access to the e-mail associated with your account. If you are still unable to login, contact the administrator.


Contact
If you have any questions, please contact us. You may do this by posting a message in the "Administration, Announcements, Policy" section, or by sending a PM to an Admin.

i got no problems, anything that can be done to make it clearer is welcome in my books,

i do wonder if we should put a list of admins/mods under contact

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

Quote
thejollygrimreaper
i do wonder if we should put a list of admins/mods under contact

I was thinking about this also. The problem is, who do we put on the list? Of the people with admin privileges, many of them are not active, and many of them would probably not want to be appear on a list of "who to talk to if you have a problem". There is a recent batch of new admins (myself included) that have not been burned out yet, but if we list only the new guys, then people might think we are trying to "usurp" some kind of authority from the old-timers. (I don't think the old-timers themselves care about things one way or the other.)

What if we did this:

Contact
If you have any questions, please contact us. You may do this by posting a message in the "Administration, Announcements, Policy" section, or by sending a PM to an Admin. The RepRap forums are maintained by an ever-changing group of volunteers, self-organized into an Adhocracy. The following individuals are currently active in day-to-day upkeep of the forums:

• DeuxVis
• Helmi
• MattMoses
• NewPerfection
• nophead
• thejollygrimreaper
• Traumflug
• twisted
• VDX
• VikOlliver

Is there anyone not on the list that would like to be on it?
Is there anyone on the list that would not like to be on it?

given that no has said anything either way, i'll add myself, and ask everyone via PM and add acordingly unless other admins want to add themselves

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-=( blog )=- -=( thingiverse )=- -=( 3Dindustries )=- -=( Aluhotend - mostly metal hotend)=--=( Facebook )=-

sorry for my late answer. Feel free to add me to the list but as you can see my answer delay is rather big currently - maybe it would make sense to add that so people don't expect to get an instant reaction.

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Frank