We're either idiots or we're missing something

A few friends and I came across the RepRap project. We watched some videos, saw how many people had built them, and said, "We can do that." We started out expecting to be able to order all the parts in maybe an hour or two, and then start building as they come in. That's not the way it's working out, not at all. It seems like all of the information is spread out all over the website, and some of it conflicts.

For example, we looked into soldering up our own electronics (should be no big deal). We used parts.reprap.org to come up with lists of components that would need to be purchased, found all of them on DigiKey and Mouser (and MakerBot for the PCBs). Then we realized that such a plan is more expensive than MakerBot's $175 mostly pre-assembled kit. Knowing that some small modifications need to be made to MakerBot's pre-assembled boards, there's obviously a number of components needed to modify them. What are these components? Where are they listed, if anywhere? Understanding that this is an open source community, I accepted the fact that I'll just have to follow through the instructions and make my own list of the parts needed. All necessary parts should be in parts.reprap.org, since all parts needed to make the electronics are in parts.reprap.org, so I used those lists to determine precisely what parts I needed and where I could get them. Then, one part that I needed wasn't in parts.reprap.org. This is logically impossible, since you can (or should be able to) make the electronics entirely out of the parts list from parts.reprap.org, and yet this part, needed for the end product, is not listed. It is the "4-way 3.81mm screw connector". I have realized that this refers to a 0.15" terminal screw block with four connectors, but I don't know if I need a surface-mount or through-hole variation. I don't know what voltages or amperages it should be able to handle. Now, I realize that there are some other interesting components on parts.reprap.org. Why are the RJ45 jacks on there? They belong to the MakerBot versions of the electronics, but we're on the *RepRap* website, not the MakerBot website. That is one example of the difficulties we've been having.

I've long been an open-source advocate, and I understand that documentation often suffers, but it seems very difficult to come up with the appropriate materials lists needed to build this machine. We have dedicated multiple days to figuring out what we needed to order, and cannot even find what parts we need. We have decided that once we get our RepRap built, we will become very active in making the process easier for others.

Perhaps we are missing something obvious, or perhaps we simply are not prepared for the challenge of building a RepRap, but after seeing videos of all the people who have built fully functioning RepRaps, it does not appear to be beyond our capabilities. It seems everyone else has been able to find the documentation they needed, why can't we?

(EDIT2: I made this post 'UN sticky', so it stays at the top. Also, I've moved it to Library Forum. -Sebastien)

It seems everyone else has been able to find the documentation they needed, why can't we?

Because our documentation is scattered across a few different wikis. Also because various developers have started up spin-off machines, pushing more and more of their sourcecode, hardware, and documentation etc. into non RepRap.org sites, starting up forums/mailing lists at the same time. This has resulted in a partially forked community and partially forked hardware sets. Half the stuff up up on [blog.reprap.org] is teaser links to offsite content rather than a full writeup with a matching writeup on the mediwiki.

If we'd kept it all at RepRap.org, you wouldn't have this problem.

I apologize.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2010 11:19PM by SebastienBailard.

Is it possible for users like me to edit the documentation on the main wiki?

I find that much of it is out of date, and I think the only reason it's gone this badly for this long is that the main wiki is not user-editable. Sure, there's a user-editable wiki, but the main wiki is where people look, and besides, for the reader's sake we shouldn't be scattering documentation. I ran into trouble building my own Darwin because the assembly instructions were out of date. The instructions refer to the old, set-screw-using diagonal braces, whereas I had Nophead's updated interference fit design. Not knowing they were meant to be interference fits, I drilled them out. (Fixing this led to an interesting design improvement which I'll put up later).



Take a look at this page: [reprap.org]
This is the main documentation page, the one linked to directly from the homepage sidebar labeled "documentation". But look at these out-of-date or misleading entries!

"RepRap "Darwin" - the current RepRap machine"
(Mendel is the current machine, not even listed under "Machines")

Under the "Positioning Systems" heading, there's also no link to Mendel; nor is there one in this page: [www.reprap.org]

The Darwin Overview [reprap.org] lists the working materials as "Polycaprolactone and a filler/support", which is not true, although it may have been the original goal.

The point is that these sorts of errors would be easily fixed by knowledgeable users as they read through the wiki, if only it were possible for them to make edits. This is the wiki philosophy. If there's going to be tight control of the core documentation, then the burden falls on the lead editors to keep it up to date.


Edit - Hypoon, as you can see, you're not the only one who's run into this issue. Are you building a Mendel, a Darwin, or a McWire? I can point you to the pages that might help you out. I found that it took me about a month of reading the various wiki pages, blog posts, and forum posts to get a comprehensive picture of what it's all about. It's getting a little better now (for example, thanks to the introduction of Reprap Pipes: [pipes.yahoo.com] ) but really the best thing to do is hang around and ask questions on the forums until you consider yourself to be 'in the know'.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 12:45AM by jbayless.

Is it possible for users like me to edit the documentation on the main wiki?
That's the twiki.

That's not user-edittable. TheOtherRob and I, (along with knowledegable volunteers with server experience) need to transition all twiki content to mediawiki, aka objects.reprap.org, using a script. Then we will figure out how to patch pages, using a custom mediawiki extension, made out of something called 'php'.
[objects.reprap.org]

---

It's getting a little better now (for example, thanks to the introduction of Reprap Pipes: [pipes.yahoo.com] )

True, but eventually I'd like to replace the pipes with an in house solution like planet, e.g.
planet.debian.org
because pipes nukes a tiny of bit of (frankly negligible) ad revenue and more importantly enables greater centrifugal force, like blogs not on reprap.org, thingiverse, thingiverse2 (now with added Amazoogle-tie-in), etc.

Along with giving folk blogs personaluserblog.reprap.org which feed stuff into the mediawiki/post-mediawiki.

---

How you guys can help:
1) email Adrian and let him know your thoughts regarding the situation. I don't think he realizes we have a problem. This may not result in meaningful change, as Adrian can't spank fugitive devs via email and tell them to stop ... empire building, but it will make you feel better, and it will let him know that the situation is broken. He knows I think the situation stinks, but he doesn't know users\builders are frustrated and unhappy. He's a little busy and doesn't know it's a problem to have our parts files scattered around a few different non-RepRap.org websites. (Documentation's important, but it needs to be attached to the image of the part, and the file of the part.)
That's only if you think the situation needs to be fixed.

2) If you think we need meaningful change:
a) Complain here. Forcibly.
b) email Adrian. Hi Adrian!
c) Go to this thread and contribute your ideas, time, and software for the post-mediawiki solution.
[dev.forums.reprap.org]
d) Start editing the mediawiki. You'll get a feel for how our system for documentation needs to work. And then observe how thingiverse, youtube, etc. make uploading fun, because we need that, too.
[objects.reprap.org]

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 01:49AM by SebastienBailard.

Hey hypoon,

I feel your pain, but to answer one of your questions, there are a lot of different variants of the reprap idea out there. The stuff on the reprap.org site is basically broken up into reprap(original) and makerbot.

As far as i can tell, the guys from makerbot are pushing the envelope and getting some good results and are documenting their progress really well. For that reason, they've been able to post their work on the reprap.org website, together with the reprap(original) stuff (which develops slower, due to it's non-profit nature). this is good for makerbot and good for the community, but does get confusing. What that basically means is that for every device, in the gen3 electronics for example, there is a makerbot version and a reprap version, both on the same pcb, but with some connection or component differences.

The component differences are only mentioned in the build instructions, and the components you'll find in the parts lists are for the makerbot versions.

i also found that ordering parts for one or two boards is excessively priced when you compare it to just buying a full kit from makerbot, but some people want to build stuff themselves (like you guys I guess).

I've ordered a whole lot of parts (as much as I can afford right now) to get a better price and will bundle them up into kits. I'll have the makerbot version and the reprap version. I went through all the build instructions and found out what the differences were and ordered the components accordingly.

To start off with, i can only offer the electronic parts, as soon as I've got them, I'll put them up in my webshop (which i'm also still working on). This unfortunately is not a direct help to you, because I'll probably only be ready with some products in about 2 weeks and with a full set of gen3 stuff in about 4 weeks. I'm going to try to keep my prices comparable to makerbot, but they run on a very thin margin, so it's tough. I'm hoping to supply europe, so that we can get in on the action too, without always having to import from the US.

By the way, I'm in Belgium, so if you're from the states, it's going to cost some shipping and time too.

Phew... hope that helps!

what they said. Documentation sucks - I spent many days finding all the info i needed for Mendel, Darwin is supposedly much worse. If you want to help fix the mess everything is being ported to the media wiki which anyone can help with and organize in a intuitive and useful way.

Until the day when proper documentation exists just use the irc channel for quick info since lots of people in there have already gone through these exact same documentation issues your having.

This is the true open source spirit. Get something for real cheap, provided you can decode the mystical writings of a hundred people that got bored of writing documentation half of the way through.

Well, if you're really keen on not having to decode mystical writings, you could pay someone else to do it for you. That's effectively what you're doing (sharing the cost with everyone else), when you buy something rather than get it for free.

You willing to put forth an offer? I'm sure with the right price, you'll find someone willing to do it for you. Now *THAT*s the open source spirit. ;-)

This is the true open source spirit. Get something for real cheap, provided you can decode the mystical writings of a hundred people that got bored of writing documentation half of the way through.

Nope. The true open source spirit is to not join a project and then fork your documentation and files (i.e. parts) into your own server for ... inexplicable personal reasons. For RepRap, parts with a webpage and photo/render_ are more important than text; parts >= documentation.

Also, Zaratustra, BeagleFury, you guys should either tear chunks out of me for not having coded the perfect post-mediawiki server, or start working on it.

But direct that anger into useful work, rather than at each other. After you rage a bit at developers who fork stuff and don't commit documentation (parts) to RepRap.org. Call them The Forking Developers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 07:12PM by SebastienBailard.

Ok, knowing that we're not alone certainly makes me feel better. I suppose we'll keep fighting through this then until we end up with a working RepRap. I personally would love to help sort this out once I understand it. From everyone's posts, it seems that there are a lot of reprap.org subdomains. Could someone please explain the purpose of each one? dev.forums.reprap.org and forums.reprap.org I noticed both seem take you to the exact same place. Am I correct in deducing that reprap.org is the "twiki" and objects.reprap.org is the mediawiki? Even then, what/where is this "post-mediawiki" solution I hear mentioned?

One thing that I think would take care of most of this would be an outline of the entire website. Outlines provide a clear and concise data structure. If someone made an outline-style site map, I think it would become clear where pieces of information belong. I'm willing to work on creating one, but I'd need some reference point to work from. Is there any existing public directory-tree or site map available?

Another thing I was thinking about was the way all of the different projects are mixed together. Would it be a better idea to, for example, create one page for making your own RepRap electronics, and then linking to a separate page detailing the differences between the MakerBot and RepRap versions? I feel like the only pages that should discuss two different machines should be pages intended to document the differences. That way, if someone wants to build a Mendel, like we do, we only need to look at "original" Mendel pages. If we know we need to buy MakerBot parts, then we can consult pages that show how to use these Cupcake CNC parts in a Mendel.

In other opensource projects, you do not see the forks and the originals mixed together like this. Most of the time, the forks have their own websites. At the very least, I think forks should have their self-contained own pages (or whole sections, for major forks like the Cupcake CNC) of the wiki. I would say it's fine to link, something like "The __[fork name]__ fork is built differently."

I hope my ideas make sense. Unfortunately, I often find myself miscommunicating my thoughts. By the way, I am from the United States, and we are (trying) to build a Mendel.

Edit: I just noticed your link to the thread about the post-mediawiki, SebastienBailard, I'm reading over it now.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2010 08:10PM by Hypoon.

This wont catch on unless there is more organization in the wiki.

The future of the project boils down to that.

Might i propose that we start a new thread, brainstorming all of the problems with organization, and forming an idea of an ideal structure for a better wiki page. From an outline we can go about finding the right people to fill in the information.

When i came to this forum the first thing i was going to ask was "where is the wiki?" I found it, and was extremely disapointed to find such a wiki for such a motivated group of individuals.

I have no disrespect for any of the people who put it together--its a dificult task that requires help from everyone. But I believe we should start one from scratch, either incorporating bits of the old one, or placing the redesigned page somewhere in the existing one.

I think you guys are WAY over thinking this.

There are really only 4 solid RepRap/Strap desings.

Makerbot
Rapman
Darwin
Mendel

Each of these have fully functioning, cleanly documented wikis. Ponoko Darwin, and Makerbot can both be built without RP parts, and the Wiki's tell you how. McWire is the only non documented version, and that's because it's the most free form. Mcwires are everything from the plumbing pipe babies to the Hydrorapters of the world, all are a Mcwire style machine.

If you want "easy" buy a Makerbot or BfB Rapman. If want more of a challenge self source a Makerbot or Ponoko Darwin. If you want to make friends, go into the forums and maps and find a person that owns a Makerbot/Darwin/Rapman near you and ask to use their machine.

Going through and spending a lot of time rearranging the deck chairs on the Wikis is a waste of effort.

Stop "planning" your printer and start getting the parts. If you need help we will all happly answer any question you have. Once we help you get your printer up and running go back and fix the wiki yourself.

---

repraplogphase.blogspot.com

spacexula, I completely and utterly disagree.

I just spent 25 minutes telling a Portuguese guy that I didn't want him forking the RepRap parts=documentation/community into his own Portuguese empire. Utterly politely, because it's hard to pound a guy's skull against a wall using an email client, and besides, he didn't know he was doing anything wrong; he's just interested in monetizing ad revenue and setting up his own private garden. If I'd let him, we'd have another N set of wikis to deal with.

---

Here's the Italian documentation for RepRap; but the Darwin stuff is spotty, because hey! That's on another server.
[objects.reprap.org]
Oh, and the extraordinarily popular laser cut RepStrap that one developer did up? ... He's not writing it up on RepRap.org, any more than he's writing up his new extruder mods on RepRap.org.

And the electronic are on 3-4 different servers, and the extruders are on another server, and so on.

Everything should (and will) be on one server. Including laser cut RepStraps. And laser cut extruders. And every damn variant of electronics. In every language that people are willing to work on. On one wiki. And parts >= than words, when it comes to documentation, and parts, well, they're scattered all over the place.

---

This is a public forum; you're allowed to post whatever you want, but when other people exclaim their frustration, you should respect that, especially when it results in the change in the system.

If you are frustrated with the discussion, ignore it rather than contributing to it because you think it is noise. Instead, go work on bug #0002, bug#0016 or
[dev.forums.reprap.org]

Again, I ask that if you find this discussion bores you, to just lurk until we fix things.

Once we help you get your printer up and running go back and fix the wiki yourself.
... Which one? We've got lots. Again, if you're not interested, it isn't necessary that you waste your energy in this thread. I think the situation is broken.

Might i propose that we start a new thread, brainstorming all of the problems with organization, and forming an idea of an ideal structure for a better wiki page. From an outline we can go about finding the right people to fill in the information.

Agreed. That's tucked away in Library Admistration and Announcements:
[dev.forums.reprap.org]

No one ever read my memos! Sob. Sob. Weep. Faint. Perhaps 'Library Admistration and Announcements' was not a very sexy name, unless you need a secret place for your revolutionary cadre to meet.

I've left this thread stuck to the top of the forum to give people a chance to vent. And get really pissed off. And then try to fix things. But the revolution? Well, we're planning that over in Library Admistration and Announcements:
[dev.forums.reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2010 12:52AM by SebastienBailard.

Oh, and here is some more analysis/rambling on RepRap postmediawiki needs:
e.g. personal blogs, like misterbunny.reprap.org for our developer mister bunny to blog, where his blog can be mirrored into the forum, or the 10,000 users, 10,000 parts files scenario, whence a traditional mediawiki goes and disappears up its own bottom, because it's not designed around parts and blogging.

[objects.reprap.org]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2010 12:57AM by SebastienBailard.

Reply to the original post.

I hear your pain I really do. I bought a kit almost two years ago and it's been a baptism of fire ever since.

You are right about the documentation. I feel we need two versions of the documentation.
A stable version for beginners and an experimental version for the more advanced.
I shudder to think how many people have been turned away due to the confusion of trying to build a project which is constantly evolving.

It would be nice for the darwin documentation, which has been superseded by mendel and therefore should not be changing, to be wrapped up into a single PDF with a working and final copy of the BiosFirmware and repraphost along with a final version of gen 2 electronics specification and archived.

But I am afraid that the people with the access to the server do not have the time and the people who have the time do not have access.

Grin

Stephen

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2010 01:25AM by stephen george.

Hmmm interesting point about Darwin being completed.

I was going to put Full documentation on the Wiki to build a Plastic Corner Block Darwin as it can be built with quite a low parts cost this way.

However Mendel appeared on the scene so I didn't.

As far as cost is concerned using the Plastic corner blocks to build Darwin or Mendel the cost is not that much more for Darwin.

Just a few extra threaded Rods and two more low cost stepper motors that is about it.

There are two flavors of the plastic corner block Darwin build as well.

One is a lower cost as it doesn't use Skate bearings just corner block bearings.

The other uses 24 skate bearings or 28 if using bearings on the z Drives. So the Skate bearings are the extra cost.

My aim was to get the build cost as low as possible to enable a bigger user base.

So maybe I should still post the full instructions to build a plastic corner block Darwin with full details of its costs.?

I abandoned it as I thought no one will want to build a Darwin any more!!

PS. Both builds do have a lower total cost than one built using printed ABS parts based on the cost of the 3mm ABS Welding Rod required.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2010 03:55AM by BodgeIt.

---

Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

---

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board	BIQ Stepcon	BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB	BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement	BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting	BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting	Print It Stick It Cut it

My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]

Right now the twiki->mediawiki transtion is stalled, and I'm restarting it with the help of one or two other folk.

Having everything in the mediawiki will help quite a bit. I think the core team of developers will be ok with having the core articles world-writeable-and-patrolled. as with some of wikipedia's pages.

I've been talking up something called postmediawiki and generally pouring oil on flames here. I think it's important for me to concentrate on fixing the mediawiki and completing the twiki->mediawiki transition before revisiting other issues.

I would prefer it if I finish the Mendel build and actually printed some thing on both Mendel and Darwin. Before I start posting the full instructions.

So there is no immediate rush as far as posting these to the Twiki or Wiki is concerned.
Particularly as Midge will want to be sure what ever I post has good grammar and spellings in it so it will face a technical author review.

So I will create most of it off line, I think so its just a cut and paste exercise to put on the Twiki or Wiki.

---

Bodge It [reprap.org]
=======================================

---

BIQ Sanguinololu SD LCD board	BIQ Stepcon	BIQ Opto Endstop
BIQ Heater Block PCB	BIQ Extruder Peek clamp replacement	BIQ Huxley Seedling
BIQ Sanguinololu mounting	BIQ standalone Sanguinololu or Ramps mounting	Print It Stick It Cut it

My rep strap: [repstrapbertha.blogspot.com]

Buy the bits from B&Q pipestrap [diyrepstrap.blogspot.com]
How to Build a Darwin without any Rep Rap Parts [repstrapdarwin.blogspot.com]
Web Site [www.takeaway3dtech.com]

Things are a bit confusing, yes getting what you need is an ordeal. However I think that having to take some time to do some intense research and looking at all variations you get a good idea of what your getting into and you get ideas for features you want to add to your machine. I am still building my Darwin, I will make a Mendel when the Darwin is finished. I feel my Darwin and my build is benefiting from the amount of research I did. I knwo my machine is going to work and work well because of that. A little more organization would be great but I think it needs to be explained that building a machine is an undertaking. It can be done but this is not a build it in a day process.

Curly

Particularly as Midge will want to be sure what ever I post has good grammar and spellings in it so it will face a technical author review.

As long as you're doing a cursory first pass with firefox's spell check, I'd recommend working fast and loose. But do what makes you comfortable and happy.

---

Twiki is locked down, and will get transitioned to the mediawiki.

---

I think we're going to unlock the locked stuff on mediawiki soon and switch it to "Patrolled".

Curlrup, I understand what you're saying, but if RepRap is to flourish, it should be a "buy the stuff, follow the instructions, start printing" process. There won't be a reprap in every home if nobody can build them.

I really like the idea of a stable/development setup. It seems like the normal Mendel is ready enough to be considered "stable", but most of the variations (wood Mendel, metal Mendel, etc...) should maybe be "development". That works for most open source projects.

(Just my two cents)

Hypoon, that's a long way down the track- just look at desktop linux.

however, feel free start a blog and tell us how you fixed everything in a way that works for everyone

Hypoon () said
I really like the idea of a stable/development setup.

Triffid_hunter said()
Hypoon, that's a long way down the track- just look at desktop linux.

My reply
Actually the idea of a Stable version and a development version was taken from the linux kernel where you used to have a stable version which was even version number and an odd version which was developments.

In my case I was building a darwin. I decided to use SNAP firmware. Which failed to compile. I went to Gcode which also failed to compile due to being too large.
When I finally resolved the issue I found that I had a bug in the DC motor firmware as things had moved on to a Stepper feeder. Then the reprap host instructions were out of date and did not match the latest software which failed due to 5d Gcodes.

This was a total nightmare. Which almost saw the reprap being posted back to the UK in tiny little bits.

I see no reason why anyone else should go through this pain barrier. Hense the suggestion to lock in a set of instructions/firmware/reprap host/compiler which works and only make correction type changes not enhancements.

regards

Stephen

Triffid_Hunter, having RepRap ready's not all that far off. I do plan on organizing all the info after I complete my own RepRap (soon). Everything's here, it's just spread out all over the place. The problem with desktop linux was that not everything was there yet (good wifi support, getting away from CLI necessity, etc...).

Stephen george: my thoughts exactly.

To be honest, I think the best course of action is to just start from scratch. The problem with moving things around is that A) There's a lot of information to go through and There's a lot of useless stuff to go through (pages with one word links to blogs and the like). This is too much work, and the end result won't be as nice as we'd like it.

What we need to do is establish some guidelines for posters to follow. These guidelines will be user enforced, as it should for any wiki. The idea is to create an environment where users are comfortable posting their own information by making it obvious where information should go.

By starting with a clean slate, we can get rid of a lot of the clutter. We can archive the old Wiki and copy over the important information as needed. This way, we can weed out any information that is irrelevant, incomplete, or obsolete. My philosophy is that wrong information is worse than no information.

What we need to do is figure out how we're going to organize all the information. There are a lot of good ideas around here, so keep them coming. I'm by no means an expert in fabrication, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance when it comes to the subject. As far as organization goes, however, this is what I would like to see:

Main Page - Current main page, with the mission statement of the project
--RepRap
----Mendel
------Stable Version (Version numbered and dated)
--------This contains information on how to build a Mendel that is guaranteed to work. This page is not expected to change much once it has been established. Changes will only occur if findings to improve the version has been proved to be stable and universally beneficial.
------Development
--------This contains information on the shortcomings of the Stable version, and with possible solutions.
--------This also includes extra parts for a "premium build", which includes information for a heated bed, granule extruders, etc.
--------Each topic should be linked to a discussion forum for developers to bump heads and come up with new ideas.
----Darwin
------Stable Version
------Development

--RepRap Spinoffs
----Makerbot
----RapMan
----Tomellise
----ETC
----This are is mainly for information about the different models, and a brief message on what they are trying to improve over the RepRap design. Information for building and using these devices, however, should be avoided. The purpose of these pages is mainly to itemize their philosophies in hopes of improving RepRap and move onto the next version.

We also need plans for several different kinds of RepStraps and the various post-Mendel stuff that is in various stages of conclusion.

As long as everything is tidy and labeled, users won't be confused.

---

RepRap.org is a place for research for everyone, not just where Adrian and his students keep their notes and completed projects.

This is why [[RepOlaRap]], [[SpoolHead]], [[Eiffel]] etc. are up there. Because all of you guys are RepRap user-developers!

---

-Sebastien, RepRap.org library gnome.

---

Remember, you're all RepRap developers (once you've joined the super-secret developer mailing list), and the wiki, RepRap.org, [reprap.org] is for everyone and everything!

-- moved topic --

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2010 01:49PM by SebastienBailard.

As a newbie, I see one problem with the stable build. How hard is it to get the electronics for an older model? The software analogy breaks down at this point. Old code can be copied without significant cost.

I'm perfectly capable of soldering everything from scratch, so maybe if all the fundamental components are listed in the stable guide, as well as some kits, that'd work.

I would like to start dipping my toes in by starting with a RepStrap, etc. I'm daunted by the questions I have to make a working Mendel. Not only do I have to figure out what in the directions is out-of-date, I also have to figure out what the most up-to-date advice is.

I'd be willing to be a guinea pig for a new writeup of the directions, figuring out where they're good or bad, helping to improve it, etc.

I agree with the start from scratch concept. I think this pretty sums up what I want to see:

[wiki.makerbot.com]

Just about foolproof, they goofed on making it clear you need the USB-TTL cable, sold separately.

I am happy to start by contributing a very clear "idiot proof" set of mcwire build steps from ground zero to making mendel parts. I believe I also have the possibility of getting the cost under $100/$150 (excluding electronics) and all parts purchasable at any lowes/homedepot. I would even be willing to put some effort into a video of the whole process.