cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi?
Posted by mung
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Re: cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi? October 09, 2014 05:56PM |
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pushthatbolder
$1,600,000 GOAL!!!
Seems high
you stated Total cost £16800 in the description.
you prices seem inflated. you could get all that for $3000 tops.
never use the words 'Drop Ship'
dont use words like 'Chinese' or 'China' or 'Cheap'
find another supplier if you only get price breaks after 10'000 pieces,
most are happy with orders of 100 to get discount prices they cost about $5 each if you buy 100 units,
if it 10'000 units, you may as well start a factory.
30 suppliers, wow, alot can go wrong with a large spectrum supply chain.
dont say you are going to have to buy a laptop, or things you should already have.
you should already have most of that, to warrant auctually offering the product.
the video was boring, enough that i did not watch after 10 seconds.
after 10 seconds, i know if i want to finish.
what you offer as the perk only cost between $50 and you are trying to get $160
I could sell you this kit for $50 no problem.
you have defeated yourself in your description.
good luck in the future mate.
I think you gave some good advice and I will definitely review the project and rewrite the blurb.
I said it myself in my project outline, I think the project if doomed to fail due to price as I obviously cannot get the good prices compared with those within the control systems cartels. From comparisons with ebay prices the package is about the same price as buying items seperately as individual items from the cheapest ebay suppliers.
I am hoping I can take you up on your offer to supply the package of items required for $50, and we could workout a crowd funding project together. I seriously think if we could get a price point of $60 we could probably shift 5,000 and that would cover development costs and you could have the same just as sales commission.
I will private message you and we can workout a deal ready for when my indiegogo project ends.
Thanks for the input pushthatboulder.
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Re: cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi? October 09, 2014 06:23PM |
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Traumflug
I did controller development already and needed neither function generators nor multiple RaspPis. And Eight milling machines to develop one driver? A cheapo WolfStrap is entirely sufficient.
Seriously, this sounds much more like a christmas wishlist than actual requirement.
Hell yeah its a christmas wishlist, I am not doing this for nothing.
But all parts are necessary for a no fail completion of the project, the eight milling machines are so I can test and document cnc converting all the different models that are available on ebay.
As far as not needing function generators or oscilloscopes or multiple models of the development board, if you did not have that how did you actually properly test and document how your controller functioned with different inputs and outputs on different models and what the controllers operation parameters were?
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Re: cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi? October 09, 2014 06:42PM |
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cdru
It doesn't just SOUND like it, it IS like that.Quote
Traumflug
Seriously, this sounds much more like a christmas wishlist than actual requirement.
That being said, I'd like to announce my indiegogo project. I'm raising funds to develop a 32-bit ARM-based cold fusion extruder. Now I know what you're thinking...what experience does cdru have at developing a 32-bit ARM-based cold fusion extruder? Well, I have absolutely none. But I'm determined to get this done or take everyone's money trying. Once it's complete, people will have a extruder that is guaranteed to work as long as they don't actually try to use it. Now I can't ensure that even if I don't just run off with the money that a cold fusion extruder is even feasible, let alone a 32-bit one, as I haven't done any actual calculations, but I have spent the last 3 years thinking about extruders so that should be good enough.
I have made some wild ass guesses and illogical assumptions and all I need is $500k to reach my very realistic goal for production. Obviously I'll need a new house, and car, and a kick ass home theater. And food. Lots and lots of food. Delivery pizza is expensive and a key component of my development efforts. Plus since I want to do this full time I've already quit my job but I need to support my family so I decided I'll work for a low salary of $100k/year. This amount should fund me for at least a year. Maybe a year and a half before I'll have to come back and ask for more.
To help raise funds, I'll be selling $.02 resistors for $100 a piece. Now yes that does sound a lot, but I'll only need to sell 5000 kits instead of 10,000 which is a much more reasonable expectation. If people purchase more than one resistor, I'll give them the option of picking the value for an additional one time fee of $50 per resistor.
If anyone is interested, please send me your credit card number, or your paypal credentials, or just your bank account and routing number. I'll handle the rest for you and get back to you someday, maybe.
Lol
, you may think that, but everything has been agreed with manufacturers and wholesalers for the items that are offered as perks, and I believe the perks are not expensive or worse quality than anything that is offered by every other reprap and 3d printer supplier that sells stepper motors, driver boards and power supplies.The perks provide funders the hardware at marginally above cost that I have agreed with suppliers, and the project will give people a step by step video guide on how to assemble and run a 5axis stepper motor kit and run it with linuxcnc on the raspberry pi.
The test equipment and materials will all be used for making sure the gpio input driver works correctly and has a verified latency and specification. Other parts will be used in making videos showing how to use the motors with cheaply available lathe/mills from ebay.
Your cold fusion comment spurred a stream of consciousness of my very early youth when that cold fusion thing happened in my city, I could digress further on the subject but do not have time to waste, maybe I will let you know another time.
Do you have anything constructive to reply?
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Re: cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi? October 09, 2014 08:08PM |
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cdru
If anyone is interested, please send me your credit card number, or your paypal credentials, or just your bank account and routing number. I'll handle the rest for you and get back to you someday, maybe.
Will you take cash through the mail?
In all seriousness, your parody covers every base for why I don't even read Kickstarter and those other begging for money sites.....
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Re: cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi? October 10, 2014 08:45AM |
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vreihen
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cdru
If anyone is interested, please send me your credit card number, or your paypal credentials, or just your bank account and routing number. I'll handle the rest for you and get back to you someday, maybe.
Will you take cash through the mail?
In all seriousness, your parody covers every base for why I don't even read Kickstarter and those other begging for money sites.....
I actually think the parody was rather simplistic and lacking in coverage of all crowdfunding subtltys it also had insufficient puns and misquotations, I am sure I could have done something better if I had tried, but I am attempting to avoid wasting time on such things thesedays.
I think the idea of crowd funding should be a very good one that will allow greater efficiency in knowing how much should be expended on production and what quantities are required. Trust is an issue and also knowing if a project is actually deliverable is another factor, buying into a project where you know that everything has actually been manufactured already and you know what you are getting should be a no brainer if it offers a lower price due to economies of scale buying power.
Funding research and development is always a risk and I hoped to share this risk amoung a large number of people and also offer the bulk buying power on direct sourced components to make it such that investors would get products that would be at a lower cost than available elsewhere and they would also be helping to fund development of open sourced software that would work with the hardware.
Others have stated they can get the hardware for less than a third of the prices I have negotiated, I don't know if this is really possible or is just lies, as I have not had any response from those people I cannot say. Unfortunately this site is really only an educational venture and I do understand the way university and government work with these matters and cannot allow anyone to profit from education other than students or those in the ivory towers.
I also know that almost everyone that regularly contributes to this forum has a vested interest in some way. There are many people here that work selling parts for 3d printer hobbiests and do not want any competition, there are people that want to stop others developing things that may compete with their own ideas, there are people that want to steal ideas and profit from the work of others, and there are even some young fanatics that just want to shout and support their own choices in buying given products and pretend they know best because they can repeat what others have told them even thought they have not thought deeply on the subject.
It is often very hard to judge what a persons motivations and abilities are as this takes some communication and building of trust, unfortunately I have never found anyone on this forum that I would trust very much, there are often a few interesting comments but most seem incorrect or lacking depth of thought, my guess is there are probably only a handful of really knowledgable people on this site and they are often closed and confrontational when anything new challenge their ideas.
I am being totally honest with my crowd funding project, I do not expect it to succeed, but I thought I would give it a try as a form of market research to get an idea of how many people are interested in cnc and having a low cost motion control system. I am thinking
I am not trying to create a 'race to the bottom' though I wonder if that is what some here are trying for, I am trying to protect the bottom line, in the words of Michael Mates, "Don't let the buggers get you down".
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2014 08:48AM by mung.
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Re: cheap linuxcnc on the raspberry pi? October 13, 2014 04:58PM |
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cdru
Sure. Simply, you're nuts.Quote
mung
Do you have anything constructive to reply?
Being a little more detailed... Your campaign is completely unrealistic, overly pessimistic, and absolutely unsubstantiated with your capabilities.
I found every item on your shopping list except the USB cable which there wasn't enough specificity to determine what type and how long it was. In most cases, I'm reasonably confident it's the same item due to particular spelling and punctuation. For example for the mini pro your listing shows it as "Arduino pro min atmega328p board(with free Pin Header)" with mini missing the last i and no spaces after board and before the opening parenthesis. You asking to manage $1.6m dollars but you can't do basic proofreading or even not copy/pasting what some ebay ad wrote.
You can see a spreadsheet here. Total cost: 123.94 shipped to my door. That's with ordering a quantity of ONE for each line item. That doesn't factor in quantity discount and economy of scale savings if you ordered 10,000 kits. So with your estimate that you'll be "making" $3 on each kit sold, that leaves $33.06 in completely unnecessary overhead as all the items could be dropped shipped straight to the supporter, not to mention none of your individual components appear to be particularly premium quality items. It would be far easier for you, quicker for every would-be supporter, and better all around if people just spent the $126.94 to get the stuff directly and sent you the $33.06 as a donation. It would take less than 1/10 the number supporters to go that route and reach your goal and save you a ton of time and money handling 10k motors and all the other items. I also question if you could even handle the logistics of repackaging 10k kits in a reasonable period of time.
Imagine if you were going to a bank to ask for a car loan or home mortgage. Would you say things like "I think there is little possibility I could make the payments"? No. So why would you say things like "I think there is little possibility I can find enough people to fund [me]"? If YOU already realize the extremely unrealistic goals of selling 10k kits, and you set the project up so that you MUST reach that goal, then it's all but guaranteed that it is going to fail and it's a waste of everyone's time. Adding in "the more I have looked at this project the less I feel like it will work" and "Then there have been some problems with communication with Chinese suppliers" just reinforces the negativity and pessimism. If you're asking people to give you $1.6m dollars, you better ooze excitement and positivity that it can be done (even if in your head you don't think so). Your "If this project does not get funded" and "Finally" sections are a complete turnoff of any interest someone might have.
Finally, no where do you indicate any of your qualifications to know how to develop what you're developing. You don't state your education, your skills, your experience. I've seen previous posts (for example) where you said "I really don't know anything about electronical machines" and you didn't know what input, tolerant, and ttl meant. Now granted that was a year ago and you could be a really fast learner, but those aren't comments about someone who is already very skilled in doing what you are proposing to do. Those are comments from someone who has maybe a very limited working knowledge of digital circuitry and who can probably put together a circuit, but designing a completely new circuit to run in real time on a device that...really wasn't meant to run realtime...no.
Not to chit on your parade, but I have a feeling that the number of supporters isn't going to increase much over what it's at now. More power to you if you can, I just don't think you will.
Lol
Being a little more detailed... I think you spend a lot of time being completely unsympathetic, overly negative, absolutely unsubstantiated with your capabilities.
I know you dislike competition, and maybe you think attack is the best form of defence, but you make yourself look bad by attacking everyone with very poorly thought out arguements and personal attacks rather than focussing on the actual facts.
In any project there are many interlinked dependencies, exclusions, costs, doing part of a project cheaper may cause a knock on increase in price in some other area, this can make costing very hard.
I have stated some things in the project outline already, the two most important statements I feel are:
1) I cannot guarantee to get all items at the lowest possible price, therefore there is a higher price with a possible cashback
2) I do not think the project will be successfully funded
Because of number 1 number 2 is almost sure to follow, therefore this project really became a market research exercise for me.
I am not going to risk more than a few hundred hours and pounds on any project without the possibility of getting some return, all projects start out as interesting hobbies for me, but when they start to cost beyond a certain amount I make a decision on how much enjoyment I get and how much cost there is.
I can give you a run down of why the project is so expensive ($33.06 more than you can find parts for).
1) I have got samples from suppliers using a number of postage methods, because some are very slow this could cause major problems with complaints and possible paypal refund claims nightmares, therefore I chose to use DHL which is about $13 - $26 more expensive on the shiiping of the motors than the methods shown on your listings(I have actually tried shipping by china post and it took over 40 days).
2) The motors are special manufacture, this is why the large volume order required, dual shaft motors are more expensive and if you asked your suppllier to produce dual shaft motors I am sure you would have at least $7.50 more to pay on 5 motors for dual shaft and machining of flats
3) Volumes required, try and get all of your suppliers to guarantee to supply 10,000 of those items, and what happens if a supplier breaches contract and I need to source elsewhere of make legal proceedings?
4) Tax, imports into the UK of goods valued at over £17.50 incur VAT and customs charge handling fee and import duty HMRC FA 1994 S21 and S23 and also possibly 2013 GAAR (If I raise postage costs and have items ship in smaller value consignments), I have made allowance for all possible requirements and costs of getting an accountant to submit the costings to HMRC.
5) I do actually need to buy some test equipment and would like to get paid for the things that I do not enjoy doing.
6) I do not want to under price and be unable to to supply what I have said I will supply or make a huge loss to my own pocket.
Now you state I have not corrected what suppliers adverts say, and you may think this stupid but there are legal and contractual reasons for doing this, maybe it would look better if I edited suppliers specifications, but who is then responsible if a funding backer does not get what they expect?
Saying I will supply something different than a supplier has specified they can supply would be exceptionally stupid wouldn't it?
You 'also question if you could even handle the logistics of repackaging 10k kits in a reasonable period of time', yet I nowhere claim to package anything, I state in the project outline all products are 'drop shipped' (If you do not know what that is google is helpful).
You imagine going into a bank and lying about realistic goals and projected accounts?, you sound like the sort of people that caused the current financial crisis!
I base my projections on my own perspective of reality, I am not a liar, you say I am 'nuts' but I think you sound more like a nutcase, or at least a sociopath that is trying to encourage me to use under hand tactics, telling people untruths and having a view that is not based on reality is what you suggest?
In your reference to my previous post you missed out 'snarkiness' , and I am not sure you know what that means (have you found out what input, tolerant, and ttl mean yet?), but I think there is a strategy in most of my correspondence and maybe you do not see it (maybe everyone always says everything they know and spends many hours of their time explaining to others at every possible opportunity)?
I could explain the subtle way in which to handle possible trolls and how to gauge abilities and backgrounds of those that you interact with without allowing too much hostility inflation, but I am not going to, as its a waste of my time and yours with no profit for either of us(being too obtuse is not good).
You seem to me to be like a number of trolls that hang around this forum, or maybe you are just playing devils advocate, either way you are either having to handle 1000 posts a day and give a reply to all or you are somewhat shortsighted and lacking knowledge about how to best use your time. If you were given the indiegogo project outline as a test in english comprehension you would probably fail, but then again I would probably also fail english GCSE for writing that project outline, but in my defense I did write it from memory in one non stop session of 2-3 hours, and still have the intention of going back and proofreading it and making some corrections.
I said the indiegogo project is to fund the development of the linuxcnc drivers for raspberry pi, and I have reasons for thinking the rpi will be better for some purposes than the beaglebone, csi/dsi/gpu/ power performance etc etc (don't have time to give a full run down of a very complex comparison). I also think linuxcnc is very important piece of software for the future as it will allow people to design on standard software that will run on many different computing platforms and not lock robot developers into a single hardware platform and require relearning of low level platform programming.
I feel it was always a hard thing to fund as no one would give $3 for development without expecting a working driver with their hardware, then I would receive bad feelings from the hundreds of people expecting support on how to get things working with their rare and idiosyncratic hardware that they want to interface and cannot get working. The other way trying to give everyone the same hardware that is guaranteed to work requires a very large amount of negotiation and logistics and possible tax implications that make it hard for an individual such as myself to get certainty of actually not losing money.
Anyways thanks for the reply you have actually given me some useful input and thoughts for consideration, whilst at the same time making yourself look like a bit of an asshole (just my opinion, maybe I am being a bit thin skinned, but you do seem to be attacking me moreso than offering reasoned impartial advice).
Like I said it is more market research and I think the drivers are going back on the shelf and I will look at other things until I see another possibility for funding.
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