Hello
Posted by Mikeemoto
Hello everyone
Mike here from Scotland
Spent the past few days building no331
Well it's not finished yet
As a day job I'm a prototype engineer , so building this should have been a piece of cake
Now I realise that there's a need for profit on this product , but hellfire be lucky if there's £100 worth of stuff in the box
Anyway ,working on the x-axis at the moment ,the "laser cut" parts have a warp on them , and I'm hoping there's going to be a way to tie them together
The x carriage won't run along it happily atall ,
Other issues , y axis belt won't stay locked in place no matter how many bits of paper I wedge in place , needs a tensioner on it and a more positive way of fastening the belt
The roller bearings that run on the Bosch extrusion need adjusters ,not sticky tape
The Bosch section could be tied together more positively ,then perhaps one alignment issue would be lessend
And they might of specced hardened ground rod for the linear bearing rails
Sadly not too impressed so far
Mike
Mike here from Scotland
Spent the past few days building no331
Well it's not finished yet
As a day job I'm a prototype engineer , so building this should have been a piece of cake
Now I realise that there's a need for profit on this product , but hellfire be lucky if there's £100 worth of stuff in the box
Anyway ,working on the x-axis at the moment ,the "laser cut" parts have a warp on them , and I'm hoping there's going to be a way to tie them together
The x carriage won't run along it happily atall ,
Other issues , y axis belt won't stay locked in place no matter how many bits of paper I wedge in place , needs a tensioner on it and a more positive way of fastening the belt
The roller bearings that run on the Bosch extrusion need adjusters ,not sticky tape
The Bosch section could be tied together more positively ,then perhaps one alignment issue would be lessend
And they might of specced hardened ground rod for the linear bearing rails
Sadly not too impressed so far
Mike
Hi Mike,
Guess I'm in a different camp, but respect your views, I also worked in proof of concept, prototypes and small productions, but I was amazed at what was in the box for the price!
The controller board with stepper motor drivers alone is £100+
Then there is the 4 stepper motors,
pre-assembled wiring looms,
heater plate.
hot end parts
laser cut parts
metal guides and extrusions
PSU
and all the 3D printed parts, that's got to be good value!
In my last job we paid £500+ for a few machined parts.......
Guess I'm in a different camp, but respect your views, I also worked in proof of concept, prototypes and small productions, but I was amazed at what was in the box for the price!
The controller board with stepper motor drivers alone is £100+
Then there is the 4 stepper motors,
pre-assembled wiring looms,
heater plate.
hot end parts
laser cut parts
metal guides and extrusions
PSU
and all the 3D printed parts, that's got to be good value!
In my last job we paid £500+ for a few machined parts.......
Yeah maybe I was a bit harsh there those steppers are about £12 a go , similar price for the drivers , so that's maybe a hundred
Tho at wholesale price about half that
Bosch extrusions not dear ,tenner a bit, silver steel £6 a length , couple of quid average for the bearings
Custom looms maybe £5 each ,less based on a 500 qty order
Maybe £200
Anyway ,
Crack on
Mike
Tho at wholesale price about half that
Bosch extrusions not dear ,tenner a bit, silver steel £6 a length , couple of quid average for the bearings
Custom looms maybe £5 each ,less based on a 500 qty order
Maybe £200
Anyway ,
Crack on
Mike
Hi All
I am working on replicating the Ormerod and so far a meterial cost of 300-350 seems to be the best I can do.
Rory
Mike I am trying to understand the difference between Ground rod and silver steel, Are you saying the rods with the kit are silver steel, I believe Ian from RRP may have said they use ck55 steel.
There is an adjustable part rather than sticky tape, they will send one if you ask. I did then found no play with the original.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 06:32PM by Rory166.
I am working on replicating the Ormerod and so far a meterial cost of 300-350 seems to be the best I can do.
Rory
Mike I am trying to understand the difference between Ground rod and silver steel, Are you saying the rods with the kit are silver steel, I believe Ian from RRP may have said they use ck55 steel.
There is an adjustable part rather than sticky tape, they will send one if you ask. I did then found no play with the original.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2014 06:32PM by Rory166.
There is a lot more to a product than the cost of the parts.. unless its a Chinese rip off of course 
regards
Andy
Ormerod #318
www.zoomworks.org - Free and Open Source Stuff
regards
Andy
Ormerod #318
www.zoomworks.org - Free and Open Source Stuff
Hi Mike
I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about cost, but please understand that we have put a lot of effort into producing this kit. It's not just the cost of the components, but the dedicated team behind it, the open source community that has contributed to the development, the staff that hand-produce a low-volume product, and the after-sales support we offer.
Without trying to sound too defensive, I'd like to address your points, to help you with your build:
- the "laser cut" parts have a warp on them
Not quite sure why you are putting "laser cut" in quotes? They ARE laser cut. If you have any fit problems, email me and request a new pair of x-rib and x-axis-plate. We have updated the lasercut parts for better fit, though a few minutes with a file will make them slot easily together, if you have problems. They shouldn't be under stress; they will bend, and probably break.
- The x carriage won't run along it happily at all
In what way? Do you mean the bearing on the back of the x-axis-plate? The weight of the hot end holds the bearing at the back against the plate. Some people have found the 9mm bearing gets trapped by the washer when done up; if you turn the washer over, because the washers are dished where they are stamped out, it should free the bearing. Some people have also found fitting a 623 bearing helps.
- y axis belt won't stay locked in place no matter how many bits of paper I wedge in place , needs a tensioner on it and a more positive way of fastening the belt
Are you sure you're pushing it to the back of the slot? This is one part that we have still to look at for updating, but few people have reported a problem. Another option it to clamp one of the foldback clips, or a cable tie, up against the rib, with the tail of the belt in the upper slot.
- The roller bearings that run on the Bosch extrusion need adjusters ,not sticky tape
some z-bearing-mounts seem to have printed 0.25mm wider than others. We have updated this with an adjustable part. Some people find it a problem, some don't. The part is available to print yourself - the printer will print happily with the fix shown in the instructions. I can send you a new adjustable one, but it will be green.
- The Bosch section could be tied together more positively ,then perhaps one alignment issue would be lessend
This would take an extra machining operation, and is unnecessary with the bracing already there. It doesn't have to be as robust as a drill/mill - the extruder doesn't have to push itself through material. As it is, it is far more robust than other framing methods used in the reprap world.
- And they might of specced hardened ground rod for the linear bearing rails
It IS hardened ground rod - CK55 - [www.metalravne.com]
Please take this as advice to help your printer build. I'm here to help, and we're committed to getting every customer printing.
Ian
RepRapPro tech support
I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about cost, but please understand that we have put a lot of effort into producing this kit. It's not just the cost of the components, but the dedicated team behind it, the open source community that has contributed to the development, the staff that hand-produce a low-volume product, and the after-sales support we offer.
Without trying to sound too defensive, I'd like to address your points, to help you with your build:
- the "laser cut" parts have a warp on them
Not quite sure why you are putting "laser cut" in quotes? They ARE laser cut. If you have any fit problems, email me and request a new pair of x-rib and x-axis-plate. We have updated the lasercut parts for better fit, though a few minutes with a file will make them slot easily together, if you have problems. They shouldn't be under stress; they will bend, and probably break.
- The x carriage won't run along it happily at all
In what way? Do you mean the bearing on the back of the x-axis-plate? The weight of the hot end holds the bearing at the back against the plate. Some people have found the 9mm bearing gets trapped by the washer when done up; if you turn the washer over, because the washers are dished where they are stamped out, it should free the bearing. Some people have also found fitting a 623 bearing helps.
- y axis belt won't stay locked in place no matter how many bits of paper I wedge in place , needs a tensioner on it and a more positive way of fastening the belt
Are you sure you're pushing it to the back of the slot? This is one part that we have still to look at for updating, but few people have reported a problem. Another option it to clamp one of the foldback clips, or a cable tie, up against the rib, with the tail of the belt in the upper slot.
- The roller bearings that run on the Bosch extrusion need adjusters ,not sticky tape
some z-bearing-mounts seem to have printed 0.25mm wider than others. We have updated this with an adjustable part. Some people find it a problem, some don't. The part is available to print yourself - the printer will print happily with the fix shown in the instructions. I can send you a new adjustable one, but it will be green.
- The Bosch section could be tied together more positively ,then perhaps one alignment issue would be lessend
This would take an extra machining operation, and is unnecessary with the bracing already there. It doesn't have to be as robust as a drill/mill - the extruder doesn't have to push itself through material. As it is, it is far more robust than other framing methods used in the reprap world.
- And they might of specced hardened ground rod for the linear bearing rails
It IS hardened ground rod - CK55 - [www.metalravne.com]
Please take this as advice to help your printer build. I'm here to help, and we're committed to getting every customer printing.
Ian
RepRapPro tech support
Ian
Thanks for your reply
I was just hi lighting some of the problems I've encountered so far , I've spent around 6 hours on the build thus far , the usual get everything out , get started , then get instructed
To do something more urgent ( accompany wifey to morrisons or the like usually ) , this tends to give me more time to think about building rather than the actual build
So
The larger bearings seem a way forward , my x-axis ( btw in regular milling / cnc's the long axis is usually the x ) has a lot of radial movement , I can see me printing another bearing carrier for this , in the mean time I'll fit the tape just to get on with it
The Bosch extrusion could be indexed together using a printed replica of the cast alloy part they do , I use a lot of this in 40x40 and lager sizes for building special purpose machines
As for the ground rods , the surface finish of these is like a lion bar compared to " proper ones " these are usually chrome plated , won't kill the bearings and won't create harmonics
During movement , I notced a post citing vibration in the machine during operation , rough rods coupled with steppers ( usually in micro step mode) add greatly to this
Apologies for coming across as unduly negative , I am enjoying the challenge
Mike
Thanks for your reply
I was just hi lighting some of the problems I've encountered so far , I've spent around 6 hours on the build thus far , the usual get everything out , get started , then get instructed
To do something more urgent ( accompany wifey to morrisons or the like usually ) , this tends to give me more time to think about building rather than the actual build
So
The larger bearings seem a way forward , my x-axis ( btw in regular milling / cnc's the long axis is usually the x ) has a lot of radial movement , I can see me printing another bearing carrier for this , in the mean time I'll fit the tape just to get on with it
The Bosch extrusion could be indexed together using a printed replica of the cast alloy part they do , I use a lot of this in 40x40 and lager sizes for building special purpose machines
As for the ground rods , the surface finish of these is like a lion bar compared to " proper ones " these are usually chrome plated , won't kill the bearings and won't create harmonics
During movement , I notced a post citing vibration in the machine during operation , rough rods coupled with steppers ( usually in micro step mode) add greatly to this
Apologies for coming across as unduly negative , I am enjoying the challenge
Mike
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