looking at getting an Ormerod 2, how do people like it?

Hi All,

I'm looking at getting a 3D printer, and am considering getting the Ormerod 2.

I've got a friend who has a flashforge dreamer who can make the PLA parts for me. I'm mainly looking to PLA prints as a hobbyist, but I want the expandability to add another extruder or other modifications as time goes on. I have quite a bit of technical experience, I've assembled computers from parts and can do a fair bit of programming. Looking through the assembly instructions I don't see anything I can't handle.

Anyways I'm looking for what people think of this printer. Common issues, hints for assembly, advice, how's their technical support, etc....

Also, I emailed RepRapPro and they told me their printed parts are PLA with 20% infill (I'm assuming line infill?) Anyone know how thick of a shell is best (I'd assume something that makes gear teeth solid)? And is there any advantage to making the infill higher, especially for the hothead parts (say 40%)?

Sorry about all the questions, but I'd like to be reasonably informed about the printer I'm looking at getting.

Hi shadow651,

I'm fairly happy with my Ormerod 1. As is common with a new design, it had a number of issues, which I sorted out (in some cases, requiring additional expenditure). These have almost all been fixed in the Ormerod 2. I spent a lot of time improving the firmware, and quite a lot of Ormerod owners now use my fork. I also did a dual nozzle conversion, which is described in my blog - but RRP has recently launched an official one.

You might be interested in my comparison of the Ormerod and Mini Kossel kits at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com].

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Building the kit is certainly a project rather than a flatpack assembly, but I am more than happy with my Ormerod 1 and as you have some experience it should not be a great challenge. To get the best you need to upgrade a few of the parts to make it more mechanically stable, but that is not much of a problem, and you can browse this forum for many upgrades that are available to buy or make. The printer works perfectly fine without any upgrades - it just needs checking & perhaps slightly readjusting before each print, though I believe the Ormerod 2 has fixed the worst of the stability issues. In my opinion you would be better off with the Ormerod 1 wiring setup, ribbon bed heater and Duet version & enclosure. The electrics were changed slightly in the Ormerod 2 to lower EMI for CE approval, but some of the modifications have caused a few problems (especially the change to the heated bed wiring), and it is more convenient to use the Duet's onboard switching regulator to derive 5V from 12V than to supply the printer with two separate voltages. So for a new build I would go with the Ormerod 2 mechanics but the Ormerod 1 electrics as I am not too bothered about EMI.

I replaced most of the original PLA parts with ABS parts pretty much as soon as I got it printing (some of the PLA parts will soften and warp if you plan on doing a lot of ABS printing). I use two perimeters and 40% rectilinear (line) infill, 3 bottom solid and 3 top solid layers. There are some STLs available to replace the supplied gears (Z gears and extruder) with double herringbone, which I would recommend going with. You will need to assemble the extruder by pushing both gears on together rather than putting the motor gear on separately the way the instructions state if you use that mod, but that's not very difficult. I also purchased a 30A 12V PSU (sold for LED lighting - look on ebay) as I could crank it up to 14V to get faster bed heating for ABS, because a PC PSU struggles to achieve the required 110 deg C (but gets there eventually).

Dave

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dmould
I also purchased a 30A 12V PSU (sold for LED lighting - look on ebay) as I could crank it up to 14V to get faster bed heating for ABS, because a PC PSU struggles to achieve the required 110 deg C (but gets there eventually).

I did a similar upgrade with a 25A PSU on my Ormerod 1. The Ormerod 2 already comes with a similar 20A PSU. I'm not sure that this would be adequate for a dual nozzle machine, but RepRapPro should be able to tell you.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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shadow651
I'm looking at getting a 3D printer, and am considering getting the Ormerod 2.

Before we got our Ormerod 2 we did a bit of research. We considered alernatives and found a compromise between the "do it yourself from scratch" and the "expensive but you can't fiddle with it". I have to say though, I have never touched another 3D printer so although we are happy with it, I don't know if there are better alternatives.

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shadow651
I've got a friend who has a flashforge dreamer who can make the PLA parts for me. I'm mainly looking to PLA prints as a hobbyist, but I want the expandability to add another extruder or other modifications as time goes on. I have quite a bit of technical experience, I've assembled computers from parts and can do a fair bit of programming. Looking through the assembly instructions I don't see anything I can't handle.

It prints PLA no problem. I did try ABS, and will try again in the future. The problems printing ABS I don't need to go into here, just needs a few modifications.

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shadow651
Anyways I'm looking for what people think of this printer. Common issues, hints for assembly, advice, how's their technical support, etc....

I put my feedback in this thread [forums.reprap.org] . There was nothing I couldn't sort myself so I didn't have to ask for technical support but it was good to see that reprappro (droftarts) is active on this forum.

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shadow651
Also, I emailed RepRapPro and they told me their printed parts are PLA with 20% infill (I'm assuming line infill?) Anyone know how thick of a shell is best (I'd assume something that makes gear teeth solid)? And is there any advantage to making the infill higher, especially for the hothead parts (say 40%)?

I could answer with my own findings, but we deliberately left the printer with the standard firmware, slic3r settings etc. until we had a good understanding. Then we started fiddling, changing firmware etc.

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shadow651
Sorry about all the questions, but I'd like to be reasonably informed about the printer I'm looking at getting.

No problem, hope I haven't confused you more.

I can also recommend the Ormerod 2. Especially with dc42 firmware which was quite an improvement. That said i haven't checked the stock firmware for a while so i am sure it also improved.

I still have problems to get my bed really flat but at least the bed level compensation is working so its not such a pressing issue :-)

I also had a monday duet board where a trace on the pcb was faulty but that was exchanged without problems.

I would also recommend ordering an 0.3 nozzle for finer prints.

As for the stability of the PLA parts i had no problems.

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dc42

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dmould
I also purchased a 30A 12V PSU (sold for LED lighting - look on ebay) as I could crank it up to 14V to get faster bed heating for ABS, because a PC PSU struggles to achieve the required 110 deg C (but gets there eventually).

I did a similar upgrade with a 25A PSU on my Ormerod 1. The Ormerod 2 already comes with a similar 20A PSU. I'm not sure that this would be adequate for a dual nozzle machine, but RepRapPro should be able to tell you.

Looking at the 2 head conversion kits being sold (to start shipping in Feb) RepRapPro seems to think that the built in PSU in Ormerod 1 & 2 is strong enough. Maybe they're tweaking the software to try and heat the two hot ends in alternation? Or it might just take forever to preheat. Although if they ever ship the mystical tri-filament mixing hot end (although they now have a picture of a prototype, so maybe sometime soon), PSU power shouldn't be an issue since there is still only 1 heater, assuming the mixer doesn't use too much power.
But even RepRapPro admits the bed heater kinda tops out at 100C, and can maybe get to 110 if you insulate it while pre-heating. I guess starting out I'm more thinking about PLA, if I decide to do some ABS I'll probably look at upgrading the power supply and/or bed, probably will also want to build some sort of insulated enclosure as well.

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tstone
I would also recommend ordering an 0.3 nozzle for finer prints.

Would I actually just order a One-piece stainless nozzle and Tapered brass M5 nut or would it be a second hot end to swap out? And how hard is it to swap nozzles? I assume in the software you just have to change a number in the config.g file and probably slic3r settings, but It's hard to tell how much of the hot end has to be disassembled to swap the nozzle, at least looking at the pictures in the assembly instructions.

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dc42
You might be interested in my comparison of the Ormerod and Mini Kossel kits at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com].

In here you mention that the Z-rod needs to be replaced every so often, or that you can put in a brass z-nut and replace that. Has this been improved in the second version any? and how often would you say you have to replace this? Also, how easy is it to locally source the rod or nut? I live in the US and shipping can take a while and cost a bit



Thanks to everyone for the feedback, I'm thinking I'll probably go with this printer, but I still have a bit before I buy it, and then who knows how long for it to be mailed to the USA.

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shadow651

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tstone
I would also recommend ordering an 0.3 nozzle for finer prints.

Would I actually just order a One-piece stainless nozzle and Tapered brass M5 nut or would it be a second hot end to swap out? And how hard is it to swap nozzles? I assume in the software you just have to change a number in the config.g file and probably slic3r settings, but It's hard to tell how much of the hot end has to be disassembled to swap the nozzle, at least looking at the pictures in the assembly instructions.

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dc42
You might be interested in my comparison of the Ormerod and Mini Kossel kits at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com].

In here you mention that the Z-rod needs to be replaced every so often, or that you can put in a brass z-nut and replace that. Has this been improved in the second version any? and how often would you say you have to replace this? Also, how easy is it to locally source the rod or nut? I live in the US and shipping can take a while and cost a bit

It is not all that simple to swap the nozzle - you need to pretty much disassemble the fan/hotend, and remove the Bowden tube. After changing it is the slicer settings that need to be changed and new print (g-code) files created, not the printer's configuration (the printer firmware does not need to know about the nozzle size).

The wear on the Z threaded rod is caused mainly by the automatic bed compensation, which drives the head up and down hundreds of times for every layer of the print as it follows the height of a non-level bed. One of the first modifications I made was to replace the MDF bed support with an aluminium support. The MDF is too unstable to maintain a level bed for long and so most people with an MDF support use bed compensation as it is much easier than mechanically levelling the bed before every print, but my metal support is stable and so it becomes possible to level the bed mechanically once and it will stay level (might need a slight re-levelling tweak every couple of months or after the printer is manhandled a bit roughly). Thus I do not need to use bed compensation, and wear on the Z threaded rod is very low, so even with the original steel nut I expect it to last the lifetime of the printer with 3-in-1 oil being applied regularly. If I recall correctly (but I may be mistaken) the Ormerod 2 has replaced the bed support piece with plywood, which should be far more stable than MDF, but I have no experience with that. My aluminium support is triangular rather than rectangular, and I think it is easier to adjust 3 points to be level than 4.

Dave

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shadow651

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tstone
I would also recommend ordering an 0.3 nozzle for finer prints.

Would I actually just order a One-piece stainless nozzle and Tapered brass M5 nut or would it be a second hot end to swap out? And how hard is it to swap nozzles? I assume in the software you just have to change a number in the config.g file and probably slic3r settings, but It's hard to tell how much of the hot end has to be disassembled to swap the nozzle, at least looking at the pictures in the assembly instructions.

If you plan to switch often i would recommend get two hotends, this can be replaced with two screws.

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shadow651
In here you mention that the Z-rod needs to be replaced every so often, or that you can put in a brass z-nut and replace that. Has this been improved in the second version any? and how often would you say you have to replace this? Also, how easy is it to locally source the rod or nut? I live in the US and shipping can take a while and cost a bit

I think rods shouldn't be too hard to get locally. If its this weird non metric stuff you probably have to change some factors in the config? Also if you maintain the rod with oil i think it will still last a little even with bed support running.

Just thought I would add my thoughts on the Ormerod 2 which I bought last September. It is a great kit as far as I'm concerned. Printer is pretty straight forward to put together and doing so gives you a good understanding of how it all works. Any problems I've had have been of my own making and this forum is a great place to get advice if you do have any issues. Kit is pretty good straight out the box. Having looked at various options for a couple of months I chose the O2 due to the build area size and the ease of upgrade to multiple nozzles (which I haven't got round to yet). Only thing I would definitely change is the x arm to an aluminium one. Original is ok but can flex a fair bit. Only word of caution I would give anyone thinking of buying a 3d printer is that it is a highly addictive hobby that can take over your life

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tstone
If you plan to switch often i would recommend get two hotends, this can be replaced with two screws.

The extra hotend will need to have its own cold block, Bowden tube with fittings, and its own heater & thermistor wired to a plug to make swapping reasonably quick (I think it would then be 4 screws? Two holding the hot block to the X carriage and two holding the fan, heatsink and cold block) You could then swap the Bowden tube at the extruder end, which is much easier than at the hotend.

Dave

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dmould

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tstone
If you plan to switch often i would recommend get two hotends, this can be replaced with two screws.

The extra hotend will need to have its own cold block, Bowden tube with fittings, and its own heater & thermistor wired to a plug to make swapping reasonably quick (I think it would then be 4 screws? Two holding the hot block to the X carriage and two holding the fan, heatsink and cold block) You could then swap the Bowden tube at the extruder end, which is much easier than at the hotend.

Dave

I know I could order a fully assembled hot end with the other nozzle size when I get the printer. But I'm wondering if it would just be better to get the 0.3mm nozzle with the printer (i can be a bit OCD about small details,). I know that the print speed will be much slower, but are there any other disadvantages to the smaller nozzle?

Nowadays I'd recommend buying an Ormerod 2, the progress on the firmware has been really great since I got my Ormerod 1 about a year ago. And AFAIK RRP has addressed many of the issues our Ormerods 1 had, although I can't judge how good RRP's new modulated IR probe actually is. I've been quite happy with dc42's single-nozzle IR probe and with DaveK's alu X arm replacement, it's a pleasure to see both of them in action (along with lots of other free Ormerod upgrades).

In addition, dc42 and I have improved the firmware quite a bit and I'm about to release a first version of my brand-new web interface soon, so you will see even more software improvements in the future. But I agree it's not only the assembly and software installation, getting things to work really well may take a while. OTOH, if you're looking for something you can tweak as you want to, I think you should really consider buying one though.

I've played around with both nozzle sizes. 0.3 does give you a more detailed print. I ended up getting a second assembled hot end just because it is easier to swap between the two. I found that the print probably takes about half as long again compared with the 0.5mm nozzle so a 3 hour print would take about 4.5 hours with the smaller nozzle.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2015 02:58PM by jsv555.

Unless you have done 3D printing before, I'd advise you to start with the supplied nozzle and see what it can do before deciding on a change. Nozzle diameter does not work the same as dot diameter in a dot-matrix printer and does not limit the resolution!

Apart from the slower printing speed (which will soon become a PITA), the smaller the nozzle the higher the risk of blockage (e.g. from dust on the filament). The detail obtained with a 0.5mm nozzle is better than required for most objects you will print. Horizontal resolution is theoretically determined by the step size of the motors, but in practice it will be governed by the backlash of the mechanics, it is never limited by nozzle size. Smaller nozzles can print finer detail (which is not the same as resolution!), but you probably do not want to go below 0.5mm detail width even if you had a smaller nozzle because such thin structures are very weak. Sure, any sharp corners in the XY plane will print with a 0.25mm radius (approx half nozzle diameter), but compared with print artefacts such as blobbing and ghosting it is unnoticeable (and in fact a desired feature for most objects).

Besides which, when really necessary you can print thinner (or thicker) extrusion widths with a .5mm nozzle. Extrusion width is controlled by the slicing application, and is a function of extruded volume and layer height rather than nozzle diameter - but go too much thinner than the nozzle diameter and it will not print very well.

The achievable surface quality of a printed object depends on the layer height and not the nozzle size, and you can print down to a 0.15mm layer height with the standard Ormerod (and some people have been successful with a 0.1mm height). You can slice a part so that the outer perimeters get printed with a thin layer height, but the inside infill is only printed every N layers (at N times the height of course). This gives a good compromise between finish and print speed. Very few things benefit from such thin layers, and the slow speed will soon have you printing at a more common layer height - you can always polish it up afterwards.

Dave

Having played around with both nozzle sizes I decided that 0.5mm was my preferred nozzle. As stated the reduction in print speed compared with the marginal improvement in print quality didn't seem worth it to me.

In my opinion you get a much better improvement in quality refining your print settings (bit of an art in itself) so that the correct amount of filament is being extruded than you do by going down to a smaller nozzle size.

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jsv555
Having played around with both nozzle sizes I decided that 0.5mm was my preferred nozzle. As stated the reduction in print speed compared with the marginal improvement in print quality didn't seem worth it to me.

In my opinion you get a much better improvement in quality refining your print settings (bit of an art in itself) so that the correct amount of filament is being extruded than you do by going down to a smaller nozzle size.

Many people tend to equate nozzle diameter with pixel size on a screen or dot size on a conventional printer, and think that smaller=better. In fact the comparison is completely false for several reasons, one being that 3D printing does not involve any form of greyscale, and the other, as said, is that nozzle size does not affect the positional resolution. A diagonally printed line on a paper printer is composed of a string of separate pixels (dots) and so large pixels will make the line come out as rough and jagged, but a line printed on a 3D printer is solid and straight with no discontinuities and will be smooth and almost exactly the same no matter what the size of the nozzle (so long as its width is >= nozzle diameter).

Nozzle size is more akin to the nib size of a pen. You would not want to use a very fine nib for most things, and it certainly will not make your writing look any neater - a fine nib is only of advantage if you want to write extremely small lettering, and similarly a small nozzle is mainly only required for printing small objects that have fine detail.

Dave

Nice analogy I guess what I was trying to say is if your nib is rubbish and dribbles ink everywhere you will end up in a mess

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dmould

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jsv555

Having played around with both nozzle sizes I decided that 0.5mm was my preferred nozzle. As stated the reduction in print speed compared with the marginal improvement in print quality didn't seem worth it to me.

In my opinion you get a much better improvement in quality refining your print settings (bit of an art in itself) so that the correct amount of filament is being extruded than you do by going down to a smaller nozzle size.

Many people tend to equate nozzle diameter with pixel size on a screen or dot size on a conventional printer, and think that smaller=better. In fact the comparison is completely false for several reasons, one being that 3D printing does not involve any form of greyscale, and the other, as said, is that nozzle size does not affect the positional resolution. A diagonally printed line on a paper printer is composed of a string of separate pixels (dots) and so large pixels will make the line come out as rough and jagged, but a line printed on a 3D printer is solid and straight with no discontinuities and will be smooth and almost exactly the same no matter what the size of the nozzle (so long as its width is >= nozzle diameter).

Nozzle size is more akin to the nib size of a pen. You would not want to use a very fine nib for most things, and it certainly will not make your writing look any neater - a fine nib is only of advantage if you want to write extremely small lettering, and similarly a small nozzle is mainly only required for printing small objects that have fine detail.

Dave

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2015 01:19PM by jsv555.

Honestly, the Ormerod 2 has been a huge pain in the @$$ relative to my Tricolour Mendel. Much more finicky in the build, and the feeding of the hot end is not good. Other people love theirs, so mine might be bad. But I vastly prefer the Mendel, even though it's got half the print volume.

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dmould
You can slice a part so that the outer perimeters get printed with a thin layer height, but the inside infill is only printed every N layers (at N times the height of course). This gives a good compromise between finish and print speed.
Dave

Dave, how exactly do you set this up in slic3r and simplify3d?

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

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appjaws1

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dmould
You can slice a part so that the outer perimeters get printed with a thin layer height, but the inside infill is only printed every N layers (at N times the height of course). This gives a good compromise between finish and print speed.
Dave

Dave, how exactly do you set this up in slic3r and simplify3d?

In Slic3r, set your layer height to the desired fine perimeter layer height (say 0.1mm), then go to "Print Settings">"Infill">"Combine infill every N layers" and set that number to (say) 3. Slicer will then print perimeters at 0.1mm layer height and infill the perimeter outlines every 3 layers with an infill layer of 0.3mm height. In S3D the equivalent setting is "Infill">"Print sparse infill every N layers"

Dave