still having problems

Hello all,

I'm afraid I'm still having problems commissioning my Ormerod 1.

I've found & loaded the relevant files but I haven't yet leapt the first hurdle.

After struggling with the hot end connector until it made decent contact I now get the following message:-

RepRapFirmware is up and running.
T:58.1 B:5.4
Temperature measurement fault on heater 0, T = -273.1

I've put a 100k resistor in place of the thermistor:-

T:18.6 B:-273.1

The room temperature was about 18c. At one stage the board wasn't recognised & I had to reload the driver. I've set the baud rate in Device Manager to agree with the Monitor. Both LED are lit & nothing on the board is getting hot. I've only used USB power from a dedicated computer.

Device Manager reads the board as:-
USB\VID2341&PID_003E\5&1F3FCFCC&0&
which means nothing to me.

Am I doing something wrong (not outside the bounds of possibility) or is the board suspect?

regards
CUA193

Quote
cua193
After struggling with the hot end connector until it made decent contact I now get the following message:-

RepRapFirmware is up and running.
T:58.1 B:5.4
Temperature measurement fault on heater 0, T = -273.1

I've put a 100k resistor in place of the thermistor:-

T:18.6 B:-273.1

Troubleshoot one thermistor at a time. I suggest you start with the bed thermistor. Normally, it should read quite accurately at room temperature - whereas the hot end thermistor may be quite a long way out (typically it reads low) on the Ormerod 1 until you use an ADC high end correction in config.g.

If the bed thermistor sometimes reads -273, then most likely there is a bad connection between the Duet and the bed thermistor. On the Ormerod 1 this is usually caused by a poor crimp connection on the thermistor lead. See if the thermistor wire pulls out from the crimp connector easily. I found it impossible to get a good crimp connection, because the thermistor lead is too fine for the crimp. So I soldered the wire to the inside of the crimp connector instead.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2015 02:06PM by dc42.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

DC42,

Some success.

I must admit I hadn't realised the B reading was the bed thermistor.

There was indeed poor contact, again at the connector. I put on a good, old fashioned screw connector & now have readings of:-
T: 58.1 B:28
without an error message. The connector is a bit bulky but at least it proves the point.

Thanks for your help. I have no doubt I'll be asking for it again.

CUA193

So is the problem now is that you are getting T: 58 when the hot end is at room temperature? If you have a multimeter, I suggest you measure the resistance of the thermistor when it is at room temperature. It should be 100K @ 25C, or a little higher if room temperature is lower. We already know the Duet is OK because you got a reading of 18.6C when you substituted a 100K resistor for the thermistor, and although 18.6C is a little lower than the theoretical 25C, it is within the normal range.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Now I'm going backwards again.

I decided to update & make sure I have all the latest drivers & firmware. Downloaded the relevant .bin & followed the instructions to the letter.
All seemed to go well, it loaded & verified the change & signed off as expected. before this I had to rename the directory to 160 as command wouldn't read it - seemed to be stuck in very early DOS as it would only read short names.

Rebooted to find that I'd lost the board in Device Manager, lost com3 in fact.

Reloaded the driver to com4 but couldn't get any readings from the Arduino program, no response from M105 0r M115'

Rebooted yet again , the board shows as arduino due on COM5 in Device Manager but gives:-

This device cannot start (code 10)

Again the computer cannot communicate with the board.

I'm getting extremely frustrated

Could anyone help? pretty please.

regards
CUA193

It sounds like the firmware upload failed and the board is seen as a raw Arduino device. Go through the firmware flashing process again (use the erase button as described to start with). Make sure that Bossac shows that the upload verified OK. Bossac should work OK with long filenames. I have attached a ZIP file containing the version of Bossac that works for me, together with listComPorts.exe and a cmd file that makes life a little easier. To use, ensure that you know what COM port your erased Duet uses. Note that this is likely to be a different port to the one used when programmed - and the COM port also changes if you plug into a different USB port on your PC.

The process I use is: (1) Plug the Duet into a USB port, wait 15 seconds. (2) Press and hold the "erase" button on the Duet for 10 seconds while it is powered up, then release the button. (3) Unplug the Duet and run "ListComPorts" in a DOS window, note all the ports (if any) that are listed. (4) Plug the Duet into a USB port and run "ListComPorts" again. You should see an extra COM port listed - and that will be the Duet port, make a note of its number. (5) Open "reprog.cmd" in a text editor and change the COM port (3rd line from bottom) in that file to the one your unprogrammed Duet uses. Save the file and close the text editor. (6) With the erased Duet plugged into the same USB port as in step 4, drag & drop the new firmware BIN file on top of the "reprog.cmd" icon in Windows explorer and it will open a DOS window and flash the Duet. (7) Repeat steps 3 & 4 to find the port that the Duet is now using, which is what you should use in Pronterface.

Dave

One other thing: make sure you have downloaded the firmware file correctly. Github makes it easy to download the HTML page describing the firmware file, instead of the firmware file itself. The firmware file you have downloaded should be around 200K in size.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I can now report total success with the upgrade.

After picking the bones of this and the parallel thread - e.g. counting 15 seconds while pressing the buttons. I couldn't find 'ListComPorts' so used Device Manager. As dc42 had guessed I'd downloaded the wrong file from the confusing Github pages; RAW to me means nothing more than uncooked!

I'm now getting:-
ok T: B:-9.4 H0:-9.4/-273 H1:16.3/-273.0
i assume the H0 & H1 are ranges. The reading for B: was 19.6 an hour ago. there's no value for T: at all. Room temperature is about 19c.

My problem now is trying to start Pronterface, when I double-click the 'ormerod.cmd' file the command panel flashes & disappears. When I use the command panel I'm told that the program is for win 7.

I'm still using 32bit XP. I've crawled all over Github & can find no reference to XP or 32bit .I know others use XP, what is the workaround?

please? pretty, pretty please?

First of all, H0 and H1 are heaters (first heater H0 -> Bed, H1 -> First extruder). Your bed temperature doesn't look very good, I suggest you check your connections once again before you continue.

You could try out an official Pronterface release, see [koti.kapsi.fi] - perhaps one of those work for you. Just ensure the Arduino serial port is detected and set to the right properties (115200bps, 8N1, XON/XOFF for flow control). But I'm seriously wondering why you don't simply use the Ethernet interface, it doesn't have a specific requirement for the OS and it works way nicer than Pronterface IMHO. I just wouldn't recommend loading the web interface with IE < 10, otherwise it tends to look quite messy.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2015 02:59PM by zombiepantslol.

Zombiepantslol,

Thanks for the prompt response.

I followed your lead to an earlier version which works on XP.

I have to use a dedicated computer, which has no close 'phone line, to drive the ormerod. I can't access the web.

Quote
cua193
I have to use a dedicated computer, which has no close 'phone line, to drive the ormerod. I can't access the web.

dc42's PanelDue would be perfect for you, highly recommended!

Erik

Quote
cua193
Zombiepantslol,

Thanks for the prompt response.

I followed your lead to an earlier version which works on XP.

I have to use a dedicated computer, which has no close 'phone line, to drive the ormerod. I can't access the web.

A simple crossover Ethernet cable and a static IP address will allow you to use the web interface - no Internet access necessary. It's well worth the effort!

Going backwards yet again.

The firmware update worked though I haven't seen the 'RepRap Firmware is up and running'. Pronterface now works ok. Web interface tries to work through a spare router, but the screen image is wierd.

My problem now is that I cannot get any reading for the hot end thermistor.

T: B:-9.6 H0 -9.6/-273 H1 -8.6/-273

I've put a heat source close to the bed thermistor

T: B:80 H0 80/-273 H1 -8.6/-273

The B: and H0 values are the same although the 12v supply isn't connected.

I tried all the tricks I tried earlier & can get no reading for the hot end thermistor - I even tried the resistor across the pins of the duet - still nothing. I can find no fault in the wiring, nothing has changed on the board.

CUA193

If it was working before, try sending a "T0" command to see if the temperature comes alive, and if not try a "T1" command. RRP has changed the extruder numbers a couple of times so it could be either depending on what firmware you have installed and the phase of the Moon etc :-) If that's not the problem you probably have a loose connection on your hotend thermistor - check the crimps & pins.

Is sounds like you may also be using the wrong HTML files in your "www" folder on the SD card.

Dave

Dave,

Tried sending 'T0' & 'T1' commands; Serial Monitor just says 'ok', sending the same in Pronterface gets no response.

I've again checked the continuity of the thermistor leads - no problem.

Although the duel is obviously connected I can't find a way to access it; I'd have thought it would show as a 'removable disk' or something else in Explorer. I'm loading the HTM file from c:\ drive. The same file, in the equivalent place, shows as I'd expect on another computer.

Still no reading for 'T', as there are now 3 threads running on the same or similar topic I'm obviously not alone in having problems. I've now spent weeks trying to sort this problem - I'm still on the first page of commissioning.

CUA193

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2015 04:47PM by cua193.

No,the Duet behaves like a serial COM port when connected by USB, it will not show up in "explorer" or anywhere else.

Dave

I regret to say that, despite the best efforts of those kind people who have tried to help on this forum, I have no progress to report.

I still get no reading at all for T:, I used to have a reading. I've gone backwards & reloaded firmware 0.78 in case it was that.

I have again dismantled the wiring, checked all the leads for continuity, checked everything in sight, examined the board with a magnifying glass & found nothing. I can only conclude that the board is faulty.

It's now 2 months since I assembled the kit of parts, 2 months of unretrievable time, 2 months when I haven't been able to do much else.

I notice the other thread from rodvan who has similar problems & is similarly exasperated.

I contacted support at RepRapPro and, apart from an automated reply have heard nothing.

The whole affair is unforgivably shoddy & leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. I am left with the conclusion that I have at best a very expensive ornament to gather dust, at worst a pile of junk. I know these machines can work, indeed I was talking to a chap who has two of them & is pleased with them. Why is mine a dud?

I know all the arguments about minority markets, economy of scale & experimentation. I appreciate that I bought a kit of parts which need assembling & that a ready to run machine would cost hundreds of pounds more but - and it's a big but - I expect all of those component parts to work properly. Like most people I'm perfectly capable of assembling the kit, as someone else said it's no more than an IKEA flatpack. Like most people, though, I'm not an electronics engineer, not a programmer & don't have a degree in computing. I've already had one career. I expect to make improvements to the basic machine - I bought an aluminium arm before the machine arrived - but I expect those improvements to make a good, working machine better

Of all things I expect the electronics to be foolproof. If I buy a printer for £35, I know it comes with a CD with all the necessary software, I know I can connect it & it'll work. I don't expect to be having problems with the electronics. Looking through this forum I see many threads which refer to poor manufacture, poor soldering, poor finish.

Whatever happened to quality control?

When I opened the box I was extremely impressed, everything was neat, organised & appeared to be of top quality. How my impression has changed!

CUA193

Hi Cua193

I was just answering your email, when I saw you had posted here again. Unfortunately, we've been very busy, and coupled with staff absence and holidays, we're a little behind. I'm working to get back on top of the situation.

Building, running, maintaining and getting the best out of a reprap can be a frustrating experience; it takes a range of skills, and it's a rare person that has all of them. Sometimes, it's something very minor that trips you up, and stops the printer working. We are here to help, and while I check the forums quite frequently, I don't always get the opportunity or time to reply, particularly if other forum members are already helping. We do reply to all email to support (eventually...), and are used to diagnosing problems, and working through to get to the solution. What we generally need, though, is information, to accurately diagnose the fault.

Regarding your problem, I've read through the thread, and I really think this is a set up problem, somewhat compounded by erroneous temperature readings to start with. You have updated the firmware, but you said you downloaded the 'RAW' version. This means you did not download the whole firmware repository, and probably means you have not updated the SD Image on the SD card. You should always use the same SD Image that is supplied with the firmware, as it says in the instructions. If you have customised any settings in config.g, you should copy these to the new config.g, rather than using the old one, in case you miss any new settings. The firmware does change over time, as new features are introduced.

Make sure you are using the latest SD Image (see [reprappro.com] )

In your forum thread, you say your temperatures are reported as: T: B:-9.6 H0 -9.6/-273 H1 -8.6/-273

If so, I would guess that you have a Duet with 1k ohm series resistors for measuring temperature, not 4.7k ohm. In your config.g, make sure the following two lines are commented out (ie with ';' before them)
;M305 P0 R4700 ; Set the heated bed thermistor series resistor to 4K7
;M305 P1 R4700 ; Set the hot end thermistor series resistor to 4K7

Setting this is covered in commissioning here: [reprappro.com]

I have written an explanation of how the temperatures are reported here: [reprappro.com]
This shows what should happen when the hot end is enabled; ie the temperature of the currently selected hot end is shown after 'T:'. If no hot end is selected or defined, this will stay blank. The bed temperature 'B:' is always shown.

If you are using an old SD Image, I think the code that defines the hot end will be missing from your config.g. I have written an explanation of how tools work in the commissioning instructions: [reprappro.com]

If you're using pronterface at the moment, remember to either click 'Check temp' or tick 'Watch', or the reported temperatures will not update. If you enable a tool and don't update the temperatures, it won't be shown as working, though it is.

If you're still having problems with the temperature response, first check the resistance of each thermistor with a multimeter, at the housing that plugs into the Duet; the hot end should be around 100k ohm (at 25C, 120k ohm at around 20C), while the heated bed thermistor should be around 10k ohm. You can (as you have before) put a 100k ohm resistor on the hot end temperature pins (E0_TEMP). For the bed thermistor, you must use a 10k ohm resistor not a 100k ohm - the bed uses a different thermistor range. Using a 100k ohm resistor will give a very low temperature reading. Testing thermistors is explained in more detail in the troubleshooting guide here: [reprappro.com]

Finally, it is possible you have a faulty Duet board; we will be happy to replace this under warranty, it's just we need to diagnose if this is actually the problem before replacement.

If you could report the outcome of each of the above, it will help diagnose where the problem is. If you can also send me a good picture of your Duet board, preferably with the wiring connected so I can check, and a copy of your config.g, we should be able to get to the bottom of the issue.

(Above also sent by email)

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Quote
cua193
I regret to say that, despite the best efforts of those kind people who have tried to help on this forum, I have no progress to report.

I still get no reading at all for T:, I used to have a reading. I've gone backwards & reloaded firmware 0.78 in case it was that.

I have again dismantled the wiring, checked all the leads for continuity, checked everything in sight, examined the board with a magnifying glass & found nothing. I can only conclude that the board is faulty.

It's now 2 months since I assembled the kit of parts, 2 months of unretrievable time, 2 months when I haven't been able to do much else.

I notice the other thread from rodvan who has similar problems & is similarly exasperated.

I contacted support at RepRapPro and, apart from an automated reply have heard nothing.

The whole affair is unforgivably shoddy & leaving a very bad taste in my mouth. I am left with the conclusion that I have at best a very expensive ornament to gather dust, at worst a pile of junk. I know these machines can work, indeed I was talking to a chap who has two of them & is pleased with them. Why is mine a dud?

I know all the arguments about minority markets, economy of scale & experimentation. I appreciate that I bought a kit of parts which need assembling & that a ready to run machine would cost hundreds of pounds more but - and it's a big but - I expect all of those component parts to work properly. Like most people I'm perfectly capable of assembling the kit, as someone else said it's no more than an IKEA flatpack. Like most people, though, I'm not an electronics engineer, not a programmer & don't have a degree in computing. I've already had one career. I expect to make improvements to the basic machine - I bought an aluminium arm before the machine arrived - but I expect those improvements to make a good, working machine better

Of all things I expect the electronics to be foolproof. If I buy a printer for £35, I know it comes with a CD with all the necessary software, I know I can connect it & it'll work. I don't expect to be having problems with the electronics. Looking through this forum I see many threads which refer to poor manufacture, poor soldering, poor finish.

Whatever happened to quality control?

When I opened the box I was extremely impressed, everything was neat, organised & appeared to be of top quality. How my impression has changed!

CUA193

Hi CUA193,
normally the majority of users do not leave messages if there are no problems....
My experience on the new kit is not bad.... if your board is faulty please contact Reprap for a replacement.
However from your previous posts it seems working...
In my opinion understand a process is a little more than buying a printer from £35!
This is a beautiful open project!...supported by a wonderful community!
Doesn't matter who you are..... everyone can assemble this kit.
I wish you to solve your problems as soon as possible and start a happy printing experience like mine.

Dario

---

Ormerod 187
Firmware Electronics: Duet 0.6
Firmware Version:1.18.1 (2017-04-07)
Web Interface Version:1.15a
Slic3r 1.2.9a and Simplify3D 4.0.0
[www.dropbox.com]

Just to respond to your a couple of your other points... rodvaN's problem is very different. He can't make contact with the Duet, probably because either the USB cable is damaged, or the USB socket has detached from the Duet PCB. And it would be nice if the Duet was seen as a mass storage device (like USB memory stick) when the SD card was plugged in, but unfortunately this functionality is not in the Duet firmware. A large proportion of people use the web interface, which does allow for uploading of files without removing the SD card.

3D printing is still in it's infancy, and home-built printers far outweigh any other kind (see pie chart here: [reprap.org] ). There really isn't such a thing as a 'plug and play' 3D printer yet, despite what any marketing hype would have you believe. Also the whole industry is structured differently, having grown out of the open source hacker/maker community. A £35 inkjet printer may be cheap, but it's taken 30 years to get to this point, and it also traps you into buying their ink cartridges, and using their software. The hardware is just not doing as complicated a job, either. I remember using early laser and inkjet printers, and many had poor hardware and software, and just as many issues with electronics!

If you want to send your Duet board and SD card back to me, I'll update the firmware, put the correct files on the SD card, and check it's working correctly before returning it to you, or repair/replace anything that needs to be. If you can reply to my email, I'll send you the return address.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Ian,
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. It's all the info I wanted two months ago & could have saved my frustration. With the info you sent me I've rescued the situation within 45 minutes.

I must say in my defence that I can only respond to the files I find, or to which I have been directed. I haven't before seen reference to 1k or 4.7k resistors, I took a backwards step by deleting the semicolons for M305 etc. as instructed on the sheet I had. I can confirm I have a board with 1K resistors.

I haven't before read that T0 won't read & seen the necessary code. I've written the code for T0 into config.g although even your mail doesn't make this clear. I'm still confused that the reference to this appears after the other info on the commissioning sheet which appears to show a valid reading for T0.

After following your suggestions I'm happy to say that I have sensible readings for both thermistors & the values go up & down as I'd expect.

It's running on firmware 0.78, I have already downloaded in full the last 4 versions. I'll continue with 0.78 & carry on with the rest of the commissioning. When I have a working printer I'll use the latest version..

BTW the reference to the £35 printer was a bit of a canard.

Thanks again for your help

I do have another problem. The computer I wish to use for the printer won't show the Web Interface properly - see attached file - with or without the LAN cable connected. This is obviously a Windows problem as the file works on my other computer which has the same version of XP.

CUA193

Quote
cua193
I do have another problem. The computer I wish to use for the printer won't show the Web Interface properly - see attached file - with or without the LAN cable connected. This is obviously a Windows problem as the file works on my other computer which has the same version of XP.

You may want to try this: [support.microsoft.com] I've heard of a few users who could fix their connectivity problems by resetting their TCP/IP stack once.

i think you dont have java installed ,web interface requires it i think

Quote
Darathy
i think you dont have java installed ,web interface requires it i think

Urgh no, the web interface is entirely based upon HTML5 and JavaScript, and you don't need Java to run JavaScript.

I get -273 on my bed thermistor every time I turn on the web interface, but when I set it to any temperature it works normally. It just shows -273 for the first time.

Hi cua193

Glad that helped, sorry I didn't reply sooner! Like I said, I let the forum get on with itself, and usually people are quick to say, if they can't help, to contact us directly. It just seems no one quite diagnosed what the issue was, so it was left hanging, though I think it was a couple of things at the same time. The 0.78c firmware should, generally, be fine; most of the commissioning instructions are the same, and I think the main place that they are different it is documented.

Regarding you web interface problem... from the image, it looks like you are connecting to the reprap image on your hard drive, not the ip address of the printer!

In the path it says: file///C:/RepRapFirmware-master/SD-Image-Ormerod-1/www/reprap.htm
You're connecting to an html file on your own computer, not the one on the printer. This won't work. As you're using 0.78c, you'll need to set the ip address manually; see [reprappro.com]
Set up the config.g, copy it to the SD card, plug the SD card into the printer, plug the printer into your network, and connect to the web interface by connecting to the ip address you set in the config.g. The main ethernet instructions are for the later firmware (1.09), which has much-improved networking, including DHCP and Netbios network discovery. Another reason to put the new firmware back on!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support