E3D V6 nozzle with Ormerod 2.

Hello, I have purchased a generic E3D V6 and are about to fit to my Ormerod 2.

My nozzle seems to be good quality and it is a perfect fit to the mount I have printed from thingyverse.

Would someone please let me know in simple English which changes I need to make to my config file, the new hotend is fitted with a 100K glass bead thermistor. (my original setup has a 4K7 thermistor)

The nozzle is 0.4mm which I will change in the slicer profile from 0.5mm.


Many thanks for any help.


Brian

Quote
Europa
Hello, I have purchased a generic E3D V6 and are about to fit to my Ormerod 2.

My nozzle seems to be good quality and it is a perfect fit to the mount I have printed from thingyverse.

Would someone please let me know in simple English which changes I need to make to my config file, the new hotend is fitted with a 100K glass bead thermistor. (my original setup has a 4K7 thermistor)

The nozzle is 0.4mm which I will change in the slicer profile from 0.5mm.


Many thanks for any help.


Brian

Check what DC42 wrote in my post: [forums.reprap.org]

Quote
dc42
I've just done some investigation, and it looks to me that although E3D say you should use a B value of 4267 in RepRapFirmware for the thermistor they supply, a value of 4388 will give more accurate temperature readings. I will shortly start a new thread on thermistor B values.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2016 08:47AM by Darathy.

If this is a clone nozzle you should use a value of 3950 instead 4267 or 4388. That works perfect for me.

Edit:
You only have to change this parameter:

M305 P1 R4700 H0 L0	B3950			; Put your own H and/or L values here to set the first nozzle thermistor ADC correction

The B-value depends on your thermistor. Have you a link to your nozzle?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2016 12:50PM by Treito.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Hi Treito,

Here is a link to the nozzle I purchased.


[www.ebay.co.uk]


Thank you,

Brian

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2016 06:14AM by Europa.

Hi Treito,

My current config file with the original hotend has the following M305 entry.

M305 P1 R4700

Do I change the above to:

M305 P1 100000 B3950

There are no H or L setting in the original line, not sure what they are for?

Many thanks,

Brian

You can change it to:

M305 P1 B3950

The H and L parameter are for calibration purposes only and not needed. That is why I used "0". I only prepared those entries.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Ok thank you Treito,

Much appreciated.


Brian

You are welcome.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
Europa
Hi Treito,

My current config file with the original hotend has the following M305 entry.

M305 P1 R4700

Do I change the above to:

M305 P1 100000 B3950

There are no H or L setting in the original line, not sure what they are for?

Many thanks,

Brian

Change it to
M305 P1 R4700 B3950

the R4700 is for the Duet Resistor values and never remove it or you will get wrong temperature readings

There are two thermistors in the current setup, a R4700 for the heated bed and an R4700 for the hotend.

As the new E3D V6 hotend has a 100K thermistor I assume that the hotend setting should be:

M305 P1 R100000 B3950.


Many thanks,

Brian

as far as i remember i did only change the B value when i mounted my E3D(it did also have a 100k thermistor) ,R is a resistor value not thermistor.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2016 02:40PM by Darathy.

Now you are wrong. Do not mix up the resistor. There is one resistor on the Duet. Either 4700 Ohms or the older versions were equipped with an 1000 Ohms resistor so you have to tell the Firmware with what resistor the board is equipped.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Ok guys, I get it now, I thought the R4700 value referred to the thermistor value but clearly it is a "series" resistor on the Duet so the R value should stay as R4700.

I was just looking at the Ormerod 2 build instructions on RepRapPro and now realise that the original thermistor was also 100K, hence no change needed as pointed out by Darathy.


M305 P1 R4700 B3950

Many thanks,


Brian

HAs anybody designed an holder for this head (or any other e3d heads)? Given the death of RRP I might ditch their single and dual heads to go a "safer" route

---

----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

There were some holders posted here: [forums.reprap.org]

I also have a design for the clone like the one linked above at thingiverse.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I have a spare original e3d-v6, I will have a look and print it. Thanks.

---

----- Making the world smarter @ www.xetal.eu
----- Helping entrepreneurs @ www.fralke.com

Since it's a recent post I was hoping to add a query which relates to this one.

As above I have a v6 extruder but instead of a thermistor I am using a K type thermocouple. My question will I need to change the config.g values to accommodate the v6 change?

Currently config.g is: M305 P1 X100... (Connected to pin 27 on the Duet).

Also is there a parameter in the setup files which controls the maximum allowed temperature setting needing to be adjusted as we are looking at extruding in excess of 300C. Like a safety parameter?

i think the firmware does not support Thermocouples. But DC42 will know more abaut it.

My 1.09r release supports thermocouples. See [reprap.org].

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Just to reiterate a query within my last comment which has actually become an issue.

Is there a software based safety parameter which limits the temperature of the hot end to 300degC?

Have tried controlling the print temp but it cuts off automatically when 300deg is reached. Is it possible to entend this parameter?

Thanks

I think it is limited to 300 becouse Thermistors cant work beyond 295 or so . But i dont know how to disable the limitation tho.

Thanks for the reply. I thought so!... I'm using thermocouples so just looking for a way to amend this limitation.

I just found this...

M143: Maximum hot-end temperature
Support FiveD Teacup Sprinter Marlin Repetier Smoothie RepRapFirmware BFB/RapMan Machinekit MakerBot grbl Redeem
.................No.............No............No...........No.............No.............No..............No...........................No...................No.........???..........No....???
Example: M143 S275
Set the maximum temperature of the hot-end to 275C
When temperature of the hot-end exceeds this value, take countermeasures, for instance an emergency stop. This is to prevent hot-end damage.

BUT It mentions that the command doesn't work with any firmware? Any input from anyone?

The 300 limit is hard coded in RepRapFirmware. I guess I could implement M143 if there is a demand for it.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Ultimately for the application of the RepRap I need to extend this temperature value as we are planning on using the system to dual extrude Polycarbonate and Polyetherimide.

As I had planned on doing further development anyway I was planning on updating the firmware myself, however you might remember from an earlier post that I am having problems getting the firmware to complie. This is still an outlying issue for me. Though I plan on starting again to see if using different software versions will work. If it was just me doing it for my application then I doubt I would go to the extent of implementing that GCode command. I would probably just adjust the firmware to be ~350-370 instead of 300.

It would be good if you could direct me to the necessary source file to be adjusted?

On the other hand I'm not sure what constitutes demand? If it was controllable I suppose it would allow safety concious people to have the ability to lower the limit if they are solely using lower temperature plastics. I suppose it would be easier for me if you could add this function. Solely because I can't seem to get the firmware to a stage where I have any control over it's development.

Either way can you let me know your preference? I'm going to need to develop the firmware anyways so in the mean time I'll keep looking at the compilation issue.

Thanks

Quote
derek5a
BUT It mentions that the command doesn't work with any firmware?

Perhaps, because it's an entirely pointless command. Temperature is controlled all the time, so before temperature gets even close, heaters are already turned off.

It needs quite some imagination to construct a case where such a temperature is reached and the firmware manages to avoid damage. If the firmware works, it doesn't get there and if the firmware doesn't work, it's unlikely it can heal its self. Instead of writing such code it's better to make sure the existing code is reliable.

---

Generation 7 Electronics	Teacup Firmware	RepRap DIY

Quote
Traumflug

Quote
derek5a
BUT It mentions that the command doesn't work with any firmware?

Perhaps, because it's an entirely pointless command. Temperature is controlled all the time, so before temperature gets even close, heaters are already turned off.

It needs quite some imagination to construct a case where such a temperature is reached and the firmware manages to avoid damage. If the firmware works, it doesn't get there and if the firmware doesn't work, it's unlikely it can heal its self. Instead of writing such code it's better to make sure the existing code is reliable.

My main business is safety critical software. Where the software is necessarily complex (as it is for a 3D printer), and the safety-critical functions (controlling temperature in this case) are coupled with other functions (which is the case here because both are done in the main loop, and other things may delay repetition of the main loop), it is good practice to have independent and much simpler code to monitor safety. So RepRapFirmware checks the thermistor readings against lower and upper limits every time it reads them. It reads one thermistor every other tick interrupt, so on a Duet that's each thermistor every 14ms. If the tick interrupt fails, the hardware watchdog will reset the machine, turning off all the heaters.

So in the context of RepRapFirmware, M143 is not a pointless command, because it would be used to set the safety limit in the config.g file. The current fixed limit of 300C is a reasonable limit for most users, but not for this particular one. The limit is also the maximum temperature that we allow the user to set. I don't know whether in Teacup you guard against a user sending M104 S2250 when he meant M104 S250, but in RepRapFirmware we do.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
Traumflug

Quote
derek5a
BUT It mentions that the command doesn't work with any firmware?

Perhaps, because it's an entirely pointless command. Temperature is controlled all the time, so before temperature gets even close, heaters are already turned off.

It needs quite some imagination to construct a case where such a temperature is reached and the firmware manages to avoid damage. If the firmware works, it doesn't get there and if the firmware doesn't work, it's unlikely it can heal its self. Instead of writing such code it's better to make sure the existing code is reliable.

It takes very little imagination, and in fact I have come close to disaster before DC42 implemented a max. temperature feature. I was printing ABS and trying to achieve maximum print speed. With a hotend temperature of 230 degrees, the extruder was slipping very occasionally at my print speed. So I decided to try increasing the temperature slightly to see whether it might improve matters by lowering the viscosity of the plastic. I put the cursor on the temperature window, hit "backspace" twice and then entered "40" to change the temperature to 240 degrees. One of my backspaces got missed, and the temperature was instead set to 2340 degrees. I was watching the printer rather than the web interface, and was only alerted to the issue when smoke started coming from the nozzle. IIRC it had reached about 450 degrees.

You could of course make the same typo when entering the temperature in your slicing software, or a corrupt G-code file transfer could have a similar effect.

Dave

Quote
derek5a
Ultimately for the application of the RepRap I need to extend this temperature value as we are planning on using the system to dual extrude Polycarbonate and Polyetherimide.

One workaround would be to set the thermistor/thermocouple parameters so that it deliberately under-reads. Then set your slicing software to extrude at the lower temperature that you know will result in the desired actual temperature.

Dave