RepRapPro Ormerod

Now up for sale, disributes by RS.

[www.reprappro.com]


Looks cute!



Sounds cool.

"IR probing for self-aligned printing – no bed adjustment required"

"New 32-bit Arduino-compatible Duet electronics enable control via a web-browser"


Rob

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2013 02:27PM by pocketmoon.

I'm interested to know who is supplying the RS filament:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/3d-printer-filament/7933525/?origin=PSF_482329|acc

Andy

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2013 04:39PM by ajayre.

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ajayre
I'm interested to know who is supplying the RS filament:

Andy

at £100 a kilo it sounds a bit rich for me!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2013 04:45PM by pocketmoon.

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pocketmoon

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ajayre
I'm interested to know who is supplying the RS filament:

Andy

at £100 a kilo it sounds a bit rich for me!

Yes, I am guessing it is Faberdashery.

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pocketmoon

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ajayre
I'm interested to know who is supplying the RS filament:

Andy

at £100 a kilo it sounds a bit rich for me!

Sounds like a typical RS markup

If they sell Ormerod for £500, then it should be a lot cheaper to self-source.

---

What is Open Source?
What is Open Source Hardware?
Open Source in a nutshell: the Four Freedoms
CC BY-NC is not an Open Source license

The controller, multi-extruder and calibration featuers look very interesting. I can't wait to dig into the details and see how those features can flow into the mainstream.

I see this is also supposed to have tricolour/triple head support which will be "coming soon". Hopefully this "coming soon", will be faster than for the RepRapPro Mendel where IIRC it was a year or more before it became available. They've done most of the important work since they got it working on their Mendel (and even included mounts on the Ormerod), so I would think so but I guess you never know with these things. Particularly with the extra effort they may need to put in working with RS.

Still at least they're active in the area. I'm surprised at how little support there seems to be for three or more heads among other RepRaps at the moment. It may be theoretically possible for some of them, but in most it doesn't seem to be something that's been done much or given much thought. I thought with the RepRapPro Mendel Tricolour having been launched 7-8 months or so ago, it would be something more mainstream by now. (At the very least some RepRapPro clones or mods from some of the more reputable community minded manufacturers.) Yet unless I'm missing something, all I found were 2 or 3 Chinese RepRapPro clones (only one seems cheaper than RepRapPro) and that Printrbot is currently testing two heads with the hope to move to three soon.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2013 10:47PM by Nil Einne.

can we still call this self-replicating ??

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smartfriendz
can we still call this self-replicating ??

Only partially, and as far I can tell replicatability percentage is regressing from reprappro's previous designs.
This is quite unavoidable when you aim for "classical" mass production.

On the other hand if they had gone a more innovative mass production way, like say "crowd printing" as Emmanuel Gilloz - and maybe others I did not hear about - experienced with, they would probably have had a real harder time convincing RS to sell that model.

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

The controller board looks interesting... anyone got more info about that except of the github repository and official announcement?
Hope they will also sell it individually.

That's outsourced to T3dP3d : [www.think3dprint3d.com]

Featurefull but a bit expensive IMO.

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

Quote
DeuxVis
That's outsourced to T3dP3d : [www.think3dprint3d.com]

Featurefull but a bit expensive IMO.

On the other hand, it sounds like they only need an expansion board for the two extra extruders (actually can support total of 8 axis controls or a total of 5 extruders with 3 axis although I presume 2 Melzi can as well). The expansion board seems to only need extra drivers and a few other stuff etc [blog.think3dprint3d.com] but doesn't need another microcontroller/CPU. I guess the DUET one is good enough already for all that. I presume it's a fair amount cheaper than the main board or even a Melzi, at most 40 pounds perhaps?

May still end up be more expensive than 2 Melzi [www.emakershop.com] £69.91 * 2 = £139.82 (I presume as a Dutch seller TheHawk's prices include VAT?) vs £119.50+~40=~£159.50 but not so bad considering the extra features IMO.

Of course if you only want a single extruder you only get the extra features and for quite a bit higher prices, but I'm hoping/assuming RepRapPro is quite interested in making the tricolour/extra 2 extrudes a key additional feature so they probably want to make the assumption many will go there when they did the design. Plus the single board with single microcontroller/CPU + expansion board connected by ribbon cable config is probably a fair amount easier to set up than the master + slave.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2013 11:10AM by Nil Einne.

The release of the free CAD program, DesignSpark Mechanical, makes MUCH MORE sense now.

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__________________________________________________________________________
"I like to be, what I like to see, in you and me.
I am the Stallion, Mang."

ISTAR Scope Club

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DeuxVis

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smartfriendz
can we still call this self-replicating ??

Only partially, and as far I can tell replicatability percentage is regressing from reprappro's previous designs.
This is quite unavoidable when you aim for "classical" mass production.

On the other hand if they had gone a more innovative mass production way, like say "crowd printing" as Emmanuel Gilloz - and maybe others I did not hear about - experienced with, they would probably have had a real harder time convincing RS to sell that model.

You're so right!

I was just a little embarassed, when it's the initiator of this all new industry ( personal 3d printers) talking so much about replicating, and see a "mass production ... product". But i understand very well the reprap spirit is totally incompatible with money making

I just laugh thinking about RS distributing a crowd printed reprap.. lol

Hmmm I may make this over the OB1.4... Need a BOM to see if its gonna work out a better choice!

In case people missed it, I asked about time frames for the three head option and buying direct from RepRapPro in the other thread [forums.reprap.org] and got an answer.

sorry wrong thread. content deleted.

Markus

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2013 03:33PM by markbee.

I just thought I'd address a couple of things in this thread, though I should point out that this is my opinion, not those of RepRapPro!

1. Is it self-replictating?
I think so. Sure, there are more laser cut parts, but the smaller ones could easily be printed instead. It just makes sense to use laser cut material for large, flat areas. There has always been a certain amount of lasercut parts, dating back to the Sells Mendel. You could change the design a little to remove them, or make them out of simple drilled material. The X axis is a bit trickier, but it could be replicated with hand tools. Other printer designs are certainly less self-replicatable, or indeed have no printed parts. As with all printers, there are still a few parts, such as the electronics, heatbed PCB, Z probe electronics, hot end etc, that are harder to replicate, but these could be swapped out for regular endstops, other electronics, etc; the designs have been open-sourced, and we prototyped the proximity sensor and ATX power distribution board in-house, using a CNC mill. Perhaps the most difficult thing, availability-wise, is the use of extrusion, but the stiffness this provides, the reduction in fasteners and other hardware, the ease of build, all far outweigh any difficulty sourcing it. 12mm bearings and smooth rod are the same price, or cheaper, than 8mm.

We've worked hard to bring something new to the community, another style of printer, and I feel it gives people more options; it's up to others to personalise the design, take it further, or in a different direction, if they wish - though we won't be standing still, either. That's the beauty of machine evolution. Though I think we're leaving it up to lovers of imperial dimensions to come up with their own version!

2. Crowd-sourcing printing
We've done this before, with our Mendel kits. It's tricky keeping control of quality, though. I had experience of this before RRP, with the Thames Valley RepRap User Group (TVRRUG), who have printed about 75 Prusa Mendel i2 variants. Again, quality across a number of machines, calibrated by different people, is the issue. The Ormerod parts do need a well-tuned printer for good fit. So, we're keeping production in house for the moment.

3. Multi head printing
The combination of the Duet and daughterboard offers 8 axes, and support for 5 extruders. Each extruder needs temperature control, which the Duet and daughterboard have. The pairing of two Melzis can only support three extruders, because, despite the extra axes, there are only two temperature inputs on each board. Though you could add an extra board to add more temperature circuits, I suppose. The Arduino processor on the second Melzi does virtually nothing - it just sends temperatures and receives step commands to and from the master. The nice thing is that it does it down just 4 wires connecting the master and slave; the Duet uses a parallel connector.

4. Duet firmware features being backward compatible
The Duet uses an entirely new firmware. I have no idea if this can be back-ported - I'm not a progammer. I think the proximity sensor could be written for Marlin; the bed compensation code is in Marlin already, as others have already shown.

Ian

I like your machine but,

Is it self-replictating?

I would say no, or less than your other machines. Also the new electronics make it even harder for most to make it from scratch.

Also its no a new design. Printrbot simple and the newest qubd machine cam first.

I would also assume most RS customers wouldnt like incomplete or wrong instructions. At least the maplin machine did that right and has a better design.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 01:46AM by thomasrobert.

Ian / droftarts : I appreciate the time you spend to answer questions here. Wish all vendors could be doing the same !

On a side note, I had no idea at first you were working in relation with reprappro. In the interest of full disclosure, may I suggest you to include that information in your forum signature ?

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

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DeuxVis
Ian / droftarts : I appreciate the time you spend to answer questions here. Wish all vendors could be doing the same !

On a side note, I had no idea at first you were working in relation with reprappro. In the interest of full disclosure, may I suggest you to include that information in your forum signature ?

Most posts I've seen from droftarts/Ian recently have actually said "RepRapPro tech support" at the end after Ian, so maybe he?'s started doing so now. Although most of those have been tech support related stuff maybe he only does it there. (It wasn't mentioned here but that may have been a mistake and in any case, it was clear from the post.) I do agree adding it to the signature so it's never missed (well provided you don't forget to add your signature) may be best.

@DeuxVis - I was expressing my own opinion, not that of RepRapPro, so I left off the usual signature. I'm not a spokesman for the company, and I'm not trying to sell product. If I put my work signature on a post that expresses my opinion, it qualifies it as at least semi-official, which I'd prefer to avoid. I appreciate I post from a couple of different accounts, and generally I just offer support advice, and put the signature on so people know they can trust what I say, but does that mean I can't have my own opinion any more? I suppose it's a fine line.

Ian
(no sig as expressing personal opinion)

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droftarts
@DeuxVis - I was expressing my own opinion, not that of RepRapPro, so I left off the usual signature. I'm not a spokesman for the company, and I'm not trying to sell product. If I put my work signature on a post that expresses my opinion, it qualifies it as at least semi-official, which I'd prefer to avoid. I appreciate I post from a couple of different accounts, and generally I just offer support advice, and put the signature on so people know they can trust what I say, but does that mean I can't have my own opinion any more? I suppose it's a fine line.

I don't think there's anything wrong with expressing a personal opinion but when you work for a company, you obviously have a strong COI. This doesn't mean you're always going to agree with what your company does or defend it or recommend it to the detriment of others but it does mean it's rather difficult to be unbiased. Of course we all have our biases for various reasons but the potential bias coming from having such a strong COI as working for a company who's products and competitors* you are discussing, is generally taken as the sort of thing which should be declared as part of good forum etiquette (or in many other area of life). That way people can take this information on board when reading your post.

I think most here understand the need for clarity between the cases when you're partially representing the company you work for like when offering support, and for cases when you're not representing them at all, but instead simply mentioning your own views.

The way people often deal with the later is by including something like: "Although I work for company X, my views are my own" in their signature. Beyond being good forum etiquette, it's also often a good idea for your employer as otherwise people know who you work for could mistakingly think you are representing them when you are not. Then you can exclude this and instead sign off as RepRap tech support as you do now in cases where you're doing that. If you want a generic signature to include in all messages you can tailor it in some way to cover both. (The alternative is to have two accounts presuming this is allowed under forum policy.)

*Even thought we're generally discussing open source products, stuff produced by others in the open source movement are in some way still ultimately competing products.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2013 11:54PM by Nil Einne.

I was not suggesting you to put "I talk for reprappro" in your sig, rather something like "In the name of full disclosure, let me mention I'm employed by reprappro" - or whatever actual relation you have with that company.

Using 2 different accounts is good for differentiating support mode from personal opinion and talk - it's still good IMO to publicly "disclose" your link in both situations, but that's totally up to you in the end.

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

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DeuxVis
Using 2 different accounts is good for differentiating support mode from personal opinion and talk

But according Rules and Guidelines its forbidden. So wheres the truth then?

@miso: Yes, both accounts should be banned immediately. It would certainly save the amount of time I spend doing support!

Ian
Proudly RepRapPro tech support

@DeuxVis - he did start that post by saying

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droftarts
I just thought I'd address a couple of things in this thread, though I should point out that this is my opinion, not those of RepRapPro!

which means to me that at least he thought that people might realise he worked for RepRapPro, and wanted to distance his opinion from that organisation while recognising a link to it, and would would warn people who didn't know he was associated with RepRapPro that in fact... he was!

There may be better ways to point this stuff out, but he did do his best in my opinion

Ray

@Miso : The truth is in the eye of the reader.

If I see someone sneakily using multiple accounts, I'll watch those - they might be up to no good.
OTOH If it's announced and it is motivated, I see no reason to do anything.
IMO the moderators must do the minimum and only act when there is a nuisance - I won't be enforcing rules for the beauty of it.

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.

Quote
DeuxVis
OTOH If it's announced and it is motivated, I see no reason to do anything.

I wasn't calling for you to do, I was merely pointing out the discrepancy. Although I think, that if such discrepancies exist between admins behavior and aforementioned document, than such document is worse than none.

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rayhicks
@DeuxVis - he did start that post by saying

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droftarts
I just thought I'd address a couple of things in this thread, though I should point out that this is my opinion, not those of RepRapPro!

which means to me that at least he thought that people might realise he worked for RepRapPro, and wanted to distance his opinion from that organisation while recognising a link to it, and would would warn people who didn't know he was associated with RepRapPro that in fact... he was!

There may be better ways to point this stuff out, but he did do his best in my opinion

Maybe I misunderstood but I don't know if anyone was really suggesting the problem was with what droftarts/Ian did in this thread. The issue is that DeuxVis and possibly others never realised before that droftarts worked for RepRapPro because it's not always mentioned in the post he makes (which as has been said is ultimately up to him but there are good reasons why many feel it's a good idea). The fact that droftarts mentioned it here is probably what started the whole thing as people realised from what was said here that he works for RepRapPro.

Anyway to get this thread back on topic, what are people's early thoughts about the Ormerod vs other options in terms of design and considering the cost. I'm particularly think of aspects other than reproducibility. Stuff such as ease of assembly, risk of stuff going wrong and how easy it may be to diagnose or fix, default capabilities, upgradibility (beyond the planned 3 extruder option). It does seem to me it would be better in at least the first 2 compared to the Mendel Mono/Tricolour (obvious comparison as RRP's most similar other printer) or other Mendels. On the other hand there are other stuff which share some characteristics which have been mentioned, I admit I don't know that much about these although some of them seem a bit expensive compared to the Ormerod.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2013 12:47PM by Nil Einne.