PLA filament question

I quite like the small reel of filament to the side if the Duet. But I don't like the price of these reels from RS.
So I buy larger reels (lately 2.3kg reels from RepRapKit) that I then wound on the small reels. However I get get a lot of residual springiness in the filament as it was wound around a much larger diameter.

My thought would be to "bake" my newly wound small reel to relieve the tension in the filament. I obviously need to make sure it does not all stick together so need to apply enough heat to relieve but not too much as to make it sticky. Any thoughts on this idea? What would be a suitable temperature to achieve relief? It could be placed in an oven at low enough temperature for 10min for example?

@arnaud31,

Interesting thoughts on heat soaking for this, but it may make it form a tighter loop, my RS supplied filaments seem to want to straighten themselves which I thought was a desirable attribute?

My thoughts on heat soaking in the past were how much moisture is in the PLA and whether this was a good or bad thing in relation to print quality and whether it is removed in some way at the extrude nozzle due to the temperature, or causes some deterioration in the printed filament?

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Ormerod #007 (shaken but not stirred!)

@arnaud31

Yeah, I never really liked the price that RS sells the filaments, they even whack on a fair amount on top of what they really cost, I checked the prices from Filament Print, so I probably won't buy any more filament from RS due to the price.
But the prices from RRK for the 2.3Kg spools seems very good, not sure on how much their delivery costs are, may be a lot due to the weight, but either way I like their prices

As for warming it up first, not too sure about that due to the filament may get to warm and stretch causing issues.

Paul

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RS Ormerod No 436

I tried heat soaking a spool of filament in a fan oven, as it seemed to have absorbed a lot of moisture when printed. I'd found some instructions on the forum that suggested an hour at 40C would be good. Unfortunately, a fan oven is NOT accurate at low temperatures, and it probably heated it at about 80C - I ended up with a lot of plastic spaghetti - al dente! It took a long time for the smell of burning plastic to leave the cooker during normal (cooking) operation...

I managed to salvage some of it, but it always printed very brittle after that.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

There's a list of filament suppliers here: [www.reprap.org]

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

I got this sample set from Ooznest
[ooznest.co.uk]
Not yet tried (as printer not finished yet), but dimensions are good and the price for 1Kg spools isn't bad.

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Ormerod #17

Since the spool in my kit ran out, I've tried PLA filament from two different suppliers. The JET filament bought via Amazon (£20-99/kg) arrived in a thick polythene bag with a sachet of silica gel inside, but AFAIR the bag was not sealed. I managed a few small prints with it, but after that I just couldn't get it to stick to the bed well enough. The filament from [stores.ebay.co.uk] (£18-99/kg) was packed in heat-sealed thick polythene, again with a silica gel sachet, and has worked perfectly so far.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

@Ian

Oooh nice long list, will probably check them out later on, I still have over half of the supplied spool and also a brand new spool, so I won't need some for a little while.
But its always nice to have options where to buy more though

Paul

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RS Ormerod No 436

Quote
reprappro
spaghetti - al dente!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

I'm rolling with laughter ... thank you .... thank you...

for the spaghetti I invite you to my house! the real ones .....! (Al dente!)
extra virgin olive oil cold pressed, hot pasta extruded through bronze, grana padano cheese, tomatoes doc .... maybe we celebrate with "red Lambrusco"

however never touch the plastic (all) even with your hands, if I could put it in a clean white room.
To power the printer just a roll holder. Place it farther away, do not make sudden changes in temperature ....
In industrial printing white cotton gloves...

Dario

White gloves......
Hold the filament dry, poorly ventilated, at the same temperature where printed.
Do not create changes in temperature ....
This applies to all plastics transfer techniques.
Only the acetal must have been heated, but in our case just in the extruder.


Already find a woman who supports me is not easy ... if I put the plastic in the oven I'm done!

Dario

Thanks guys for all your replies and for the various alternative suppliers.
The RRK 2.3kg filament quality seems good enough as far as I can tell (done a 15hr print with it) but if I can get it even cheaper (as per the ebay link above) I am all in.
It probably would be a good idea to somehow keep track of what we all think of the filament suppliers we are using...

On the subject of the wife's tolerance to 3D printing, I too am struggling, especially as she can't see the point (despite that all I print is for work and pretty obvious as to how powerful it is to hold a design in your hands rather than look at a screen or paper print). She also thinks it is too noisy. I did however score some points when I printed a bunk bed for my daughter's Sylvanian family...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2014 04:37PM by arnaud31.

Quote
arnauld31
I did however score some points when I printed a bunk bed for my daughter's Sylvanian family...

Lol, I need to try that to get my people on board - the test pieces and work pieces just don't cut it do they?

I purchased some off ebay, big supplier, winbocn was the seller. Very happy, got both abs and pla. Now i noticed the PLA was vac sealed and had a moisture thingy inside while the ABS was just packaged normally. So I guess while not in use, leave the PLA sealed.

How do I store it while not using it once open?

Dieter

Ormerod #257

Quote
dieterzar
I purchased some off ebay, big supplier, winbocn was the seller. Very happy, got both abs and pla. Now i noticed the PLA was vac sealed and had a moisture thingy inside while the ABS was just packaged normally. So I guess while not in use, leave the PLA sealed.

How do I store it while not using it once open?

I was wondering that too. A food dehydrator appears to be one suggestion. This is basically a chamber kept at 54C, with a fan to slowly pass air through it in order to remove the moist air.

A simpler alternative would be to get some large self-seal polythene bags and put the spool in one of them together with the silica gel sachet. According to Wikipedia, you can revive the silica gel by baking it at 120C for two hours.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I believe that a handful of rice grains will do as well as the silica gel.
Instead of refresh, just use them in cooking!

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Ormerod #17

Could you not just print a different reel holder to hold your larger reels?

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Ormerod 313

I got 2 1KG reels from Ebay Seller [www.ebay.co.uk]
Came in a sealed (looked like vac pack) plastic bag with silaca jel in it.
So far have only used the RED but it printed very well, maybe even better than the orig one that came with my printer
and it is also a very close colour match to the Red parts of the RS printer.

Chris

I have not taken that great a care of my PLA so far. It is left wherever, in rather high humidity places and far from dust free.
I do not sufficient experience to tell how much it affects the qualit of the prints and would appreciate some feedback from you guys who have experienced problems with dust/moisture.
I do however have a vacuum pump so could just keep PLA is vacuum bags, which would at the same time get ride of moisture already there.

I would add that I print rather large parts (in excess of 10-15hrs print per part at fill factors of 0.3) so imperfection are not so obvious to spot as it would be if I was printing small parts. That may be why I get away with it at the moment.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2014 06:07AM by arnaud31.

I have not experienced dirt problems myself yet, but have seen a shocking picture of the problem,
Richrap (maker of an awesome rostock printer) has some pictures on his blog of his clever filter!

Search 'sponge' on his blog: [richrap.blogspot.nl]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2014 07:05AM by 3D-ES.

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RS-Online Ormerod #263, Kossel mini with Minitronics, Prusa i3 MK2

Update on the 2.3kg reels from RepRapKit.

I have now printed 30hrs worth with both black and green filaments from this supplier and am actually disappointed with the quality. The finish is not has nice as with the RS filaments, the gauge of the filament is very approximate, anything from 1.68 to 1.75 depending on where you are within the reel. I will use those reels for draft printing but would not recommend it. The quality of the surface finish is a little uneven and the depth of the colours is not very good so all in it doesn't look right. Structurally it seems as good as anything else. I will experiment with various settings (temperature and filament diameter) and report back again.

If chriscain is right and the filament from his ebay link is a good if not better than the RS supply then it is good news. Will be trying it out.

As a freelance photographer, I just keep my spare rolls of filaments in electric dry cabinet which supposed to be used for camera equipments. I can get USD80 for a 26 liter dry cabinet locally, and electric consumption just merely 5 watts.

@arnaud31 Looking at the filamentprint website who RS have selected for their PLA supplier, they state:

Quote

A special modified PLA that produces very high quality models. Most manufactures just produce raw PLA, we have modified ours to produce outstanding results.
.....offer the highest quality, stable colour and toleranced PLA and ABS

This may be a marketing statement, but appears to be supported by your findings so far.

My requirements for printing are high quality (for prototype designs) over high volumes so I think I'll stick with the RS supplied filament as I'm very happy with it.

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Ormerod #007 (shaken but not stirred!)

Quote
arnaud31
If chriscain is right and the filament from his ebay link is a good if not better than the RS supply then it is good news. Will be trying it out.

Looks like the supplier Chris is using is the same one I referred to in [forums.reprap.org] as supplying well-packaged filament that has worked well for me so far. I spoke to this supplier on the phone and he seemed to know what he was talking about.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

dc42: if anything this supplier seems indeed a bit more aware, they at least bother suggesting some temperatures for each colors. I have ordered some to be delivered today so will report later.

threth: I too have a requirement for high quality as I also print prototypes of my design, unfortunately those parts are also very large in size (taking anything from 7hrs to 39hrs so far to print even at low infill densities) so I am going through a lot of filament very quickly. I have already been through 3 RS reels that I had bought at the same time as the printer mid-december, I will let you know what I think of the filament I am receiving today as it is a lot cheaper than RS (£20/kg delivered instead of £30+Vat/300g + delivery);

There is unfortunately IP issues with sharing photos of what I am printing, I will see what I can do because I think would motivate those struggling to put the printer together. I am simply amazed at what comes out the printer...