Blue Tape

I saw a printer today that had this Blue Tape on top of the Kapton Tape.

I seems to help a lot for stickiness and might be also good for the Ormerod, has anyone tested yet?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2014 12:15PM by adsoftware.

Don't believe their hype. Blue tape is okay (it's basically masking tape with a plastic coating, I think), but you tend to see it used on printers that don't have a heated bed. I still haven't found anything better than Kapton for PLA, that is as low maintenance, long life, and sticks so well. But, by all means, try it!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

I have tried it. Plastic sticks to it but the bottom, of print, deformed a bit. OK for quick prints where you don't really care about perfect quality.

Since my printer is working hard and I have been playing with slic3r settings, I started researching the net a bit on the bed prep for printing. Blue tape seams good if you dont have a heat bed. Another thread I came upon had guys talking about printing directly on the glass by bringing the bed temp up to 70'C. All PLA related.

Seeing I seem to have lifty corners on PLA, I tried a few things... cleaning the kapton tape after each print works.

Then I came by a thread where wiping down the kapton tape with acetone after each print helped a lot. I gave this a try and boy does it work! Also made the first few layers at 0.25mm, stuck so well with no lift that afterwards I really needed to pull on the parts to get them off.

So wiping down the bed with acetone before each print works very very well and no more curely corners with PLA!

Dieter

#257

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droftarts
....I still haven't found anything better than Kapton for PLA, that is as low maintenance, long life, and sticks so well. But, by all means, try it!
Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Agreed, Kapton tape works very well for me

whilst searching for a wider format of the tape I found this sites info confusing - Kopton tape, is there such a thing?

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Print Bed Polyamide (Kopton) Tape (200mm wide, 180C, 33m roll)

This tape is very wide and is intended for use on heated beds. One strip will be sufficient to cover the whole bed for most printers (All 'normal' sized RepRaps, including Mendel, Huxley, Mendel90 'mendel', etc).

ABS will print well on to this tape. Not suitable for use with PLA.

[reprapkit.com]

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droftarts
Don't believe their hype. Blue tape is okay (it's basically masking tape with a plastic coating, I think), but you tend to see it used on printers that don't have a heated bed. I still haven't found anything better than Kapton for PLA, that is as low maintenance, long life, and sticks so well. But, by all means, try it!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

agree totally, Kapton work amazingly and last very long unless you damage it yourself with a tool. I clean it every print with acetone (you can get it from your Tesco/Sainsbury equivalent in france, but don't know where to get some in UK). Acetone will degrease the plate very well, to the point that it makes it difficult to remove the parts so be gentle. Acetone dissolves PLA too, occasionally I will get a very thin layer of PLA left on bed (from the skirt) and wiping it with acetone dissolves it. I can't see blue tape being practical, I haven't tried but would be prepared to bet it rips every other prints. I would also assume to leave a rought texture under the print rather than a lovely polish.

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ormerod168

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droftarts
....I still haven't found anything better than Kapton for PLA, that is as low maintenance, long life, and sticks so well. But, by all means, try it!
Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Agreed, Kapton tape works very well for me

whilst searching for a wider format of the tape I found this sites info confusing - Kopton tape, is there such a thing?

Quote

Print Bed Polyamide (Kopton) Tape (200mm wide, 180C, 33m roll)

This tape is very wide and is intended for use on heated beds. One strip will be sufficient to cover the whole bed for most printers (All 'normal' sized RepRaps, including Mendel, Huxley, Mendel90 'mendel', etc).

ABS will print well on to this tape. Not suitable for use with PLA.

[reprapkit.com]

if it looks like Kapton and smells like Kapton, it usually is. Incidently I used to work in the space industry and Kapton was the only tape we used on spacecraft. It does not leave residues and withstand vacuum and radiations.

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arnaud31
if it looks like Kapton and smells like Kapton, it usually is. Incidently I used to work in the space industry and Kapton was the only tape we used on spacecraft. It does not leave residues and withstand vacuum and radiations.

Thank you, it sure smells like Kapton, spoilchokker alles kaput gewesen?, never mind, I'll take the chance and place an order

Erik

I find it very difficult to apply the Kapton tape (partly because my eyesight is not as good as when I was younger). I always get gaps, or overlaps, or bubbles. On occasion I've started a print with the head to low, and this always catches and lifts the edges of the tape. So even when I have managed to apply the Kapton well, it hasn't lasted long.

Currently I'm using Marley KS10 pipe solvent adhesive instead. The PLA sticks to this extremely well, better than the adhesive sticks to the glass. So after I remove the print I always have to patch up the bed. But this is quick and easy.

I've just had some extra pieces of glass cut so that I can try some other techniques:

1. 50mm wide Kapton applied via the wet method.

2. KS10 applied to frosted glass (maybe it will stick better).

3. Blue tape

4. Direct on glass or on frosted glass. I tried direct on glass once without success, however I only heated the glass to 60C, and I cleaned it with acetone instead of the hot vinegar that someone recommended.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I'd give a thumbs up to Kapton 50mm wet method.

50mm makes it quicker with less joints than the supplied 25mm. I did contemplate getting 100 or 200mm but they start getting expensive and a 50mm roll will do a lot of beds.

Wet method makes all the difference; allowing all the time to slide tape around to get perfect butt joints. Good to have the soapy water in a spray bottle to make it easier if you need to put more on.

I did a successful print direct on glass this evening. Based on the recommendations in another post to this forum (sorry, I can't remember who I have to thank for this), I first cleaned the glass with acetone to remove finger marks, then heated the bed to 80C, then wiped it with kitchen towel moistened in vinegar, then dried it with kitchen towel. The print stuck to the glass well, but on cooling to 35C it almost fell off. If this is repeatable, I can't see any reason to print on anything else. I shall try reducing the bed temperature somewhat after the first layer.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

was it Ormerod187? [forums.reprap.org], or Aggie and Kim?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2014 06:22PM by rayhicks.

Yes, it was. Thanks, Ormerod187!

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

The risk, directly on glass, is damaging the nozzle if the z starts too low. The glass is harder than stainless whereas the kapton is a lot softer. So a z mistake on kapton will be more forgiving, in the long run, than glass.

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victors
The risk, directly on glass, is damaging the nozzle if the z starts too low. The glass is harder than stainless whereas the kapton is a lot softer. So a z mistake on kapton will be more forgiving, in the long run, than glass.

That is a good point. Even though kapton tape (inc. adhesive) is less than 0.1mm thick, it gives you a buffer (the extruder carrier can pivot upwards too).
The bottom line is that there is no need to mess about with all sorts of concoctions, re-applying said concoctions between prints and using fancy cleaning products.
There is enough Kapton supplied with the Ormerod to last you a lifetime. Get a bottle of Acetone and crack on.
I seriously doubt that people printing around the clock (that includes me) can be bothered with reapplying cement or patching blue tape, warming vinegar up etc. Not to mention the mess it probably leaves at the bottom of your print. I have a turn around of 10-20s between prints. Life is too short...

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arnaud31
I seriously doubt that people printing around the clock (that includes me) can be bothered with reapplying cement or patching blue tape, warming vinegar up etc.

I don't warm up the vinegar. I warm up the bed, wipe it with a paper towel moistened with cold vinegar, and start printing.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

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Ormerod168
Quote
arnaud31
if it looks like Kapton and smells like Kapton, it usually is. Incidently I used to work in the space industry and Kapton was the only tape we used on spacecraft. It does not leave residues and withstand vacuum and radiations.


Thank you, it sure smells like Kapton, spoilchokker alles kaput gewesen?, never mind, I'll take the chance and place an order

I found a supplier of 200mm wide Koptan tape (yes, that’s the spelling - its polyamide by another name) through Amazon, it came airmail from China in 4 days and was cheaper by far than many other suppliers were. I floated it onto the plate using an anti-bacterial surface spray as a surface tension breaker and a credit card squeegee, and now have a bed plate without bubbles or tape lines. I have no connection with supplier at Amazon product link
Bed plate looks really neat. All done in one pass! I clean with Acetone and then with Meths, no adhesion problems at 65^oC bed with PLA.



Steve

I rather assume all the various miss-spellings of Kapton are just the usual Chinese approach to selling something as a brand name without infringing the trademarks of the big boys.

Kapton is a DuPont registered trademark for their polyimide film products.

I've also got a roll of 200mm wide 'Koptan', sourced from the usual 'auction' site. It is noticeably more stretchy than the 'real thing', which I regularly use for work, but seems to work perfectly well for me, and it's a *lot* cheaper!

Dave

hihihihi I didn't know I'd posted on this.........lol

I print on freshly WASHED glass.... Really rub that washing up liquid in, followed by Hot Water rinse.
Then dry with CLEAN paper towel..... and while the glass is warming up give it a final polish with Vinager.
Done like this normaly I can get away with just using Vinager between prints the next couple of goes.

For larger items I normaly add a 10mm brim which both helps it stick as well as acts like a blanket to reduce warping by holding
the heat in. And the Gloss finish the glass gives to the base is amazing.

Quite often I find the print is stuck hard and fast to the glass, so put the glass/print under the cold tap, and a few moments later it
rinses off without any effort. The Brim I peel away with my finger nail, then file to take the sharp edge away.

HotHead height I find is a real killer. If the height is to high off the glass the plastic won't stick.
If I have trouble with the start of a print (not often) I recalibrate the HotEnd height to reduce the distance by 0.1-0.2mm
But normal the standard IR Probe does it ok on my RED glass.....

Try it. You won't go back to tape after you get it right...

I normaly use 60'-65' for the Bed now, and 190' for the HotEnd....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 04:06PM by KimBrown.

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

oops! I need to edit my signature.
Done....

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

That koptan film looks superb to me. What kind of spray did you use?
I guess the delivery method in your review is a typo: delivered by email from China in just 4 days
Now the chinese often manage to surprise me, but an attachment this big would be first

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onno
That koptan film looks superb to me. What kind of spray did you use?
I guess the delivery method in your review is a typo: delivered by email from China in just 4 days
Now the chinese often manage to surprise me, but an attachment this big would be first

I had to reread the original because I thought I'd read Polymath's "email" as "airmail", but I think you did the opposite I guess the days aren't far off when you could deliver an stl or gcode via email and someone would end up with a piece of shaped plastic that they wanted though ( oh wait! we're there)

The main reason for responding though is the sanitary hand sprays in the UK tend to be isopropanol-based - I've tried isopropanol for wet kapton application and it was fine (but he may have meant a detergent/water based antibacterial surface cleaner...)

Ray

I tried ordering this, but couldn't, since it's only shipped to the UK. I cannot find an email address to ask the seller if he can adjust the offer for shipping to the Netherlands, but will take a closer look and/or google later today.

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Polymath

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Ormerod168
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arnaud31
if it looks like Kapton and smells like Kapton, it usually is. Incidently I used to work in the space industry and Kapton was the only tape we used on spacecraft. It does not leave residues and withstand vacuum and radiations.


Thank you, it sure smells like Kapton, spoilchokker alles kaput gewesen?, never mind, I'll take the chance and place an order

I found a supplier of 200mm wide Koptan tape (yes, that’s the spelling - its polyamide by another name) through Amazon, it came airmail from China in 4 days and was cheaper by far than many other suppliers were. I floated it onto the plate using an anti-bacterial surface spray as a surface tension breaker and a credit card squeegee, and now have a bed plate without bubbles or tape lines. I have no connection with supplier at Amazon product link
Bed plate looks really neat. All done in one pass! I clean with Acetone and then with Meths, no adhesion problems at 65^oC bed with PLA.

[attachment 28218 Koptan.jpg]

Steve

I have also found a supplier of this and I just use some water to spray on before I apply the tape it is excellent.
[www.3dprima.com]

/Joar

Just to confirm, I used a watered down antibacterial hard surface cleanser (it comes in spray bottle so just waited until 50ml left in a 500ml bottle then topped up with tap water). There's just enough of the detergency in this solution to ensure low surface tension, i.e. it acts as a wetting agent on the glass (which should be spotlessly clean anyway). I work on an old, well-washed glasscloth with the glass wetted and then the tape pulled oversize off the reel and dropped on in one go. Use a credit card to squeegee the excess fluid out towards the edges and when all smooth leave it alone to dry. Only trim the tape, which is tough, after it has all dried with a razor blade or scalpel.

And it was airmail.....

Steve

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Steve - RS Ormerod - 7th Feb 2014
"... the clouds looked as if they had heard about snow and were considering the idea." - (Terry Prachett, The Light Fantastic)

One succesful print is not enough to declare it a success, but I just started printing on a sheet of 3mm carbon, and it turns out to work great. I was inspired to try it out by the german reprap site, and I happened to have a piece lying around that was just big enough for this. For heating parameters I used the same as always (65/60 for PLA), and the print comes out very nicely.

Does the carbon have a surface similar to ground glass?

That might be the secret, a surface that offers a little grip.?

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Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

The carbon is super smooth, which in turn results in prints without the ribs from the gaps between the strips of tape. Not sure if the smoothness is part of 'the secret' but the stiffness of the carbon also helps because there's hardly any warping of the bed itself.

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onno
The carbon is super smooth, which in turn results in prints without the ribs from the gaps between the strips of tape. Not sure if the smoothness is part of 'the secret' but the stiffness of the carbon also helps because there's hardly any warping of the bed itself.

When printing directly on glass, the smoothness is certainly part of the secret, because the print appears to be held on by suction.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

A quick tip for easier trimming when the tape has adhered properly is to run round the edge with an old small toothed file. Much quicker, easier and safer than using razor blades or scalpals.