Big Blue 360

NOW I'M EXCITED!!!!!

Big Blue is currently under test with it's cooling nozzle set glued on.......


I knew Big Blue could do 60mm bridges 'inline' with X-axis, but it couldn't manage those sort of lengths on the Y-axis....
So I've been working on the cooling nozzles to make Big Blue work in 360'.

DONE!

The test rig is currently printing PERFECT 60mm AND 80mm bridges in BOTH directions.
That's 60 & 80mm spans NOT including the 4mm support pillars.

The test rig consists of Big Blue Twin Fan for DC42's probes, and the nozzle kit glued on using 5 minute apoxy glue.

Here's the results:-


I'm hoping to release two sets of STLs hopefully tomorrow, if not over the weekend.
1) set of Nozzles for people who already have Big Blue and don't mind filing and glueing the nozzles on.
2) Big Blue for DC42's probes complete with the nozzles fitted in the STL file.

If you wish to test your own Fan-Duct, I've attached the Bridging test STL.

Kim

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Wowwww Kim!!!!

That is awsome! Congrats!

Amazing!

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Ormerod #007 (shaken but not stirred!)

I want the Big Blue 360.....

Dario

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Ormerod 187
Firmware Electronics: Duet 0.6
Firmware Version:1.18.1 (2017-04-07)
Web Interface Version:1.15a
Slic3r 1.2.9a and Simplify3D 4.0.0
[www.dropbox.com]

The prints look amazing.

May I ask, why is your hotbed black? What's under there?

I couldn't get on the Forum yesterday, but there is a set of glue on nozzles for Big Blue on ThingiVerse now.
Nozzles
Hopefully over the weekend I'll get time to add the nozzles in to the Blue Blue design.

Kim..

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Looking forward to trying that out.
Thanks Kim

Ok Good News, Big Blue is about to be born.... I know there are a few of you out there that have been waiting for it to arrive, so any time now I'll have it
up on thingiverse... (Just give me time to write the blurb....
I've had MAJOR problems getting Big Blue to this stage mainly due to Bad Luck I guess.
Dodgy Blue Filament that wouldn't stick to anything, Firmware problems with the Printer, vibration from my engines knocking the Bed out of level daily, Slic3r not behaiving.... I've had it all and been working at the same time.... Anyway the test piece (Big Blue 360 No.1) has nearly finished printing now, and I've stripped down the drawing to address a couple of problems that came to light. 1) There's a large Chamfer to allow extra clearance to DC43's connectors.... On the test piece it is so thin that there are holes in it.....I've addressed this in the released design... 2) The top of the Chamfer (corner/cone...you'll see what I mean) was curling up due to heat distortion with the amount of plastic there is in the area....... I've addressed this by adding a pillar to be removed after printing... My print head was clattering away like made, and I don't want yours to... When you Slice it with Slic3r you will see there are 10 errors... Ignor this... The Fan-Duct hasn't erros on it's own, the supports at the bottom haven't got errors, but put the two together, and Slic3r finds some....?????? I used Slic3r 1.0.0.0 to slice it.

Use a 10mm BRIM when printing Big Blue.... She's tall enough to take two fans.... If she was any taller I'd take her out for dinner....

Please give me feed back as to how you get on with fettling it, and anything else that might need addressing as the release your getting now I won't have time to print. If your Big Blue gets distorted due to not having a Fan-Duct that can cope with 360' cooling, then don't dispair... Use the one you've just printed to print a better one....

I've done my best to make this as painless as possible to get up and running. The two fans fit one on top of the other. Use small rubber 'O'rings on the screws to rubber mount the fans, as it will reduce the noise a great deal. The idea of the fans being in tandom, is that one fan will give you X amount of air flow/pressure.... One on top of the other will give you X+1/2X to X+3/4X. Here in engine room I have a number of pumps that use this principal to up the pressure and flow. Remember you can control the air flow via the Exhaust pipe on the side, by using tape or the metering plates. There is NO BackWash from this Fan-Duct.... Any BackWash goes UP away from the print..... The air that comes out of the nozzles is warmed slightly, as it has to go past the Heat Sink, so isn't going to chill you print, but will cool that hot filament. For Bridging, remember that the cooler you can have the filament the better, but you need to have it hot enough to bond to the filament below. The first pass on the Bridge will start off straight, but when the second pass comes along except the first layer to bow slightly, as the heat in the plastic on top nedds to soften it, and melt in to it. There's nothing that you can do about it other than to apply the full cooling by blanking the exhaust pipe.

To fit Big Blue, you will need to rotate the Heater Block by 90' so the wire go AWAY from the X-carriage... Big Blue Complete has extra clearance in the Heater Block area.

Enjoy
Kim..

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Here's how to mount Big Blue 360 by rotating the heater through 90'

(Note standard probe mount temporarily to the DC42 probe mount).
I will modify the Probe Mount to accept either DC42's probe or the standard probe later today.

Here's Big Blue 360 fitted in place on the Ormerod.
(Another mod will be to strengthen around the Heat Sink area).

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Going to try it now...

Quote
KimBrown
Please give me feed back as to how you get on with fettling it, and anything else that might need addressing as the release your getting now I won't have time to print.

I printed the version before this (and just did the extra nozzles separately), but I absolutely had to have Slic3r add support structures in or there was no way I was going to get a usable part. Basically all horizontal surfaces would fall down and make a big mess. And then, removing all the support material inside the fan duct was very tricky to do without damaging the part. The nozzles (the shorter ones on the previous version) did come apart, but were easily glued back on.

For all of us who cannot yet make crazy long bridges, I think printability could be improved by cutting it up into smaller pieces to print, and then gluing those together. I've been gluing PLA and ABS with regular cyanoacrylate (super glue), and it is easy to get a really strong bond. I guess I would try something like making the "nozzle part" as one piece, the area around the heatsink as one, and the "chimney" as one or two parts. That, together with rotating some pieces for printing should reduce the amount of overhang, and still leave pretty large areas for gluing things together. I think the "assembly time" for that would still be way less than the time required to clean out support material, not to mention the time and plastic saved on not printing the support stuff. Also, the sensor board mount could very well be a separate piece since it would be super easy to glue on, but not everyone has that sensor board.

Another thought I had when I saw the whole thing printed is, why such a tall "chimney"? If it's all covered anyway, it's just a slight waste of material printing the whole thing. However, if you're letting some air out at the top, that hot air would be right by the fan inlet, some of it probably getting sucked down again making the cooling slightly less efficient. Having the exhaust port just a little bit further down (by just cutting some of it off) should eliminate that. Probably not a big deal in practice though, mostly a "theoretical concern".

Finally, just adding a couple more of those little loops in various locations for attaching cables and whatnot would probably be useful (though I haven't mounted mine to the actual hotend yet).

Anyway, I have a usable BigBlue now and it's looking good, will be exciting to see what it can do.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2014 05:53AM by jstck.

As I write this, I have come to the section where "you absolutely have to have support structures". I... don't... I'll keep an eye on it and the moment it falls apart I'll start over. Oh well...
You know... Bridging, as impressive it might be, I really wouldn't mind have a print made up from smaller pieces that are either clipped or screwed on. It's really alright with me.

Edit: After completing the first "floor" I think I'm going to continue. It didn't fall apart. I'm currently using iamburnys fan duct.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2014 06:01AM by michaelljunggren.

michaelljunggren, Where are you having problems?

I'm guessing it's the Heat Sink Chamber? Let me know ASAP and I'll add some thin snapable supports like the base....

It'll only take me a minute to add.... I will be online All Day and most of the evening to address any concerns.
A screw on mounting for the Original Probe to fit it to the DC42 mount will be online in a few minutes.

I've just added some strengtheners to the STL to avoid breakages by over tightening the mounting screws. (Ask me how I know )

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2014 06:35AM by KimBrown.

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Quote
KimBrown
michaelljunggren, Where are you having problems?

I don't, at the moment. I'm still running it. I thought the first horizontal floor was giving up but it really turned out great. :-)

I stumbled upon 6 powerful blowers from an old computer I might try later. It has 34mmH2O of static pressure but that might enable me to run it at a lower speed. It's not exactly silent...

[db.sanyodenki.co.jp]

Just remember to clamp your printer to the table else you'll be chasing it around the room..... LoL....
Let me know if you ned supports adding, as it will help others as well...
Kim..

---

Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

I'm still printing. As you can see the bridging has resulted in a few strings, but it looks airtight and straight otherwise. I'll run to its completion and see if it measures up. You may also notice the lower part of the chimney is missing! The web based gcodeviewer confirms the gcode really is like this. still, it will be fully functional.

Using Slicer 1.1.0

Quote
KimBrown
I will be online All Day and most of the evening to address any concerns.

This. Is what makes the community alive. Thanks Kim.

After 1.5 years in print time, it weighs in at a hefty 43grams. Is this reasonable?

Incase people were wondering....
I managed to get Big Blue to work with Slic3r software using version 1.0.0.0
It tells me that there are 10 Errors it automaticaly fixed.... But
If I slice the Fan-Duct on it's own I get no errors.
If I slice the Support Structure on it's own I get no errors.
Put the two together, and then it says there are errors.... But it still works...

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Big Blue 360
Gigantic after the turn of the Heatsink 90<°,

Print PLA
Heat 185°C
Bed 65°C

Y87mm clean,
X87mm still requires fine tuning !

Hi DKFZ, I work on a ship, so wasn't able to test the 360 fully. Thank you for that...
Now I am home so will do some tests my self. Did you use the Exhaust Metering plates, or try tape to block off the exhaust pipe?
And did you use one fan or two?

I take it your happy with the results.... Try the test again with a different exhaust pipe setting. To much cooling might cause laminating.
To little cooling and the Bridges might not be formed. But that would be at the extream length.

My next idea is to add a software adjustable flap to the exhaust port , so altering the amount of cooling automaticaly...

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Quote
KimBrown
My next idea is to add a software adjustable flap to the exhaust port , so altering the amount of cooling automaticaly...

Why not use the existing firmware function to just control the speed of the fan? If you connect the fan to the actual fan header on the Duet (instead of just +12V as per the instructions), you can control the speed with M106.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 02:06AM by jstck.

Quote
jstck
Why not use the existing firmware function to just control the speed of the fan? If you connect the fan to the actual fan header on the Duet (instead of just +12V as per the instructions), you can control the speed with M106.

Better still, use one fan wired to 12V to cool the heatsink, and another wired to the Duet fan pins to cool the print.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi what speed are people using to get these bridges ? in my atempts so far the faster the print speed = less stray threds

It's good to see the comments. I've a busy day today having just got back home from work, but I hope to do some more bridging tests later.
In Slic3r you can alter the initial bridge speed and flow ratio (the quantity if plastic in the initial bridging threads), so it would be good to see what settings people are trying.

As for the M106 fan speed, I'm not sure if it's just a case of swapping pins of the fan connection, as I don't know if the PWM pin can take the load of the fan. I'm sure DC could answer that question. I was going to design a servo controlled flap as the servo would react quicker than the fan speed changing.

I also need to re-do the Grill design, so that it doesn't need trimming for the new design of Big Blue, and add it to the files.
And remove a stringer support from inside the Heatsink Chamber that is now redundant (I'll mark STL as Revision 1a when done, as it's a minor thing), and needs removing so the HeatSink sits inside the chamber nicely. I've added strengthening to the HeatSink chanber as I broke the my BB not realising about the stringer and being in a hurry to test it.
If any one has any suggestions then it's better to PM me as I might miss it on one of the threads.

I also want to add a LED to the side of BB to show that the HotEnd heater is active, and then maybe start thinking about any other electronics to house inside of BB.


I'm glad people are liking it and enjoying using it.
I only have the No.2 kit here, which I'm going to try using again over the next few days, but if anyone has one of the other kits working on BB then it would be good to see some pictures, and hear some feed back incase the probe mount or holes in the probe mount need moving to alter the height.

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Quote
KimBrown
As for the M106 fan speed, I'm not sure if it's just a case of swapping pins of the fan connection, as I don't know if the PWM pin can take the load of the fan. I'm sure DC could answer that question. I was going to design a servo controlled flap as the servo would react quicker than the fan speed changing.

The "fan" pin is designed to take the load of a fan directly - but you must not connect the hotend fan to it, because that fan must always run at full speed in order to keep the cool block sufficiently cool. If you did so the filament would overheat and jam in the Bowden tube when the M106 command told the fan to run very slow or turn off. To use it for variable filament cooling you usually need a second fan that is used only to cool the filament.

In your case however the "fan" pin could perhaps be used to control a servo-operated flap. You could probably get it to work by connecting the "fan" pin directly to a small low power solenoid that pulls against a spring to move the flap. By adjusting the spring tension the solenoid could be made to sit in intermediate positions as the PWM changes from full off to full on. e.g [uk.rs-online.com] Connect a reverse biased diode across the solenoid in case the PWM output is not protected against back-emf.

I would be extremely interested if you could get such a mechanism working.

Dave
(#106)

Hi Dave, yes your right.... I'm not fully awake here after the long shifts...
My thoughts were to use a servo with the voltage dropped (I'd have to do similar to the PWM signal), to operate the flap.
Initialy I was going to link the servo to a cheap servo tester mounted in a box on top of the electronics box, as this would make altering the flap a breeze
during printing. Then DC suggested the M106 signal, so dropping the voltage might be best. It's easy enough to do.
I'll have a play around with it over the next few days.... I need to find the mocro servos I've put in a safe place first....lol

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Quote
KimBrown
Hi Dave, yes your right.... I'm not fully awake here after the long shifts...
My thoughts were to use a servo with the voltage dropped (I'd have to do similar to the PWM signal), to operate the flap.
Initialy I was going to link the servo to a cheap servo tester mounted in a box on top of the electronics box, as this would make altering the flap a breeze
during printing. Then DC suggested the M106 signal, so dropping the voltage might be best. It's easy enough to do.
I'll have a play around with it over the next few days.... I need to find the mocro servos I've put in a safe place first....lol

The PWM fan output is an open-drain output, but is also connected via an LED and 4k7 resistor to 12V which will put 12V onto the fan line when the fan is off, so to drive a servo you can either put a diode in series (cathode connected to fan output) or remove D8 or R68, then pull it up to 5V with a resistor and you should have a signal to feed into the control input of a standard servo BUT I have no idea whether the pulse width/frequency that is output is compatible with a standard servo. If not, that could no doubt be fairly easily changed in firmware, but you'd either have to set up a firmware build environment or persuade DC42 to add a suitable mode command to change from normal PWM fan control to pulses of suitable width range & frequency to drive a standard servo. If you are lucky however, then at least part of the range of M108 values will operate the servo as required. Servos should work fine with 5V, so no need to drop the 12V supply, just run a wire from the 5V supply. AFAIAA a servo's signal input can also be fed from a 3.3V digital output, so could be driven from any of the CPU's raw GPIO pins that are capable of being programmed to give a PWM output.

The alternative would be to fit separate electronics to convert from the Duet's fan PWM to a PWM signal suitable for a servo - which is not at all elegant, though it would be a reasonably simple circuit.

Perhaps consider my solenoid idea, which may well be easier to do than using an R/C servo and can be driven direct from the fan output with no modification.

Dave
(#106)

Quote
KimBrown
As for the M106 fan speed, I'm not sure if it's just a case of swapping pins of the fan connection, as I don't know if the PWM pin can take the load of the fan. I'm sure DC could answer that question. I was going to design a servo controlled flap as the servo would react quicker than the fan speed changing.

The FAN0 output has a power MOSFET (same as the ones for the bed and hotend heaters), so it can easily deal with the fan. The PWM output is fairly low-frequency though, so you can often hear the modulation frequency in the fan. Also it is pretty sensitive and very non-linear scale (at 85% or so duty-cycle, the fan is at roughly half speed).
Fan speed would be a lot more precise if you have a fan with built-in speed control (the ones that usually come with a 4-pin connector). That way, you just feed the fan a constant 12V for power and a separate PWM control signal. You could still use the same output, though it would work with any PWM ("analog") output pin.

It should be relatively easy to control a small RC servo. Those usually run on 5V (some want 6V and there are a few large ones that take 12V), and a PWM control signal. The signal timing is a bit tricky (it's not quite "regular" PWM as it's dependent on pulse duration rather than duty cycle), but there are plenty of code examples available for Arduino.