Thinking of trying a water cooled hot end

Just wondering if anyone has done this on an Ormerod given that their are many other repraps out there using this method of hot end cooling.
Have been thinking of replacing the aluminum piece that the hot end attaches to for a larger one with channels drilled through for water.

I'll be doing just that while I'm home later in the week.... Been looking around for a nice little 12V pump....

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Thort i might use a low voltage fountan pump for the water. Have noticed you have added cooling ducts to the bottom of big blue for bridging, what were your thorts on cooling the print with a water cooled hot end.

At the moment we have no air blowing from the hot end fan on to the print and insted use a normal fan to prevent warping after the first two layers. But i was thinking of using a little blower fan to provide cooling only at the point of extrusion.

I was going to add a mini fan with two ducts blowing down either side, like Big Blue has... I have a nice little 20mm fan waiting...
I would have thought that the Big Fan you have there would cause you warping problems....
Is the room very warm? Wish I could see a closer picture of the cooling rig,
My plan was to make a water cooled block out of Marine Grade Ally, that fell in to the boot of my
car..... The nice thing about Ally, is it didn't make a bang when it landed.....

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
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Will take a better picture with lights off. Am printing the test pice from the "Printing artefacts" post but forgot to turnoff the min layer time so print keeps stopping.

Room is about 25C not warm for the AU but we havent used the fan for any large flat prints yet so may have to cross that brige when we get to it :-) Like most Ormerod users theres been a lot of trial and error over the last 4 months. The current hotend rig is just a kapton tape mockup using a blower from an imac and a small heat sink from the bottom of a draw. There air is forced doun then around and out the top again in a U shape there is a small baffle running from the center top to half way doun the inside to enshour the air circulates around the full area of the heat sink. If the water cooled hot end becomes a non starter then ill probbly print out a proppre cover for this one.

You might be able to adapt a CPU water cooled heatsink. I'm not however convinced it will provide any improvement to the print quality - what advantages do you believe water cooling will provide above that provided by fan modifications that keep unwanted fan wash away from the bede??

Dave
(#106)

Hi Dave, one big thing will be to have more space around the HotEnd to see what's going on...
Water is a great medium for cooling, as it absorbs so much heat, so the flow doesn't have to be that much.
I'm even wondering if the outlet could be a water jacket for the filament to help raise it's temperature a little to reduce the work
the heater has to do. Hopefully it will be quieter that the fan/s as well. If it works out we can reduce the mass (weight) in that area, then faster speeds are also possible... I think there's allot to be gained by it.. I have my eye on my young ladies fish tank pump which I think I can find a better home for....
As for cooling the water, I think a jug of water on it's own would probide enough cooling for 5 or 6 hrs if not all day.

I also hope to start work on a twin Extruder head this coming week... The design is in my head, just got to progress it, but can't while at work...
My milling machine won't fit in my luggage....

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
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Hi Guys

You might want to look at the e3d Kraken:
Blog on printing with Duet and E3D Kraken

e3d Kraken

Its a water cooled monster but the theory could be scaled down to a single extruder. On the other hand it provides for future expansion.
I use a small pump that used to drive a pet water fountain - you dont need a very high flow rate to keep it cool, even with all 4 nozzles hot.

Cheers

Tony

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DuetWifi.: advanced 3d printing electronics

could something like this be used with the existing block? [www.ebay.co.uk]

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bigben
could something like this be used with the existing block? [www.ebay.co.uk]

Cheaper & more details here: [www.aquatuning.co.uk]

Quote:
Technical details:
Dimensions: 17x14x58mm
Weight: 113g
Material: Copper. nickel plated
Thread size: G1/4"
Hole distance: 61-96mm

It is a tad too big, though I guess it would be possible to mount it against the aluminium cooling block in a position that doesn't foul anything. I expect you'd also want the water tubes to be thinner than 1/4" to provide the required degree of flex. I think I would probably make a block myself. Not that difficult - the very simplest way would be to start with a length of square brass stock that matches the size of the aluminium cooling block. Drill a hole through it longitudinally and braze a couple of standard small brass pipe nipples into the hole at either end. This could then be clamped to the aluminium cooling block, perhaps with a couple of strong spring clips.

Dave
(#106)

Dave
(#106)

Since you wouldn't really need the heatsink and cooling fan for the hotend, you could have a "cooling block" that is a fair bit larger than just the standard block.

Is there any point in using a water-cooled hot end when there is just one extruder?

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Well, one thing would be to make the printer quieter (as the hotend cooling fan is by far the most noisy thing on the printer). Also because it's cool and challenging. But, if someone is making one, might as well do one with room for 3 or so nozzles.

which is what the Kraken is...

Quote
jstck
Since you wouldn't really need the heatsink and cooling fan for the hotend, you could have a "cooling block" that is a fair bit larger than just the standard block.

Sure, but a larger block has no advantages, and has the disadvantage of adding a fair bit of additional weight (water is heavy).

Dave
(#106)

Quote
jstck
Well, one thing would be to make the printer quieter (as the hotend cooling fan is by far the most noisy thing on the printer). Also because it's cool and challenging. But, if someone is making one, might as well do one with room for 3 or so nozzles.

If noise reduction is the main goal, do as many of us have done and just fit a quieter fan - they are very cheap. My replacement hotend fan (RS part # 758-8207) is so quiet I cannot hear it at all over the PSU fan (and I have a pretty quiet LED PSU). It takes 5 minutes to change ...

If you want to cool the filament, then you'll have to fit a separate fan near the hotend anyway. And you may well find you require a radiator and fan to keep the water acceptably cool over long prints - and find a safe place to mount the water pump and water reservoir/radiator. Water has a high specific heat so a large mass will heat very slowly - but I have done prints that took 12 hours to complete. No matter how much water is in the system there must be the same amount of heat getting out as is being put in at an acceptably low equilibrium temperature, and relying on standard plastic pipework to shed enough heat is almost certainly overly optimistic - especially at ABS temperatures. If that were the case, the existing heatsink would be sufficient without a fan, because I'm quite sure it can shed more heat in free air than a meter or so of plastic pipe can achieve. Water only transports the heat so you can get rid of it elsewhere, it doesn't remove the heat by itself unless you have a fish-tank sized reservoir or are feeding water from a tap and expelling it down a drain.

All in all I am far from convinced that it will result in any appreciable improvement, and may well cause unforeseen problems.

Dave
(#106)

Dave

All valid points, the main advantage in my experience is the ability to reduce the size of hotend for multiple extruder setups. The water cooling is very efficient in comparison to air allowing for a relatively small cooling block with a number of closely packed nozzles. It is probably over complicating things for a "standard" single extruder setup.

Cheers

Tony

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DuetWifi.: advanced 3d printing electronics

Quote
T3P3
Hi Guys
Its a water cooled monster
Tony

Hi Tony,
the monster is fully compatible with Ormerod?.... I love it

Dario

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Ormerod 187
Firmware Electronics: Duet 0.6
Firmware Version:1.18.1 (2017-04-07)
Web Interface Version:1.15a
Slic3r 1.2.9a and Simplify3D 4.0.0
[www.dropbox.com]

Hi Dario

It is supported by the Duet, but clearly you need the Duex4 expansion board to run more than one extruder. Like I did for the Mendel90 the hotend mount would need some modification. My Multi Extruder branch of RepRap firmware works with it already

Cheers

Tony

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DuetWifi.: advanced 3d printing electronics

For a single hot end i think weight might be a problem given the boom like configeration of the ormerod. Im curently trying to cut down a heat pipe from an old laptop but its a bit heavy. I think it might be better to replace the aluminum mounting block rather than just stick somthing on in place of the current heat sink.

As for why ? i like to be able to see what im printing without having to peer under the fan and cooling vents.

Quote
JMC
As for why ? i like to be able to see what im printing without having to peer under the fan and cooling vents.

Why not simply take a hacksaw to the cooling vents as I have done? Then block the air channel to the vents and drill a hole in the top of the fan block for the air to get out instead. Sure, there is still the fan block present, but you have plenty of clearance to print up close to the clips etc., and I get a very reasonable view of the print. If I wanted a slightly better view it would be trivial to design a different fan block so that nothing extends below the bottom of the cooling block. (Which I intend to do as soon as I can source a round tooit, as well as making a separate controllable fan for cooling bridges),

Dave
(#106)

Quote
dmould

Quote
JMC
As for why ? i like to be able to see what im printing without having to peer under the fan and cooling vents.

Why not simply take a hacksaw to the cooling vents as I have done? Then block the air channel to the vents and drill a hole in the top of the fan block for the air to get out instead. Sure, there is still the fan block present, but you have plenty of clearance to print up close to the clips etc., and I get a very reasonable view of the print. If I wanted a slightly better view it would be trivial to design a different fan block so that nothing extends below the bottom of the cooling block. (Which I intend to do as soon as I can source a round tooit, as well as making a separate controllable fan for cooling bridges),

Dave
(#106)

:-) done that but want to go further.

Quote
JMC

Quote
dmould

Quote
JMC
As for why ? i like to be able to see what im printing without having to peer under the fan and cooling vents.

Why not simply take a hacksaw to the cooling vents as I have done? Then block the air channel to the vents and drill a hole in the top of the fan block for the air to get out instead. Sure, there is still the fan block present, but you have plenty of clearance to print up close to the clips etc., and I get a very reasonable view of the print. If I wanted a slightly better view it would be trivial to design a different fan block so that nothing extends below the bottom of the cooling block. (Which I intend to do as soon as I can source a round tooit, as well as making a separate controllable fan for cooling bridges),

Dave
(#106)

:-) done that but want to go further.

Good heavens! Not sure you need quite that much airflow!

As an idle musing, I wonder whether a Peltier cooler would pump sufficient heat away from the cool block? We have high current 12V DC readily available, and it would do away with complex plumbing.

Dave
(#106)

Quote
dmould
As an idle musing, I wonder whether a Peltier cooler would pump sufficient heat away from the cool block? We have high current 12V DC readily available, and it would do away with complex plumbing.

A Peltier just moves heat from one side to the other, adding more of its own - so giving you more heat to get rid of with a heatsink and fan. It's not useful unless you want to cool something to below room temperature, or at least below what you can achieve with a heatsink and fan.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2014 07:27AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

have just finished the water cooled heat sink. I was hoping to test it tonight but will have to wait till the shops open tomorro so i can get a pump and some more pipe. I ended up keeping the original ali block becouse i did not want to dismantle the hot end untill i have some spare bits (incase i stuff somthing) but im hoping to be able to replace the whole thing eventualy make room for multiple heads.

Dunno if this might work in that application
Halfords windscreen washer pump

regards
Andy

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Ormerod #318
www.zoomworks.org - Free and Open Source Stuff

Have just completed my first water cooled print.

The setup needs some improvment but the print quality is consistant with my previos blower heat sink. The biggest problem will most likely be keeping the water cool over a very long print, my curent setup uses a beer mug with some ice in it whitch may have been too effective as i noticed condensation forming on the heatsink and the hot end tempricher wavering slightly. My next step will be to setup some sort of cooling coill and if possible sorcing a non submercible pump so i can make the system more contained and not have a jug of water on my desk.

It would be priceless if you made it look like this