Printing on Glass

Hi All

You can print both PLA and ABS straight on glass using good old fashion hair spray.

I found the Kapton tape to be intrusive and looked for an alternative.

Any hairspray with Vinyl neodecanoate copolymer is fine.

I spray a little it every few prints, this evens out all flaws from previous prints, and would guess the glass has to be cleaned every hundred prints or so.

PLA I print with bed temp 65C throughout print
ABS sticks at 85C for the first 5 layers and then I put it down to 50C-65C for the rest. This means you don't need a cover the printer to print ABS as these heats are easily achievable in normal conditions

Try it, you will be amazed at how much more accurate the print is. Also put the white conner stickers on top in the clear now..

A photo printing PLA on glass

Also the head that is different colour has been reprinted in ABS on glass

Thanks for this. Was going to give hairspray a try in the week.

How easy is it to remove the prints when finished ? at the moment im having to peel the tape off to get some larger prints off the glass without damaging them. the blue tape works a bit two well so i might have to give this a go.

I wait about 5-10mins after print and then it just comes off. It comes of remarkably easy in comparison to things on the Kapton tape....

It is like when the hair spray cools again then the bond wants to disengage...you can also spray some PC Duster or similar product on it but the wait has never been that long.

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KaGen101
I wait about 5-10mins after print and then it just comes off. It comes of remarkably easy in comparison to things on the Kapton tape....

It is like when the hair spray cools again then the bond wants to disengage...you can also spray some PC Duster or similar product on it but the wait has never been that long.

I print directly to the glass, but without hairspray or anything else. I just clean the glass very carefully before i start.
Just as KaGen says, the printed part comes off very easy after cooling down.
I'm sure this has nothing to do with the spray, but it happens because the plastic shrink when it cools down and therefore looses the grip to the glass.
(Plastic shrink typically 0,5 to 2.5%, depending on the type of plastic.)

Quote
Form232-tek
I print directly to the glass, but without hairspray or anything else. I just clean the glass very carefully before i start.

This works for PLA, but I don't think you'll get it to work for ABS.

I found that a solution made by dissolving some ABS in acetone and painted onto the glass works better than hairspray - and is a heck of a lot cheaper. No need to clean the glass first either, making it very quick & easy. Use white or "natural" ABS to avoid colouring the base of your prints. A quick wipe with a kitchen towel soaked in acetone removes any flakes of ABS film on the base of the print - or you can pick it off by hand.

Dave
(#106)

The green neon heads in the photo attached where printed like this on glass as is.

As a matter of fact it sticks at much lower temps:
85C first 5 layers then drop the heat down to 50C so the ABS don't warp

Works brilliantly with ABS. Actually tried it on that first and then PLA

Quote
KaGen101
The green neon heads in the photo attached where printed like this on glass as is.

As a matter of fact it sticks at much lower temps:
85C first 5 layers then drop the heat down to 50C so the ABS don't warp

Works brilliantly with ABS. Actually tried it on that first and then PLA

Are you saying that you printed ABS onto plain glass? In your first post you said you used hairspray. I found hairspray works OK with ABS, but the ABS/acetone solution is better & cheaper. My understanding is that a cooler bed is more likely to increase warping rather than reduce it. The ABS will stick to cold glass coated with my ABS/acetone solution and is fine for a few layers, but will tend to lift on later layers if the bed is kept cold.

Dave
(#106)

Quote
dmould

Quote
KaGen101
The green neon heads in the photo attached where printed like this on glass as is.

As a matter of fact it sticks at much lower temps:
85C first 5 layers then drop the heat down to 50C so the ABS don't warp

Works brilliantly with ABS. Actually tried it on that first and then PLA

Are you saying that you printed ABS onto plain glass? In your first post you said you used hairspray. I found hairspray works OK with ABS, but the ABS/acetone solution is better & cheaper. My understanding is that a cooler bed is more likely to increase warping rather than reduce it. The ABS will stick to cold glass coated with my ABS/acetone solution and is fine for a few layers, but will tend to lift on later layers if the bed is kept cold.

Dave
(#106)

I've had the same results as Dave - cooling the bed after a few layers made it more likely for the ABS to come away during the print. I use both Kapton tape and ABS juice and find the print can then be done at 85C bed temperature.
The thicker the ABS parts, the more it will contract towards itself, so even with the Kapton tape and ABS juice I've had thick parts that tried very hard to pull off and after the print is complete there is an outline of the shape in small bubbles in the Kapton tape!

Quote
VortyZA
I've had the same results as Dave - cooling the bed after a few layers made it more likely for the ABS to come away during the print. I use both Kapton tape and ABS juice and find the print can then be done at 85C bed temperature.
The thicker the ABS parts, the more it will contract towards itself, so even with the Kapton tape and ABS juice I've had thick parts that tried very hard to pull off and after the print is complete there is an outline of the shape in small bubbles in the Kapton tape!

Yes - and if you are unlucky the base will remain stuck to the bed fine - but the warp will cause delamination and your print gets ripped apart!

Dave
(#106)

That being said, I have one specific part that I *cannot* print without it pulling off the bed even with Kapton tape and ABS juice.
What sort of ratio of ABS to acetone do you use? How thickly do you apply it?
If I'm printing that part I have to baby it for the first 10 layers or so, 'gluing' the part down if it starts lifting off the bed with a generous portion of juice! It tends to pull off proportionately no matter the orientation of the part, so it's got to do with the design I'm sure.
I've even tried adding 'anchor' parts to remove afterwards that have nice round bases, but those pull away too!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2014 12:28AM by VortyZA.

I don't use ABS, I hope to one day, but am happy with PLA at the moment.

BUT, I have found a better way of cleaning the glass. I now use Washing Up Liquid and Bathroom Scouring Cream together, and scrub that in to the surface of the glass.
I don't have to use the Vinegar then if I don't want to.
Normally I put the Bed heater on while I'm cleaning the glass. Rinse the glass well, and drain off the water, wipe the back of the glass with a towel, then mount it.
The glass is normaly so clean it starts to grab the paper towel I use to get the moisture off out of my hands.

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

I find that as long as I'm careful not to touch the glass, I only need to wipe it with vinegar (when the bed is hot) between prints. I clean it with hot water and washing up liquid about once a week.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
VortyZA
That being said, I have one specific part that I *cannot* print without it pulling off the bed even with Kapton tape and ABS juice.
What sort of ratio of ABS to acetone do you use? How thickly do you apply it?
If I'm printing that part I have to baby it for the first 10 layers or so, 'gluing' the part down if it starts lifting off the bed with a generous portion of juice! It tends to pull off proportionately no matter the orientation of the part, so it's got to do with the design I'm sure.
I've even tried adding 'anchor' parts to remove afterwards that have nice round bases, but those pull away too!

Have you tried printing with a raft? If it lifts after only a few layers, it's likely that the extruder is the wrong height on that part of the first layer. Too high and it won't stick properly, a bit too low is good, but if excessively low the layer has very thin "lean" spots that also don't stick well (easily seen). Warping doesn't usually start occurring until the print is at least 5mm high.

I don't measure the solution strength. When the jar starts running low I just add a bit of acetone and about an eighth or so that volume of ABS - but very approximately judged. I keep scrap prints of white & natural ABS for that purpose, and hack them up with tinsnips. It is still runny like water, and I brush a single coat onto the glass, then check that the whole glass surface looks frosty after it has dried - if not I touch up the shiny bits. If there are too many shiny bits I give the whole glass a re-coat and add a bit more ABS to the solution. Brush onto cold glass and let it dry at room temperature (it only takes a minute or so) before heating on the bed.

Caution - if you spill even a few small drops on your clothes it is difficult to get rid of the stain it leaves. It will eventually come out with repeated soaking in acetone and rubbing with a kitchen towel, but a normal wash won't touch it.

Dave
(#106)

Quote
dmould

Quote
VortyZA
That being said, I have one specific part that I *cannot* print without it pulling off the bed even with Kapton tape and ABS juice.
What sort of ratio of ABS to acetone do you use? How thickly do you apply it?
If I'm printing that part I have to baby it for the first 10 layers or so, 'gluing' the part down if it starts lifting off the bed with a generous portion of juice! It tends to pull off proportionately no matter the orientation of the part, so it's got to do with the design I'm sure.
I've even tried adding 'anchor' parts to remove afterwards that have nice round bases, but those pull away too!

Have you tried printing with a raft? If it lifts after only a few layers, it's likely that the extruder is the wrong height on that part of the first layer. Too high and it won't stick properly, a bit too low is good, but if excessively low the layer has very thin "lean" spots that also don't stick well (easily seen). Warping doesn't usually start occurring until the print is at least 5mm high.

I don't measure the solution strength. When the jar starts running low I just add a bit of acetone and about an eighth or so that volume of ABS - but very approximately judged. I keep scrap prints of white & natural ABS for that purpose, and hack them up with tinsnips. It is still runny like water, and I brush a single coat onto the glass, then check that the whole glass surface looks frosty after it has dried - if not I touch up the shiny bits. If there are too many shiny bits I give the whole glass a re-coat and add a bit more ABS to the solution. Brush onto cold glass and let it dry at room temperature (it only takes a minute or so) before heating on the bed.

Caution - if you spill even a few small drops on your clothes it is difficult to get rid of the stain it leaves. It will eventually come out with repeated soaking in acetone and rubbing with a kitchen towel, but a normal wash won't touch it.

Dave
(#106)

I've found that it does start at about 5mm as you said. I haven't tried the raft yet, I'll try tonight. I think Kisslicer's equivalent for the raft is the grid?

dc42 - are you talking about PLA or do you also print ABS straight on the glass?

I'm talking about PLA. I have a roll of ABS but I haven't started it yet.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
I'm talking about PLA. I have a roll of ABS but I haven't started it yet.

Oh OK - I would really be impressed if objects could be printed in ABS on the glass with it not pulling away!

Does the vinegar give the PLA something to stick to? I've tried printing directly on glass with PLA before and I found that in my case the filament would just slide around with the head..

Yes the vinegar helps it to stick. Other tips for printing PLA direct on glass:

* Use a higher bed temperature than for Kapton. I use 68C.

* Don't use organic solvent to clean the glass initially. Use hot soapy water.

* Use a slow first layer speed, especially if the print has sharp curves. I have the speed for "small perimeters" in slic3r set to 10mm/sec.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].