Going kapton free

I have finally got fed up with digging my nails into the kapton tape and removed most of it for a test.

Did a quick frame in openscad, 100x100x2mm thick and printed with an 8mm skirt, worked perfectly.

Question is, I'm using dc42's mk1 probe board with the modulated IR sensor which has been working well, but will it work on plain glass and will I still need the white paper bits under the corners?

Any others running PLA on plain glass?


I'm using temps of 57 & 195/190

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Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Hi

Yes, I print PLA onto glass at 57/200, with no problems.

Great, what z probing system are you using?

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

I am running a manual system using a 6mm drill bit, if you look at my other posts I had a rant recently on how I manually do it and get very acceptable prints.
Later on I will experiment with the IR sensor but for now "dont fix what ain't broke" attitude prevails.

Hi Davek,

Yes, the modulated IR sensor on the Mk 1 board is designed to work with reflective targets. I don't think you will get high enough G31 readings on plain glass. If you don't need to print right up to the corners of the bed, you could stick a square of white PVC tape in each corner.

The Mk 2 board with differential IR sensors works well on plain glass, Kapton etc. (but not so well on white tape!). So I always do z-homing at the centre of the glass now. For large prints, I also probe the corners for bed compensation because I have a slight twist in the Y axis.

I print direct on glass with a bed temperature of 65C (actual temperature on the top surface is more like 56C), first layer temperature 195C, other layers 185C. My top tips:

* Wash the bed in hot soapy water initially, not acetone or any other organic solvent;

* Then avoid finger-marking the surface you are going to print on (if you do, wash it in hot soapy water again);

* Before each print, wipe the bed with a tissue dampened with vinegar, preferably when the bed is hot;

* Set the slic3r speed for "small perimeters" to a low value;

* To remove the print, allow it to cool down (which is faster if you remove the bed and turn it on edge), then it usually comes off easily. Large prints may stick rather too well, but 10 minutes in the freezer releases them,

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Thanks DC,

You say the mk1 works with reflective surfaces, would it recognise the alu heat spreader beneath the glass?

What sort of vinegar is used?

I've been using nail varnish remover which has worked very well up to now, on kapton the parts stuck too well most if the time.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
Davek0974
You say the mk1 works with reflective surfaces, would it recognise the alu heat spreader beneath the glass?

Possibly, but because of the 3mm thickness of the glass, the G31 reading might be rather low. Also, aluminium tape gave less consistent readings than white tape using the original IR sensor, so it might be a good idea to put white paper squares on top of the aluminium if you are going to try this.

Quote
Davek0974
What sort of vinegar is used?

I use Tesco distilled vinegar. I used ordinary malt vinegar before I bought that.

Quote
Davek0974
I've been using nail varnish remover which has worked very well up to now, on kapton the parts stuck too well most if the time.

I found that acetone (which is what nail varnish remover mostly is) or isopropanol worked well when I was using Kapton. However, when I switched to printing directly on the glass, I had poor adhesion after I used either of them to clean the bed.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Ok, thanks, i will get some distilled vinegar.

I will try the modulated probe with the clear glass and see what readings I get.

Your Mk2 probe board, is it a plug-and-play swap for the mk1 board??


Dave

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Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Nail polish remover often has oil added (so as not to dry the skin), which is left behind after the acetone evaporates and could spoil the adhesion. Plain acetone is a heck of a lot cheaper and available in large cans from any shop that sells fibreglass supplies, e.g. [www.cfsnet.co.uk]

Dave
(#106)

Quote
Davek0974
Your Mk2 probe board, is it a plug-and-play swap for the mk1 board??

Yes, you just need to print a new insulator for it (without the holder for the ultrasonic transducer) and possibly adjust the size of the sensor pad used for x-homing. The mounting holes and connectors are the same. Instructions and photos here [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]. I sell an upgrade kit without the screws and female connectors, for users of the Mk1 board.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2014 02:30PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Sounds good, I presume that as my mk1 board was working perfectly I can just plug-n-play with the m2 board?

I have the insulator without the ultrasonic as I never had that option.

I also have an extended x homing target so should be good to go.

I'll put an order in on your thread.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

deleted

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2014 07:31PM by Fatlab.

I just tried the blue tape from Scotch. That sticks like hell, even much better as the delivered Kapton tape.

I always print direct on glass now, even for prints that I used to think were tricky and needed to be printed on solvent cement instead. Adhesion to my glass plates seems to get better and better the more prints I do.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

DC I've cheated a little, by roughing up the glass with wet and dry paper.... It's helped allot...
Still have to wash it, and use vinager, but it works every time, and the scuff makes on the glass don't come out on the print.
Think I used 400 wet and dry...

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

Interesting, I tried printing on frosted glass a couple of times and it wouldn't stick at all.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Allot of Frosted glass isn't the sand blasted type, and has a thin layer of plastic film on it. You might see it at the corner of the glass if you have a pick at it. Sand blasted glass isn't quite uniform either, as the guy sand blasting it sprays the sand at the glass like a paint sprayer.
I just scuffed up my glass while I was washing it using the Wet & Dry. I always use one of those small cheap sponges with the green abrasive pad on the back, and really work the fairy liquid on to the glass.
Don't have any problems getting the plastic to cling to the glass doing it that way. What I have noticed is when you really get the glass clean, after the print is released you can see an oily mark on the glass from the plastic.
Sometimes just vinager will give it enough grip for the next print, but after a few prints, only washing, and scrubbing will do.

I was amazed at how critical the Nozzle Mount turned out to be. I had a heck of a job trying to get a print to start a while back... It just wouldn't play ball at all... I gave up in frustration that night, and wanted to change the mount
for one of my designs without the countersink holes in it... After fitting I decided to give it one last go... Perfect... Just because the nozzle was now level to the glass...
When I looked at the base of the last print I'd done before the mount change, and the one after the mount change, I noticed that the patterns were different. The earlier one had a mix of thick and thin filament lines, and the later one was very nearly the same all over. After a think, I worked out what was happening. With the original mount the plastic was getting pushed on to the glass in one direction so was thicker. And when the Hotend went back the other way the plastic was rolling off the nozzle instead of being pushed on to the glass, and so was thinner, being nearly round. You can see what I mean by using a tube of tooth paste holding it at an angle. It gets pushed on to the surface in one direction, and remains almost round in the other.... Simples.....

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Please send me a PM if you have suggestions, or problems with Big Blue 360.
I won't see comments in threads, as I move around to much.
Working Link to Big Blue 360 Complete

I forgot to mention that printing directly on glass turns out to be better as printing on kapton tape. But with the filaments that I use at the moment it is not possible to print directly on glass. In my doubt I tried the blue Scotchtape and I only can repeat myself: It sticks like hell. But this is still not enough for my PLA, but ABS is working now.

When I was having problems getting prints to stick, I found that I never had adhesion problems when printing PLA on solvent cement. I haven't tried printing on blue tape, because except for one roll of filament that I have given up on, I have no problems printing directly on glass now.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

It's working now, sort of, once I fit the new probe board I'm going to give it a fine tuning and scrub the glass up, tests so far have just been with a wipe of vinegar.

The zero setting for Z is very critical without any bed tape though.

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

The glass needs a good scrub before you start printing directly on it. After that, if I avoid touching the glass as far as possible, a wipe with vinegar between prints seems to be enough. I wash the glass maybe once a fortnight, or once a week at most. It's possible that putting a £10 dehumidifier in the print room has helped

I have the web interface set to half Z steps so that I can adjust the Z height to within 0.05mm. I find that the differential IR probe is repeatable to this accuracy.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Great, how do you set the half steps?


Can't wait to fit the probe when it gets here.


Dave

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
Davek0974
Great, how do you set the half steps?

It's on the Settings tab on the web interface.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Great, will have a play with that

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.