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ormerod-2??

Posted by zeb00 
ormerod-2??
August 16, 2014 10:20AM
https://reprappro.com/documentation/ormerod-2/

i dont think this was there yesterday
Re: ormerod-2??
August 16, 2014 11:54AM
There's also now an Ormerod 2 kit for sale in the shop. smiling smiley

Ormerod 2
Re: ormerod-2??
August 16, 2014 02:29PM
yes those have some upgrades mainly the BEDSUPPORT
but its still the same machine

i think in the forum here are still better upgrades than ormerod 2 has
vs ormerod 1 red/green/..

so dont panic guys
Re: ormerod-2??
August 16, 2014 03:00PM
Differences I have spotted so far:

- Bed support is now 6mm ply and triangular
- y-rib now fits behind the linear bearings, making it is nearer to the bed support screws in the corners of the bed support
- y-belt locks into place in the carriage
- y-motor is at the other end of the y axis, and mounted in slots to allow belt tension to be adjusted
- Heated bed is now supplied with a pre-made loom (not a ribbon cable) and the bed thermistor is pre-crimped to the connector pins
- Bed height adjusting screws are standard
- Bed retaining clips are photo frame clips
- Fan duct air outlet shapes are changed, and there are 2 cable tie loops on the top
- 4-wire modulated Z probe sensor is used
- Duet board looks the same, however the 5V supply is now provided by an external linear regulator
- Duet is mounted in a metal enclosure
- PSU is of the sort that several of us have changed to, not an ATX PSU
- All wiring looms use shielded cable
- A cooling fan is fitted to the enclosure (presumably because of the extra heat dissipation of the 5V linear regulator)

So in summary:

- Y axis and bed support improved (which many of us have done already)
- Electronics, power and wiring changed to reduce EMI
- Modulated z-probe
- A few other minor changes e.g. hot end fan outlet shape, y motor moved to other end



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 16, 2014 03:41PM
The duet enclosure is nice, if the duet + duex4 fits in it, i want one enclosure.....
Re: ormerod-2??
August 16, 2014 04:46PM
Looks like a nice "Mk II" upgrade, as it fixes most of the teething problems of the Ormerod 1 (as I predict the "old Ormerod" will henceforth be called). Bed support and levelling, Y belt tensioning and IR sensor stability seem to be the things most new Ormerod users have had problems with.

Quote
dc42
- Duet board looks the same, however the 5V supply is now provided by an external linear regulator

One small difference on the Duet board, it now has screw terminals for bed heat and pins for the bed thermistor soldered (to match the new type of cables), at least my Duet lacks those.
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 02:26AM
Looks good, is that your latest excellent IR probe DC42?

I guess there won't be many more aluminium bed supports needed anymore.?

6mm ply is whole lot better than the mdf offering, but why not go straight for an alu one?


Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world smiling smiley

Also supplier of...
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates - no more sagging heat bed. [ddmetalproducts.co.uk]
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods - no more bendy acrylic. [ddmetalproducts.co.uk]
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 03:42AM
Quote
Davek0974
why not go straight for an alu one?

I would guess cost. There is still a point in keeping the "base kit" cheap.
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 04:35AM
Quote
Davek0974
Looks good, is that your latest excellent IR probe DC42?

No, it's a simple modulated one, similar to the hack I described here [forums.reprap.org]. It's much less sensitive to ambient IR than the unmodulated one, but still very sensitive to the target type, so it needs white paper or white tape targets.

Quote
Davek0974
I guess there won't be many more aluminium bed supports needed anymore.?

And I guess that demand for my differential IR sensor board will go down too, even though it doesn't need specific targets and provides other functions (fan control, illumination, and LEDs to indicate heating and the trigger point). But I still intend to commission another small batch, maybe only 30 this time.

Quote
Davek0974
6mm ply is whole lot better than the mdf offering, but why not go straight for an alu one?

Perhaps RRP's laser cutter can't handle aluminium. It's much harder to cut than wood or acrylic because it reflects the laser light very well.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 09:46AM
Looks like there might be a pricing error somewhere.
It appears that the hardware kit is only ten pounds cheaper than the whole kit.
Most of their other printers have around sixty pounds difference.


Ormerod #17
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 09:56AM
Quote
dc42

Perhaps RRP's laser cutter can't handle aluminium. It's much harder to cut than wood or acrylic because it reflects the laser light very well.

Good point, I had many discussions with the cutters I use about aluminium. It seems that without the correct system and knowledge it is very easy to wreck a laser cutter with aluminium, the molten pool forms a very effective mirror and can bounce back enough power to ruin the laser.

I have no idea what system RRP use.


Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world smiling smiley

Also supplier of...
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates - no more sagging heat bed. [ddmetalproducts.co.uk]
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods - no more bendy acrylic. [ddmetalproducts.co.uk]
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 04:41PM
Hi people

Yes, we've 'soft launched' the Ormerod 2 this weekend; the full instructions will be uploaded to our website, and the design files to Github, early in the week. We've been at the Bristol Model Engineers Exhibition in Thornbury (it's about 3 miles from where we're based) this weekend, showing a couple of examples off, along with Tall-merod and the dual-head machine. Lots of interest!

dc42 has pretty much hit the nail on the head with the changes. Regarding the continued use of acrylic parts, our laser cutters (three HTC LS6840 with 60-watt lasers) can't cut aluminium - I wish they could! Out-sourcing aluminium laser cutting would add significantly to the cost of the kit, and our intention is to provide a relatively low-cost, fully-featured kit. We accept a level of breakages, but somehow rarely break the acrylic parts ourselves. We may provide aluminium versions as 'extras' eventually, but you guys are doing a good job of this doing that, and we're happy to have the community support!

The Y carriage changes are backwards compatible, but the back Y-rod has moved, to allow the y-cross-rib to fit behind it, and support the back of the bed better. This means that the y-axis printed parts, and laser cut parts, are all different, as is the bed construction; no cardboard. The PCB is sandwiched between the aluminium heat spreader and 3mm MDF, as with our Mendel printer. We have had this change on our in-house machines for a couple of months, as we sort out other parts.

The thing that has taken us a lot of time is sorting out the Electro Magnetic Interference (EMI) shielding, to get CE class A certification. We've learnt a lot doing this, and it will inform changes that we will make to the next version of the Duet. It also opens up some interesting markets for us. We've replaced the ATX PSU with the 12V PSU that we have used for our Mendel machines, which performs better. The fan, incidentally, is for moving hot air out of the PSU mostly, so it doesn't heat up the Duet board, not for cooling the small extra board that has the 5V regulator on it - it doesn't run that hot.

The proximity probe has been changed to a 4-wire probe, and these will be available separately, and is backwards compatible. To fit well, you do need to print out a new x-carriage, though. Feel free to ask any questions about the Ormerod 2, if it's not clear.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support
Re: ormerod-2??
August 17, 2014 05:30PM
Ian, have you considered using thicker acrylic for the x-plate? Stiffness increases with the cube of thickness. I think the acrylic you currently use is supposed to be 5mm, but both my original x-plate and the replacement you sent me are significantly thinner than that (4.6 and 4.7mm). This is probably one of the reasons why I needed to use a 10mm x-runner bearing in place of the 9mm one supplied.

Regarding the Duet 5V supply, I still think that reworking the switching regulator is a better option than using a linear regulator. That switching regulator is only rated at 10W output, and it could be reduced to 5W like the linear regulator. For comparison, the step-down regulators on PC motherboards handle up to about 100W, and yet PCs that use them are CE approved. IMO the biggest problem with the Duet switching regulator is the use of an inductor with an open magnetic circuit. You won't find those on PC motherboards.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 18, 2014 04:25AM
The acrylic we use now IS 5mm. The earlier stuff we used was more variable; it's the difference between using cast and extruded acrylic, and we haven't had any problems with variation in thickness since we swapped to extruded, which was after the first 500 red kits. I can send you the current x-axis-plate and x-rib if you would like.

You'll have to talk to Tony Lock about the 5V regulator - you know I'm no electronics engineer! We won't use a switching regulator again until we absolutely understand how to control the noise produced by it - we're happier sticking with what we know works. Of course there must be a way to control/shield a switching regulator as they're used in lots of places, but it may require some serious re-routing of the board.

Ian
RepRapPro tech support
Re: ormerod-2??
August 18, 2014 06:42AM
Quote
droftarts
The acrylic we use now IS 5mm. The earlier stuff we used was more variable; it's the difference between using cast and extruded acrylic, and we haven't had any problems with variation in thickness since we swapped to extruded, which was after the first 500 red kits.

That's good to know, but have you considered using 6mm acrylic? It would have 70% more stiffness, which would reduce the variation in nozzle height that many users have seen along the x-axis, caused by slight flexing of the acrylic. It would also be better able to support multiple extruders.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 19, 2014 05:31AM
Ian, among the improvements listed on your Ormerod 2 page I noticed this:

"The extruder has much easier access for cleaning; it has a locked drive stack that improves reliability"

Can you explain this please?

PS - also, I can't find the new fan duct design in the github repository, in either the master or dev branch.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2014 05:38AM by dc42.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 19, 2014 05:58AM
Quote
dc42
"The extruder has much easier access for cleaning; it has a locked drive stack that improves reliability"

I think I've worked out the "locked drive stack". The hook on the end of the extruder drive body is longer, and the x-rib now has 3 slots to accept the ends of these. So you no longer need a lip on the slot at the top of the x-plate, and the extruder drive assembly can just be dropped into position instead of having to be rotated.

Looks like DaveK may need to redesign his aluminium x-axis kit for Ormerod 2, and masonstonehenge may want to modify his spring-loaded extruder design to include the option of a longer hook.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2014 05:58AM by dc42.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 19, 2014 08:33AM
Points noted DC42,

I will wait until these models hit the market, but will change my listings to quote Ormerod1 or something similar.

Dave


Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world smiling smiley

Also supplier of...
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates - no more sagging heat bed. [ddmetalproducts.co.uk]
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods - no more bendy acrylic. [ddmetalproducts.co.uk]
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.
Re: ormerod-2??
August 19, 2014 10:50AM
It should be easy to file off the lip for those of us who wish to update our existing Ormerod with a new extruder housing.

Dave
(#106)
Re: ormerod-2??
August 19, 2014 11:21AM
Quote
dmould
It should be easy to file off the lip for those of us who wish to update our existing Ormerod with a new extruder housing.

Yes, but you would also have to cut slots in the x-rib to accommodate the new extruder housing.



Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
Re: ormerod-2??
August 20, 2014 07:08AM
Quote
droftarts
Hi people

...

Ian
RepRapPro tech support

Are you planing any "upgrade kits" that would upgrade a Ormerod1 to an Ormerod2?
Re: ormerod-2??
August 20, 2014 07:57AM
Thanks for the questions!
1. I asked Jean-Marc why he chose 5mm acrylic, rather than 6mm. I think it was a 'finger in the air' decision; it seems roughly the right thickness during development. Also price and availability, of course! It may also have been due to the extra cutting time of 6mm acrylic; even on 5mm acrylic, we're at 7mm/s. As usual, it's a balancing act...
2a. "The extruder has much easier access for cleaning; it has a locked drive stack that improves reliability"
This is due to a very slight change to the extruder body, which was to relief around the hobbed insert. By doing this, the whole large gear assembly can just push in, with both bearings and the nyloc nut already mounted (the 'locked drive stack' - Adrian's words!) on the M3 hex screw; you don't need to leave one bearing in the back of the extruder, and do up the nyloc separately. You can actually do this on the original extruder drive, as it's just a printing artefact that stops it sliding in; if you trim off the excess (rather fiddly inside the drive) or just force it in a few times, you can leave the large gear assembly together. We still haven't updated the filament input path... but it's on the list as one of the first 'tweaks' required.
2b. The extruder drive does have a longer hook, so that it clips into the new slots in the x-rib. This solves two problems; it means we can easily use the extruder slot nearest the Z axis, and it stops the extruder drives twisting down if the slot with the little lip (on the Ormerod 1 x-axis-plate, removed on Ormerod 2) is damaged, and interfering with the x-carriage idler bearing.
3. Upgrade kits. I'm guessing you mean the Y axis parts, rather than the wiring, metal enclosure etc. Yes, this is a distinct possibility. All the parts are available individually; I guess I just need to write a list of the differences between 1 and 2!

Ian
RepRapPro tech support
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