Single- and dual-nozzle differential LED hot end board availability

I have commissioned a batch of single nozzle hot end boards to be manufactured next week, and I expect to ship them from Monday 8 September. I currently have just 19 orders for them, but I am hoping that orders will continue to trickle in; so I have ordered a batch of 50 rather than the 30 I originally intended. This has allowed me to reduce the price by about £4 from the original prices (see later for the new prices).

The bare PCBs for the dual nozzle boards are on their way to me and I hope to receive them early next week. So if all goes well, I hope to assemble, test and ship the first 2-nozzle boards by the end of next week.

For those who have already requested single-nozzle boards, I will start sending PayPal requests for payment tomorrow. If you have requested a board but do not receive a PayPal request before Tuesday morning, please PM me. I will defer sending payment requests for dual nozzle boards until I have built and tested the first one.

If you haven't yet ordered a board but wish to do so, I have plenty of single-nozzle boards and 2 dual nozzle boards unallocated. To order, send me a PM with your PayPal email address, what you want to order, and which pricing column applies. If you require an invoice for UK VAT purposes, please say so (unless you are UK VAT registered, the PayPal receipt should be enough for your records). If you are claiming the Europe ex VAT price, I also need your company name and VAT registration number (these customers will automatically receive a full invoice). Invoices will be sent by email to the same invoice address as the PayPal request.

You can read more about the single nozzle board and the fitting instructions at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]. The dual nozzle board is similar except that it is wider at the top, has extra 2-pin connectors for the second heater and second thermistor, a 6-pin connector for the second hot end loom, and a second amber LED. Important note: using the unmodified Duet and DueX4 boards, there is a lot of noise on the second nozzle thermistor signal. I have attempted to reduce this on the dual nozzle board, however I still can't guarantee that the fan will stay off when both nozzles are cold, unless you make the modifications to the Duet and DueX4 described in my blog entry at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com].

So here are the prices including signed-for (and tracked for some countries) carriage and VAT, pre-paid by PayPal. The "Upgrade" price is for users who already have one of my IR+ultrasonic boards and therefore do not need the accessory kit (screws, socket shells, crimp pins and 4th wire). The upgrade price for the dual nozzle board includes everything except the 8-way connector, 4-way connector and white wire, so that you can continue to use your single-nozzle board on your single-nozzle print head.

 		 		UK  	EU   	EU ex VAT  Europe non EU   Rest of world
1-nozzle board + connectors	£49.67	£57.88	£48.23	   £48.23	   £49.30
1-nozzle board upgrade   	£43.47	£51.62	£43.01	   £43.01	   £44.06
2-nozzle board + connectors	£60.84	£69.15	£57.63	   £57.63	   £58.74
2-nozzle board upgrade      	£57.11	£65.40	£54.50	   £54.50	   £55.60

Please send me a PM if you want as price for 2 or more boards sent to the same address.

A couple of reminders:

1. If RRP get their single-nozzle multi-extruder mixing system working well and make it available, then you won't need 2 nozzles, and one of my single nozzle boards should work with it provided the mixing device doesn't get in the way of where it is mounted.

2. You will be able to use a dual-nozzle board on a single-nozzle print head if you add a wire from the unused thermistor connector to the main thermistor connector.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2014 12:40PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

All 10 of the 2-nozzle boards are now allocated. I'll start a waiting list in case anyone drops out or there is enough interest for me to make another 10.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I have now sent out the PayPal payment requests for all the single-nozzle board orders, except for two EU-non-VAT for which I am awaiting VAT number validation.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi David,

When do you expect to want payment for the 2 nozzle upgrade?

Paul

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Quote
appjaws1
Hi David,

When do you expect to want payment for the 2 nozzle upgrade?

Paul

My policy is not to ask for payment until I can give a delivery date. That will be when I have received the bare PCBs, assembled one of them, and it is working to my satisfaction. I expect this will be around the middle of next week.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

The new batch of single-nozzle boards arrived today, I also finished building the Mk.2 test rig.



I have already programmed and tested the first few, so I expect to start shipping them on Monday.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

All the paid-up single-nozzle board orders are now in the post, except for one that I have been asked to delay sending.

The bare PCBs for the dual-nozzle boards arrived today. I hope to assemble the first few of them tomorrow.

I have more single-nozzle boards available, but the dual-nozzle boards are all allocated.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2014 11:10AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I now have the first production 2-nozzle board working in my Ormerod:




The test rig software to handle 2-nozzle boards is also working. So I can start shipping them as soon as I can finish some more. I have another 2 boards already SMD-soldered, just needing the the through-hole parts fitted, which I will do tomorrow. The remaining boards may take a while longer, because due to other commitments I may not have time to assemble SMD components on the remaining 7 boards for a week or so.

I'll send Paypal requests shortly to the first two people who placed orders for dual-nozzle boards.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I shipped 5 dual-nozzle boards today and some more single-nozzle board. This means that all paid-up single- and dual-nozzle board orders have been shipped, except for one board which I have been asked to delay.

I still have 3 dual-nozzle boards to assemble. I will send the payment requests for those when I am ready to ship them, which will be a little under two weeks from now.

I have started a waiting list for the next batch of dual-nozzle boards. I currently have plenty of single-nozzle boards in stock. If you wish to order one, please see the first post in this thread.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

It has come to my attention that some people may have expressed interest in dual-nozzle boards in an old thread but may not be on my list of orders. I currently have the following on the list: alanbattersby, appjaws1, johneato, kscherf, marlbenn, monkeyiq. If you want a dual nozzle board but are not in that list, please PM me.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

In view of the demand for dual nozzle boards, I have ordered another ten PCBs. I hope to be able to build and test those by mid October.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2014 09:29AM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

For those still waiting for dual-nozzle boards:

- I will build the last 3 of the first batch (of 10) tomorrow and ship them either tomorrow or on Thursday.

- I am expecting a delivery of more bare PCBs in a few days time. So those on the waiting list should only have to wait another week or so.

I still have single-nozzle boards in stock.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I will be making another small batch of dual nozzle boards tomorrow. I have a few bare PCBs left, so if anyone else wants one, now is your chance to order one. It will probably be a while before I make any more dual nozzle boards because I have other work to get on with, including the touch-screen controller.

I still have some single nozzle boards in stock.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi,
I am awaiting delivery of one of your dual boards, but will be unable to upgrade to dual nozzles for a while. Can I at least make a start and use the dual board for my single nozzle set-up or does the board expect there to be two nozzles?

Alan

Hi alan,


i think this should be no problem.

Quote
alanbattersby
Hi,
I am awaiting delivery of one of your dual boards, but will be unable to upgrade to dual nozzles for a while. Can I at least make a start and use the dual board for my single nozzle set-up or does the board expect there to be two nozzles?

Alan

Yes, instructions for doing this are included at [miscsolutions.wordpress.com]. I haven't yet done a photo of the wring for this setup.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

hi dc42

I'm very interested in your board, I come from China, can be shipped to China?

If not, I want to ask a friend to help make this board, if there is an open source schematic and print map?

Thanks a lot

xiaoyao

Yes I can ship to China. Do you live in a city, with a reliable postal delivery service? I don't know whether you would have to pay any import taxes.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi David,

I have fitted my new 2 nozzle board but I am experiencing some problems.

1. When first switch on the active and standby temperatures are being set at 190 active and 150 standby and the hot end fan is starting and running constantly.
2. I set the temperatures to zero on the web interface and the temperatures are 28 Head 1 and 32 Head 2 but the hot end fan is still running.
3. Now and then the Heater 1 and/or the Heater 2 orange LED lights up causing the hot end temp not to fall below 30 degree on Head 2, Head 1 is now reading 15.2 and Head 2 32.1 - 37.4

I have disconnected the new board and re-connected my single nozzle differential LED hot end board and the fan switched off at 28 degrees and on at 35.

I then upgraded the firmware to 078t-dc42, reset everything but the issue is the same.

Any ideas as to what could be causing this? What could I try next?

Why would the temperatures be set at startup, heating the active nozzle and the standby nozzle to the temperatures set in the config file
M563 P1 D0 H1 ; Define tool 1
G10 P1 X6 Y0.35 Z0 S190 R160 ; Set tool 1 offset, operating and standby temperatures
M563 P2 D1 H2 ; Define tool 2
G10 P2 X-6 Y0 Z0 S190 R160 ; Set tool 2 offset, operating and standby temperatures

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Hi David,

I have fitted my new 2 nozzle board but I am experiencing some problems.

1. When first switch on the active and standby temperatures are being set at 190 active and 150 standby and the hot end fan is starting and running constantly.
2. I set the temperatures to zero on the web interface and the temperatures are 28 Head 1 and 32 Head 2 but the hot end fan is still running.
3. Now and then the Heater 1 and/or the Heater 2 orange LED lights up causing the hot end temp not to fall below 30 degree on Head 2, Head 1 is now reading 15.2 and Head 2 32.1 - 37.4

I have disconnected the new board and re-connected my single nozzle differential LED hot end board and the fan switched off at 28 degrees and on at 35.

I then upgraded the firmware to 078t-dc42, reset everything but the issue is the same.

Any ideas as to what could be causing this? What could I try next?

Why would the temperatures be set at startup, heating the active nozzle and the standby nozzle to the temperatures set in the config file
M563 P1 D0 H1 ; Define tool 1
G10 P1 X6 Y0.35 Z0 S190 R160 ; Set tool 1 offset, operating and standby temperatures
M563 P2 D1 H2 ; Define tool 2
G10 P2 X-6 Y0 Z0 S190 R160 ; Set tool 2 offset, operating and standby temperatures

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Hi David,

I have fitted my new 2 nozzle board but I am experiencing some problems.

1. When first switch on the active and standby temperatures are being set at 190 active and 150 standby and the hot end fan is starting and running constantly.
2. I set the temperatures to zero on the web interface and the temperatures are 28 Head 1 and 32 Head 2 but the hot end fan is still running.
3. Now and then the Heater 1 and/or the Heater 2 orange LED lights up causing the hot end temp not to fall below 30 degree on Head 2, Head 1 is now reading 15.2 and Head 2 32.1 - 37.4

I have disconnected the new board and re-connected my single nozzle differential LED hot end board and the fan switched off at 28 degrees and on at 35.

I then upgraded the firmware to 078t-dc42, reset everything but the issue is the same.

Any ideas as to what could be causing this? What could I try next?

Why would the temperatures be set at startup, heating the active nozzle and the standby nozzle to the temperatures set in the config file
M563 P1 D0 H1 ; Define tool 1
G10 P1 X6 Y0.35 Z0 S190 R160 ; Set tool 1 offset, operating and standby temperatures
M563 P2 D1 H2 ; Define tool 2
G10 P2 X-6 Y0 Z0 S190 R160 ; Set tool 2 offset, operating and standby temperatures

I have tried to adjust the Head2 temp by issuing M305 P1 H-50 or M305 P1 H-100 This does not work......

I have reported this before even with M305 P1 H-200 the displayed Head2 temp is fluctuating between 29 and 41

Any suggestiond?

Paul

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2014 11:26AM by appjaws1.

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Hi Paul, two thoughts:

- If you specify G10 with the S and R parameters in the config file, the firmware will set the active and standby temperatures right after you turn on your machine. So it's no surprise the heaters turn on right away and the fan starts spinning

- IIRC the Duex4 shares its AGND line with the normal GND, which is quite noisy, so you may be better off hacking an extra connector onto the Duet as dc42 did. I believe I saw a few photos on his blog a while ago showing his custom thermistor header glued to the Duet PCB.

Quote
zombiepantslol
Hi Paul, two thoughts:

- If you specify G10 with the S and R parameters in the config file, the firmware will set the active and standby temperatures right after you turn on your machine. So it's no surprise the heaters turn on right away and the fan starts spinning

- IIRC the Duex4 shares its AGND line with the normal GND, which is quite noisy, so you may be better off hacking an extra connector onto the Duet as dc42 did. I believe I saw a few photos on his blog a while ago showing his custom thermistor header glued to the Duet PCB.

Thanks for that.

I have changed the config file, so that solved the start up issue.

Is the fact that the X4 AGND is quite noisy the only thing that is causing the fan not to switch off and is hacking the main duet board the only solution to reducing this noise? Can it not be filtered somehow?
I may as well have stayed with the single nozzle board, which did turn off the fan, but only working on Head 1 temperature, and save myself £60.

Paul

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Hi Paul,

As zpl says, with those G10 commands in your config.g file, the hot end heaters will be activated as soon as you send a T1 or T2 command. I suggest you set the R and S parameters in your G10 commands in config.g to zero. Then in your slic3r start gcode, send those G10 commands with the temperatures you want in the R and S parameters. You can leave out the nozzle offsets in those G10 commands if you want, then they will remain at the values you set in config.g.

Also as zpl says, the DueX4 ground line is very noisy and this affects the reading from the second thermistor. It also causes the 2nd thermistor to read abnormally low occasionally, which is what is causing heater 2 to turn on sometimes even when the head 2 set temperature is zero. I think there is also some voltage drop on the +3.3V rail on the X4 compared to the analog reference on the Duet, and in conjunction with the low (1K) value of the thermistor series resistors on the Duet and X4, this causes thermistor 2 readings to be high (and seen as high by the hot end board too). I put a lot of hardware filtering on the thermistor 2 input and some more in the firmware too, but apparently on your system, the remaining noise and the voltage drop on the 3.3V line together are too much for the board so see a temperature below 35C reliably. I did warn in the original post about the dual nozzle boards that I couldn't guarantee that the fan would turn off unless the Duet/X4 combo was modified as I described in my blog post.

Short of modifying the Duet and X4, to reduce the ground noise you need to make the ground wire between the Duet and X4 12V power inputs as short and thick as possible.

On my system, the fan does turn off when the hot end is cold, however the hot end still reads 5 to 10C too high. I plan to modify the Duet and X4 further to eliminate this, by addressing the 3.3V supply issue, and I will publish the details on my blog when I am satisfied with it. It's a great shame that RRP didn't add provision for the Duet board to monitor additional thermistors without involving the X4, or at least used higher value thermistor series resistors.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2014 01:29PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

PS - if the voltage drop on the 3.3V rail on the X4 is a constant value, it could be compensated for by connecting a high value resistor between the +5V pin on the X4 expansion connector and the positive thermistor pin (which is the blue wire AFAIR). This would be a less intrusive modification. It wouldn't address the noise issue, but might be enough to correct the head 2 temperature reading and prevent the fan from turning on when the hot end is cold, given the filtering that I already implemented.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dc42
PS - if the voltage drop on the 3.3V rail on the X4 is a constant value, it could be compensated for by connecting a high value resistor between the +5V pin on the X4 expansion connector and the positive thermistor pin (which is the blue wire AFAIR). This would be a less intrusive modification. It wouldn't address the noise issue, but might be enough to correct the head 2 temperature reading and prevent the fan from turning on when the hot end is cold, given the filtering that I already implemented.

Thanks David,
What value of resistor would you recommend?
Paul

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appjaws - Core XYUV Duet Ethernet Duex5
firmware 3.1.1 Web Interface 3.1.1
Ormerod 1-converted to laser engraver, Duet wifi
OpenSCAD version 2020.07
slic3r-1.3.0, Simplify3D 4.1.2, Cura-4.4.1

Quote
appjaws1
What value of resistor would you recommend?

A back of the envelope calculation suggests that if the second hot end thermistor is reading 10C too high at 25C, then the extra voltage drop on the 3.3V line is 17mV and a 100K resistor to +5V would compensate for it. It sounds as though yours may be reading as much as 20C too high on average (but see my point at the end of this post), in which case you might need to lower the resistor to about 50K.

Adding that resistor will cause a slight error at higher temperatures, but that can be compensated using the M305 command to adjust the series resistance parameter. For example, if you use a 100K resistor, then the effective series resistance becomes 990 ohms instead of 1K. With a 50K resistor, the effective series resistor would be 980 ohms.

Please note: adding this resistor will compensate for the static temperature error (assuming the voltage drop on the 3.3V rail is constant), and that correction will apply to both the temperature reported by the Duet and the temperature measured by the hot end board. But it will do nothing to alter the noise on the thermistor signal. The hot end board contains a filter to reduce that noise, but the Duet board will still see the noise; therefore the temperature reported by the Duet will still fluctuate and the second hot end heater will still come on occasionally. I suggest you disconnect the second hot end heater when determining how much temperature correction is needed and hence what resistor to use, so that both hot end thermistors are at room temperature.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2014 05:15PM by dc42.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I have just completed building and testing 4 dual-nozzle hot end boards to meet the 3 orders I have. All 4 have passed tests, so I have one dual nozzle board in stock. After that, I have only 1 dual-nozzle PCB left.

I also have a handful of single-nozzle boards left. I probably won't be making any more, rather I will open-source the complete design including PCB files.

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Hi Dave. If the 4th dual nozzle board is still unallocated, may I request it?

Quote
steve0-uk
Hi Dave. If the 4th dual nozzle board is still unallocated, may I request it?

Yes it's still available and I have reserved it for you. To order, please send me a PM as descrbed in the 4th paragraph of [forums.reprap.org].

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Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].