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Printing ABS

Posted by Fpex 
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Fpex
Printing ABS
December 02, 2014 02:23PM
I would like to make sure my ormerod2 can print abs without softening of pla parts.
Which parts should I print in abs (with another printer) to replace the original pla parts for this? I hope not all ....

Thanks.
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dc42
Re: Printing ABS
December 02, 2014 02:31PM
See [reprappro.com].


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Fpex
Re: Printing ABS
December 02, 2014 02:33PM
Thanks!
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 02, 2014 02:53PM
I printed these parts without any problems with the ditto PLA parts...and raised the x-axis way up high while heading the bed to 110C and zeroed just before the print, may also be a good idea to print the extruder in ABS



Erik
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Fpex
Re: Printing ABS
December 02, 2014 03:12PM
The extruder? I thought it is not close to excessive heat.
It would be great if the aluminium parts of Dave would be available already before I adjust the printer. But It does not look likely.
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 03, 2014 03:14AM
Quote
Fpex
..The extruder? I thought it is not close to excessive heat

It don't have to be a problem, but you may want to shield the printer from draft (to prevent warping) and that will raise the temperature for the extruder, you don't want the extruder to swing down and block the bearing on the x-runner and that is what I could see happen

Yet another great thing about Dave's alu x-axis - it don't "suck" heat from the heatbed as much as the black body acryl rib and it distribute the heat much better



Erik
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Fpex
Re: Printing ABS
December 03, 2014 12:43PM
That alu axis is more than wished :-)
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 03, 2014 01:19PM
Quote
Fpex
That alu axis is more than wished :-)

Yes a most important upgrade - I nearly lost the rest of my sanity over that always moving acrylic rib last Christmas, the first part was lost over the always moving MDF bed..the Ormerod2 bed and bed support is fine as far as I can see from the documentation, the bed material, bearings near the extrusion, belt fixture and 3-point adjusting instead of 4 is much better

Ding-Ding paging Dr. Davek0974 :-)

Erik
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Fpex
Re: Printing ABS
December 03, 2014 02:58PM
He waiting for quotes for the ormerod alu kit. And that kit is the reason why I keep,putting off mounting the ormerod 2.
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Ludo91
Re: Printing ABS
December 05, 2014 06:00AM
I actually made a little mod just ONE PIECE to replace to my ormerod and am printing a LOT of ABS with no problems and excellent results. No cardboard, no overvolting no noothing.

Here is the thread [forums.reprap.org]
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Mick747
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 07:56AM
Hi guys. I have a question about printing in ABS. I have done ok so far but on big parts i get the ends on the X axis plane lifting every time. This i believe is due to the fan venting out through the heatsink along this axis.
I have the V2 Ormerod with the acrylic spacer. Is there a mod i can do to get this airflow removed as i dont believe you even need the fan running with ABS, Would i be right in thinking that or do i need to get some sort of diverter that will fit the V2 with acrylic spacer?

Many Thanks.
Mick.
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dc42
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 08:42AM
You do need to have the fan running, it's essential to keep the top end of the nozzle cool so that the filament doesn't melt too high up. So I suggest you print a diverter, to divert the exhaust air from the heatsink upwards. You could print the heartsink duct and the modified fan duct with a chimney that some people are using, but it's overkill. As a temporary measure, cardboard and sticky tape may suffice.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Mick747
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 11:30AM
Many thanks for the help DC42. I have one other slight issue as well. can you see in the pictures i have attached i get a slight bulge in the walls every so often and in different areas. Is this easily fixed ?

Many thanks
Mick



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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 12:35PM
Quote
Mick747
... i get a slight bulge in the walls every so often and in different areas. Is this easily fixed ?..

Nice printing! - my guess is the bulges are from layer change (shifting around the model in sequences) and you should retract the filament a little bit more

Erik
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Mick747
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 12:38PM
Many thanks Erik.

I will try altering the retraction settings until i get rid of the issue then.

Once again thanks for all the help :-)

Mick.
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dc42
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 04:49PM
I agree, I think the bulges are due to layer change. Increase retraction to 4mm if you have not already done so. Also, check the setting for Seam Position in Print Settings -> Layers and perimeters -> Advanced. I have it set to Random.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2014 04:50PM by dc42.


Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].
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Mick747
Re: Printing ABS
December 06, 2014 04:58PM
Thanks DC42.
I had retraction set to 4mm so now have changed it to 5mm and have set the seam position to random and will see how those changes alter my prints.

Many thanks for all the help.

Mick.
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Crouchy
Re: Printing ABS
December 07, 2014 02:42AM
I had a similar bulge on my prints which i attributed to the nozzle resting on the print while the extruder retracted between layers. Last night I changed a number of settings;

- I turned on "wipe while retracting"
- I set "seam position" to "random" and
- turned off "retract on layer change".

The next print was much better.
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Jon Steward
Re: Printing ABS
December 07, 2014 05:00AM
When printing with ABS (I've just started) I notice a 'pop' every once in a while from the nozzle as the filament gets extruded.
Doesn't seem to effect the print.
I assume I have the nozzle temp to high (240)
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 07, 2014 05:59AM
Quote
Jon Steward
When printing with ABS (I've just started) I notice a 'pop' every once in a while from the nozzle as the filament gets extruded...

Could be you filament is hollow - cut the filament with a sharp razer blade, look at the end surface though a magnifying glass, do you see a tiny hole? - do you see water in that hole?
I know I have a close-up of just that from another poster...but where?

Edit: Oh there it is, was posted by tru168, thank you for that awesome picture!
[forums.reprap.org]



You could try extruding some filament in free-fall, if hollow it may look like this:



..and the surface of your print may look like this, not a big problem, but you may have to retract a fair bit more because of the expanding air/water in the filament



Erik

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2014 06:15AM by ormerod168.
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Jon Steward
Re: Printing ABS
December 08, 2014 12:36PM
Thankfully it's not quite as bad as that green seaweed in your photo!
Looks like I have just the odd air bubble in the filament which pops and leaves a very small gap in the filament trail.
I don't expect perfect filament from cheap ebay sellers.
I did recently get some bad PLA from a different ebay seller to my usual which has random flat spots which get stuck in the extruder and stops the flow, so when doing a long print, has failed annoyingly after a few hours.
Any do's and don't when printing ABS on to glass?
Currently I'm having success with 240 nozzle and 110 bed wiped with vinegar. (although I am seeing some corners lifting a little)
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dmould
Re: Printing ABS
December 08, 2014 12:56PM
Quote
Jon Steward
Thankfully it's not quite as bad as that green seaweed in your photo!
Looks like I have just the odd air bubble in the filament which pops and leaves a very small gap in the filament trail.
I don't expect perfect filament from cheap ebay sellers.
I did recently get some bad PLA from a different ebay seller to my usual which has random flat spots which get stuck in the extruder and stops the flow, so when doing a long print, has failed annoyingly after a few hours.
Any do's and don't when printing ABS on to glass?
Currently I'm having success with 240 nozzle and 110 bed wiped with vinegar. (although I am seeing some corners lifting a little)

You are lucky to get ABS to stick to plain glass, I have never managed that. Warping is certainly a bigger issue with ABS than PLA, and you may need to coat the glass with ABS/acetone juice or solvent cement if the corners lift too much. Warping can also be caused by draughts, so keep the printer shielded. Some shapes are very difficult to print without warping, but could be printed in 2 or more sections and chemically welded together with some acetone. Round corners tend to warp less than square corners.

Dave
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 08, 2014 01:48PM
Quote
Jon Steward
Any do's and don't when printing ABS on to glass?
Currently I'm having success with 240 nozzle and 110 bed wiped with vinegar. (although I am seeing some corners lifting a little)

Never did try on clean glass so no, but that would be preferable as it will leave a nicer finish, I use a mix of dissolved ABS bits and acetone, its kind of messy to use and not easy to apply as it dries very fast - but it works for me and better that kapton tape, kapton tape will stick to the ABS print just fine but the print will often rip the tape of the glass

My theory is that the ABS/acetone mix (at bed temp 110C) works by allowing the print to shrink/slide along the surface but not letting go

So nothing to ad, just general advice, ad a brim, build a simple "heat chamber" to keep the temperature up a bit and to prevent any draft from the surrounding, let the print cool down very slow

Erik
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VortyZA
Re: Printing ABS
December 09, 2014 02:14AM
Quote
Jon Steward
When printing with ABS (I've just started) I notice a 'pop' every once in a while from the nozzle as the filament gets extruded.
Doesn't seem to effect the print.
I assume I have the nozzle temp to high (240)

ABS is rather hygroscopic - absorbs moisture from the air. This ends up inside the filament and when the moisture hits the hotend it turns to steam fairly quickly - this causes a bubble of plastic that pops, pushing the plastic being extruded in all directions.
It can be seen on the output print as a small 'hole' in the print followed by a slight over extrusion. Not normally a crisis, but it can ruin a beautiful finish.

Keep your filament in an air-tight bag with some desiccant. Some materials are worse than others - Nylon is terrible for moisture but even PLA will build up moisture over time.
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Jon Steward
Re: Printing ABS
December 09, 2014 01:08PM
I've attached a photo of the ABS extruder printed directly onto glass. I hope I wasn't just lucky, having read the lengths people go to with acetone and abs mixes etc maybe I was. I printed at 120 for the first layer then 110 for the rest. At 90 the print pulled free from the bed. 110 looks about right for the moment.
It's important to print a x carriage first in ABS as this fails rapidly. I'm on my second PLA carriage and that's not looking too good.
Though I have now got 2 spare ABS x carriage and an ABS extruder now.
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Attachments:
open | download - ABS Extruder1.jpg (141.6 KB)
Mick747
Re: Printing ABS
December 09, 2014 01:15PM
Hi Jon.

I noticed you have no aluminium plate on top of the heated board and instead you have the glass directly on it. Is this another mod?

I have the Ormerod V2 and wondered if this is something i can do and also what benefit does it give?

Many Thanks.
Mick.
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 09, 2014 01:42PM
Quote
Jon Steward
I've attached a photo of the ABS extruder printed directly onto glass. I hope I wasn't just lucky

Congrats with that, looking good!, will have to try that next ABS print

Quote

It's important to print a x carriage first in ABS as this fails rapidly. I'm on my second PLA carriage and that's not looking too good.
Though I have now got 2 spare ABS x carriage and an ABS extruder now.

Did you print the x-carriage on glass too? - and with no brim?, its rather high print that might slip and tip over

Erik
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ormerod168
Re: Printing ABS
December 09, 2014 02:01PM
Quote
Mick747
..I have the Ormerod V2 and wondered if this is something i can do and also what benefit does it give?

Many Thanks.
Mick.

Or you could ask what benefit did the aluminium plate give - I saw non whatsoever and removed it long ago, benefits, lighter bed, nothing to disturb the flatness of the glass, less risk of shorting and roasting the duet

..I put it to good use for a while, moved it down on top of the MDF bed as support for the always moving and sagging corners (ormerod1) - now its integrated in a new Y carriage assembly



Erik
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Mick747
Re: Printing ABS
December 09, 2014 02:05PM
Quote
ormerod168
Quote
Mick747
..I have the Ormerod V2 and wondered if this is something i can do and also what benefit does it give?

Many Thanks.
Mick.

Or you could ask what benefit did the aluminium plate give - I saw non whatsoever and removed it long ago, benefits, lighter bed, nothing to disturb the flatness of the glass, less risk of shorting and roasting the duet

..I put it to good use for a while, moved it down on top of the MDF bed as support for the always moving and sagging corners (ormerod1) - now its integrated in a new Y carriage assembly

[attachment 44929 alubed.JPG]

Erik

Very nice Erik.
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Jon Steward
Re: Printing ABS
December 10, 2014 02:18AM
Quote
ormerod168

Did you print the x-carriage on glass too? - and with no brim?, its rather high print that might slip and tip over

Erik

I must be really lucky as I've now managed to print off 3 ABS x carriages directly to glass.
Using 240 nozzle, 120 bed for first layer then 110 for the rest. I get a smooth flat base, no upturned corners.
Just need to get the extruder to deliver the filament better to improve the overall finish which is a little lumpy. So more fiddling with the print control required. I'll see what a 5 mm retraction does on my next print.
I do run at 40% speed for the first layer then increase up in a couple of increments to 120% or more if I'm in a rush.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 02:23AM by Jon Steward.
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Attachments:
open | download - ABS x carriage.jpg (124.7 KB)
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