Hi,

I have now gained a bit of experience now (fairly new user) and have calibrated and fixed some problems but I'm really stuck on this one.

What happens is that after some time the filament stops being fed into the nozzle. I have examined the filament and it seems that the hobbed insert has eventually filed the filament. So this is what I have tried so far.

1) Removed bowden tube from the Quick-set nozzle, heated up the nozzle and tried manually to extrude some filament. No problem there, minimum pressure applied - also after removing the filament the nozzle looks as clean as new.
2) Extruded/extracted filament into the bowden tube to see if any slippage occurs. Also applied a bit of opposite force during this process (both ways) just to see if any slippage will occur. No problem there.
3) Removed the extruder and cleaned the hobbed insert. OK, a bit of debree there but cleaning didn't change anything.
4) While printing I manually unrolled the filament so that no extra force was needed by the extruder motor. Still problem occurs
5) Increased motor current limit from 800 to 1000. Sadly no change.
6) Increased nozzle temperature from 200 to 215 just in case reported temp was too low. Still no improvement.
7) Perform auto bed leveling before starting a new print, but this doesn't help either.

I'm using 1.09o-dc42 firmware, web interface, windows 8.1. It's an ormerod 2 I bought in October 2015.

All calibrations done, except z-axis because I cannot print that much! Also z-axis movements from the web interface seem to be very smooth and without any visible problem.

Maybe z-axis too close to bed? But it never happens on first layer, usually after 3-5 mm of height or so.

I'm using the esun 1.75mm white filament I got with the printer.

Any thoughts?

I'm really stuck :-(

Quote
kpapr1
1) Removed bowden tube from the Quick-set nozzle, heated up the nozzle and tried manually to extrude some filament.

or just turn of the extruder motor (holding current) by sending..

M84 P3 E0:1

..and then turn the extruders big wheel by hand, this should give you a good feeling of how much force is needed with different nozzle temperatures and speed

The Ormerod extruder should AFAIR keep the grip on the filament up to motor current 1000mA (I'm using a springloaded extruder now)

How do the tracks on the filament from the hobbed wheel look? - here's from mine



..and you did remember to put in the bearing apposing the hobbed wheel? (don't laugh, it has happened)

Erik

Hi Eric,

My filament looks just like yours, except of course the parts where it has been filed by the hobbed part. The bearing is there, too. I also turned the extruder big gear by hand and it runs smoothly (with e-motors off). I had problem with this in the past but I filed the gears and now it is very smooth.

When you home Z, place a piece of paper under the nozzle

Can you just about pull the piece of paper out?

Could be that your first layer is too low, causing the nozzle to back-up to a point where it cools and then blocking the nozzle causing the filament to jam the stepper

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2016 02:44PM by orictosh.

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Supporting 3D Printers with Parts and Build services.
Printer: Ormerod 2 (528.4) Duel extruder set-up with Aluminium X-Rib, RRPro Firmware v1.11-ch (2016-04-08)

Do the hobbed wheel run true ? - the extruder axle (the 3mm screw) is a bit undersized so the bearings may not be centered, also is the nut tight against the bearing?



to test that you can hold the unit in a wise or between the jaws of a caliber and let it spin



Erik

The hobbed wheel spins freely. I will check the z-axis again tomorrow - too late now - and report back. Maybe it needs calibration after a few crashes while upgrading to the new firmware 1.09o-dc42.

Thank you all for your input :-)

OK, I re-adjusted the z-axis and it proved to be a bit too low, so everything is fine now at last :-)

Thank you all for your help!

What happened? Seems like the last 2 posts from me and fotomas are deleted...

Anyway, the thing is that after a successful "coat hanger" print the problem has come back. The first layer looks very thin by the way so I increased the extruder percent from 100% to 110% on the fly, but I now think that's not the way to solve the problem. Any ideas? Maybe try to increase z height a bit more? So, should I alter my config file from

"G31 Z1.5 P606" to say "G31 Z2.0 P606" ?????

Is this the right way to do it?

No the opposite direction. If your skirt and your first layer is too thin then the nozzle is probably to close to the bed. So you should decrease the value.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Great, thanks, so I will try G31 Z1.0 P606 and see if this makes things any better.

You will have to find the right value. Depending on your surface it must be within 0.1mm or even less.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

The thing is that I followed the instructions:

I placed a piece of paper under the nozzle and lowered the head until I could just pull the paper. Then I zeroed the Z-axis and increased the height until the IR sensor read around 600. This procedure gave me Z1.50 P606 but it seems it's not right. I also do an auto bed calibration before every print.

This paper method never worked for me. So I tested until it was good.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I'll do the same then :-)

I re-calibrated the z-axis: I lowered the nozzle until it just touched the bed, then cleared the z-axis value, then lifted the z-axis until I got a reading of 606. This gave me a value of Z1.2 (from 1.5) and I put this value into the config.g

I then tried to print the ormaxis but again failed on 1st or second layer.

Then I tried to print one of my designs and it again failed on layer 2/3 or something like that. I don't know what else to do now. Maybe try another firmware? (I'm using 1.09o-dc42). Please help. I have attached photos of my design.

from the pictures it seems like your Glass has a "bump" in the middle , that might be the couse of your problem, or the auto bed compensation is at foult( bad readings) do you use stock sensor or DC42s? what does it looklike withought auto bed compensation?

I haven't tried without bed compensation, I will do so now and report back. I also remember of having a successful print of a volume knob (not very good quality at that time due to other problems) with stock firmware 1.09. So I will try without bed compensation and if that fails I will try another firmware, maybe 1.09m-dc42?

But the coat hanger did print nicely with current firmware and bed compensation...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2016 07:51AM by kpapr1.

Do you use 4 or 5 probe positions?
BTW it is also a good idea to include the skirt at your pictures.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
Treito
Do you use 4 or 5 probe positions?
BTW it is also a good idea to include the skirt at your pictures.

5 point is dc's probe only ,reason i was asking which probe he uses couse i see he is using black surface ,stock sensor will not read right hight on black surface i think, DCs should work normaly.

But if the sensor is getting the fifth probe wrong he could end up in his situation.

Btw I watched a general problem with ABL but I do not know, how to describe it in words.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I use 4-point probing and I always include the skirt. I also use stock IR sensor. Also there's no bump on the glass maybe a small gap from the kapton tape but no overlap.

I switched to 1.09m-dc42 now... same result... tried also without bed compensation... same result.

I'm deeply disappointed as I don't understand what the problem is and every time I have to retract the filament clean everything put back the filament, do a small hot extrusion to make shure the nozzle is not clogged... really tired now after a week of doing the same thing.

My config.g

; Ormerod 2 config file for dc42 Duet firmware
M111 S0 ; Debug off
M550 Pormerod2 ; Machine name (can be anything you like). With DHCP enabled connect to (example) [reprapproormerod2] (machine name with no spaces).
M551 Preprap ; Machine password (currently not used)
M540 P0xBE:0xEF:0xDE:0xAD:0xFE:0xED ; MAC Address
;M552 P0.0.0.0 ; Un-comment for DHCP
M552 P192.168.1.14 ; IP address, comment for DHCP
M553 P255.255.255.0 ; Netmask
M554 P192.168.1.1 ; Gateway, comment for DHCP
M555 P2 ; Set output to look like Marlin
M575 P1 B57600 S1 ; Comms parameters for PanelDue

G21 ; Work in millimetres
G90 ; Send absolute coordinates...
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
M574 X0 Y1 Z0 S1 ; set endstop configuration (Y endstop only, at low end, active high)
M906 X800 Y1000 Z800 E900 ; Set motor currents (mA)
M563 P0 D0 H1 ; Define tool 0
G10 P0 S-273 R-273 ; Set tool 0 operating and standby temperatures
M92 E431 ; Set extruder steps per mm (single nozzle)

M558 P1 ; Use a simple modulated Z probe (change to P1 for an intelligent Z probe)
G31 Z1.0 P606 ; Set the probe height and threshold (put your own values here)

;*** If you have a Duet board with 4.7K thermistor series resistors, change R1000 to R4700 to the following M305 commands
M305 P0 R4700 ; Put your own H and/or L values here to set the bed thermistor ADC correction
M305 P1 R4700 ; Put your own H and/or L values here to set the first nozzle thermistor ADC correction


;*** Adjust the XY coordinates in the following M557 commands to suit your build and the position of the IR sensor

M557 P0 X65 Y5 ; Four
M557 P1 X229 Y5 ; probe points
M557 P2 X229 Y188 ; for bed
M557 P3 X65 Y188 ; levelling

;*** if you are using axis compensation, put the figures in the following command

M556 S75 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Axis compensation here
M201 X500 Y500 Z15 E500 ; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
M203 X15000 Y15000 Z100 E3600 ; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
M566 X200 Y200 Z30 E20 ; Minimum speeds mm/minute

;M208 X216 Y214 ; set axis maxima (adjust to suit your machine)
M208 X-10 Y-7 S1 ; set axis minimum (adjust to make X=0 the edge of the bed)

T0 ; select first hot end

I mean include the skirt at your pictures. Some problems could be better identified if you can take a look at the skirt.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

OK, this is my last print with the skirt.

Quote
kpapr1
I haven't tried without bed compensation, I will do so now and report back...

without bed compensation you can still get rid of the "bump" by running a macro file (text file), this example is for removing a 0.08mm "bump" at the middle of the glass, insert you own value, name the macro file e.g Set Comp:

G30 P0 X0 Y0 Z0.0
G30 P1 X0 Y200 Z0.0
G30 P2 X200 Y200 Z0.0
G30 P3 X200 Y0 Z0.0
G30 P4 X100 Y100 Z0.08 S

When you move the nozzle you will see the threaded rod turn and lift the nozzle a bit as it approach the center of the bed

To reset the compensation make another macro file and name it e.g. Reset Comp:

M561 (reset compensation zero)
M556 S100 X0 Y0 Z0 (resets all orthogonal axis compensation to zero)

Also a higher first layer height will be more forgiving if the printing bed is not perfect



Ditto a higher first layer width will help in making the first layer stick to the bed



Erik

I guess that there is a problem with your Kapton tape strips. It's not allowed that they overlap. A small gap is allowed. Your gap at one position is nearly too big, but at the center of the bed is more than one overlap. That ruins every print.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Like I said there's no bump, it may look like it in the pic but it's actually a very very small gap between the kapton tape. I use slic3r's default first layer value which is 200%

Quote
kpapr1
.. Also there's no bump on the glass maybe a small gap from the kapton tape but no overlap..

Lets call it a virtual "bump" seen from the nozzle's point of view then - and there usually is one at the middle of the glass, either the glass is bulging a bit because of the heat or the nozzle bending down a bit because of the force from the bowden cable (the force down of the nozzle is greatest where the bowden cable is bend the most)

dc42 explains it better:

Quote
dc42
When I looked into this a few months ago, I discovered there were two causes of this issue:

1. A very slight doming of the glass, because it is clamped at the corners. This effect is small, perhaps 0.05 to 0.1mm. Using 4mm glass instead of 3mm instead should reduce it by more than half.

2. The main contribution is the hot end angle varying along the x-axis. One cause of this is the varying sideways force exerted by the Bowden tube on the hot end, which pushes the hot end sideways and the nozzle down harder in the middle of the x-axis than at the ends. Another cause can be a wave in the acrylic x-plate.

I've been wondering whether it would be worth implementing 5-point bed compensation (i.e. 4 corners + the middle) or 9-point (4 corners, 4 edges + middle) in the firmware, which is a possibility when using a z-probe that works anywhere on the bed, such as my differential IR board.

[forums.reprap.org]

Erik

So if I move the z-axis say 0.1mm or 0.2mm away from the glass but at the side of it and then move the head towards the middle of the glass, you say that at some point the nozzle will touch the glass? I will try this now. And if this happens is it solved using 5-point probing? If so I can remove a few kapton tape stripes and add a fifth piece of paper.

If your X-arm is twisted, this may be an option for you: [reprap.org] Or even better: Get one of DaveK's alu X-arm replacements, I've never had this problem since I mounted it.