Maximum temperature for PTFE-liner?

My Printbite is now Probably 3 months old and as I say I have had no issues with it however in is stuck directly to a 6mm Thick piece of Alluminium Machine Cast tooling plate so is perfectly flat and stable.

Pei can be obtained in quite thick pieces and I got some from Amazon.Com (USA) for about 16$ us I think it was for a 305x305 sheet that is 0.8 mm thick so is quite durable but that was the largest size I could find that would ship over seas

PEI Sheet this one is 305x305 x1.0 and is $20 shipped (It can be cut using a good pair of Scissors)

Doug

Happy to report that my PrintBite arrived today. It is thinner than I had imagined, which is a good thing because I suspect that I will be able to cut it fairly easily with a pair of tinsnips or a sharp knife. Like Doug I will be mounting it on a thick aluminium plate, probably over the coming weekend.

Dave

Good luck so you have probably the newer version with better adhesion.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Just ordered this to stick it on with, though I cannot find any temperature information, so I'll have to find out how well it is going to survive ABS bed temperatures!
[www.amazon.co.uk]

Dave

3M 467MP would have been suitable.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
dmould
Just ordered this to stick it on with, though I cannot find any temperature information, so I'll have to find out how well it is going to survive ABS bed temperatures!
[www.amazon.co.uk]

Dave

Dave go to Stickytapes.com web site and look for 3m8153 use discount code sticky25 for a 25% discount 8153 is a step or 2 up from 468 which is up from 467.

Be warned it is gossamer thin and sticks like the proverbial Sxxx to a Blanket make sure both surfaces are very clean I used acetone on both and a credit card to smooth it all out is also usefull and don't forget to heat cycle it before trying to print think I gave mine 2 cycles but might have been 3 and mine has discoloured slightly which is what is expected.

There is a good instruction sheet on their webpage.

Doug

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2016 11:03AM by dougal1957.

Quote
dmould
Just ordered this to stick it on with, though I cannot find any temperature information, so I'll have to find out how well it is going to survive ABS bed temperatures!
[www.amazon.co.uk]

Dave

You can find the specs on the web sites of 3M and some of their resellers. I advise against using an adhesive with unknown temperature characteristics. Use 3M 8153LE or 468MP.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Quote
dougal1957

Quote
dmould
Just ordered this to stick it on with, though I cannot find any temperature information, so I'll have to find out how well it is going to survive ABS bed temperatures!
[www.amazon.co.uk]

Dave

Dave go to Stickytapes.com web site and look for 3m8153 use discount code sticky25 for a 25% discount 8153 is a step or 2 up from 468 which is up from 467.

Be warned it is gossamer thin and sticks like the proverbial Sxxx to a Blanket make sure both surfaces are very clean I used acetone on both and a credit card to smooth it all out is also usefull and don't forget to heat cycle it before trying to print think I gave mine 2 cycles but might have been 3 and mine has discoloured slightly which is what is expected.

There is a good instruction sheet on their webpage.

Doug

Couldn't find that product on that site, but it caused me to look at the 3M web site that has product datasheets. The product you recommend (8153) is in the same family and uses exactly the same adhesive (acrylic 300LSE) as the product I bought (8071). While the 3M site strangely does not list the 8071 product, the main differences AFAICS between the various products in this category is the substrate thickness, the format (tape or sheet) and the type of liner (the backing film that you remove and discard). AFAICS the substrate thickness should not be important so long as it is thinner than about 0.2mm (i.e. not foam), and the type of backing material is irrelevant to us. The datasheet from 3M ( [multimedia.3m.com] ) seems to apply to all double-sided tape products that use that adhesive, and quotes a long-term max temperature of 93 deg C and a short term (minutes, hours) max temperature of 149 deg C, so all the recommended tapes that use that adhesive are possibly a little under-rated for this application, though as we do not require a particularly high bond strength I suspect it will be adequate and that appears to be confirmed by people using such tapes with no issues.

As I probably won't get another product delivered before the weekend, I'll therefore take a chance and go ahead with the one I bought. The risk AFAICS is in the tape failing prematurely (which should be obvious) rather than it causing any differences with the print - I don't see that there will be any appreciable temperature drop across the tape.

Dave

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2016 07:51AM by dmould.

Quote
dmould

Quote
dougal1957

Quote
dmould
Just ordered this to stick it on with, though I cannot find any temperature information, so I'll have to find out how well it is going to survive ABS bed temperatures!
[www.amazon.co.uk]

Dave

Dave go to Stickytapes.com web site and look for 3m8153 use discount code sticky25 for a 25% discount 8153 is a step or 2 up from 468 which is up from 467.

Be warned it is gossamer thin and sticks like the proverbial Sxxx to a Blanket make sure both surfaces are very clean I used acetone on both and a credit card to smooth it all out is also usefull and don't forget to heat cycle it before trying to print think I gave mine 2 cycles but might have been 3 and mine has discoloured slightly which is what is expected.

There is a good instruction sheet on their webpage.

Doug

Couldn't find that product on that site, but it caused me to look at the 3M web site that has product datasheets. The product you recommend (8153) is in the same family and uses exactly the same adhesive (acrylic 300LSE) as the product I bought (8071). While the 3M site strangely does not list the 8071 product, the main differences AFAICS between the various products in this category is the substrate thickness, the format (tape or sheet) and the type of liner (the backing film that you remove and discard). AFAICS the substrate thickness should not be important so long as it is thinner than about 0.2mm (i.e. not foam), and the type of backing material is irrelevant to us. The datasheet from 3M ( [multimedia.3m.com] ) seems to apply to all double-sided tape products that use that adhesive, and quotes a long-term max temperature of 93 deg C and a short term (minutes, hours) max temperature of 149 deg C, so all the recommended tapes that use that adhesive are possibly a little under-rated for this application, though as we do not require a particularly high bond strength I suspect it will be adequate and that appears to be confirmed by people using such tapes with no issues.

As I probably won't get another product delivered before the weekend, I'll therefore take a chance and go ahead with the one I bought. The risk AFAICS is in the tape failing prematurely (which should be obvious) rather than it causing any differences with the print - I don't see that there will be any appreciable temperature drop across the tape.

Dave

3M 8153 sheets

There you go

Doug

One of my PrintBite was applied with a testing adhesive that failed. The only problem I got was that the PrintBite didn't stick well on the glass anymore and I got air bubbles which began to grow.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
dmould
Just ordered this to stick it on with, though I cannot find any temperature information, so I'll have to find out how well it is going to survive ABS bed temperatures!
[www.amazon.co.uk]

Dave

Why? Adhesive is attached to PrintBite - Remove the white backing sheet

The claim about microcracks is complete fantasy.

Context - I released PrintBite. Filafarm guy contacts me demanding I increase my prices to same as his product. Stated if I didnt he would reduce his pricing, "destroy me" and then put his prices back up. He gave me two weeks to do this! Yes I was astonished by this! A week later on Skype he continued to demand I reduce pricing, lectured me in business practices and called customers "stupid". He tried to explain customers should pay more for products like "ours". Moments after skype message conversation ended he deleted ALL his messages, why?

He has registered multiple identities in german online groups in order to spread false claims (as with microcracks) about PrintBite. It is pretty obvious the "other users" are him given the exact same lexicon and phrasiology.

I had one german user that had issues (initials AB ), he complained, we assessed, I sent him a new piece reiterating instructions (his wasnt fully adhered) - since received a very nice email from him, and orders from others by way of his direct recommendation to them. He had also used Filaprint and Pertinax.

No one has reported microcracks as it simply doesnt happen. I sell a good product at the lowest possible prices and absolutely stand by my product and customers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2016 12:03AM by Mutley3D.

Quote
Filafarm

Quote
Treito
For PLA it works quite good, but I still have trouble with little warping with PLA.
For ABS it works with the above settings and nearly no warping.
You need high temperatures especially for the first layer.
It is based on FR4, but the sticking is much better.
PrintBite is robust but very sensitive regarding the cleaner you use. Probably I have destroyed one, but it was not mentioned that you are not allowed to use special industrial cleaners. Only pure glass cleaner and Acetone seems to be okay.
However in Germany there is a surface called FilaPrint. As far as I know this surface should work better and gives a shiny surface without structures, but the price is nearly twice.
I think think I will give it a try next month.

Hello Treito,

not only you have problems with it. in the German groups more and more Users got troubles. The surface seems to get micro cracks after several month. im pretty shure you can see it under a microscope.
I know a handfull of people that have same issues now after less than 5 month, many removed it.
Same will happen with FR4 after few month, also dont forget, FR4 is not healthy when heated. It is Epoxy.

Compared to any other printsurface i have tested, FilaPrint will last easily 5 years and is safe. We have printed more than a ton of mixed filament on one single FilaPrint. No cleaning necessary at all. Even Polycarbonate is printable and most other filaments too.
Good products will always establish earlier or later. We started 2013 selling FilaPrint.
You can be ashure. once i have a better surface in my hands of course i will setup our printers with it and offer a new better product.
But after 5 years i can guarantee - there is no.


best
Daniel

Your bang out of order coming here trying to slate some other person product trying to sell your own full stop end of conversation, treito your issue with warping if your printing abs are printing in a build chamber? if not theres your issue

---

Check my rubbish blog for my prusa i3

up and running
[3dimetech.blogspot.co.uk]

Jason I don't think that this is the right place and the right content to publish here.
If you have personally problems with him so talk with him and only with him.
Your text isn't showing a good behaviour for a sales man and now I don't want to see anything like this here in the misleaded thread.
Discussion closed.

Chris33
My main problem is not the warping. It's the less stickiness. BuildTak. Kapton tape and FilaPrint do a much better job.

To be fair: It seems that there was recently a change of the production process (I can imagine what it is) and I will get a new sheet for testing purposes the next days.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
Treito
Jason I don't think that this is the right place and the right content to publish here.
If you have personally problems with him so talk with him and only with him.
Your text isn't showing a good behaviour for a sales man and now I don't want to see anything like this here in the misleaded thread.
Discussion closed.

Chris33
My main problem is not the warping. It's the less stickiness. BuildTak. Kapton tape and FilaPrint do a much better job.

To be fair: It seems that there was recently a change of the production process (I can imagine what it is) and I will get a new sheet for testing purposes the next days.

Trieto, I agree it is not the right place for it. Sadly it had to be done.

Microcracks simply dont occur. It is not unreasonable to respond to a comment deliberately aimed at descrediting my product in a public forum, in the same public forum!

You didnt want to apply and remove a weak acetone abs mix in a one time application, yet you wanted to keep using carcinogenic brake cleaner. For some reason you simply didnt want to follow any advice I offered. All I can do now is give up trying to offer you support.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2016 12:46AM by Mutley3D.

No this was too far. Sorry, but at least it's not good for yourself.
There was maybe a lie, but to post the complete problems with yourselves which nobody can check here if it's true or not isn't the right way. At least the other one wins.
, but my English is not good enough for a detailed explanation.
Discussion closed.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

As reported in this thread, plenty have no problems with PrintBite. 99% of customers very happy. But one cant please everyone is an old saying.

With several resellers I let those resellers make their own mind up based on their own testing of PB.

Someone else posting lies about PB is too far. I have a responsibility to correct innaccurate information. I didnt start, i only respond and provide context so others can decide based on all facts.

Yes they can check, and yes I can prove. I do not post lies or untruths. I have honour and integrity.

I work very hard and provide dedicated support and service to all my customers who are very happy with what I supply to them, at a very reasonable cost.

Yes discussion closed.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2016 12:06AM by Mutley3D.

Going back to original topic - there are many manufacturers and suppliers of PTFE tubing made to different standards. Some use virgin materials, some dont. It is also hard for the untrained eye to determine the difference between PTFE and cheaper alternative lookalike materials. Quality PTFE is not cheap.

The design construction and tolerances of the parts used to make up a hotend can also influence how the PTFE tubing behaves under high temperatures. This can mean the difference between reliability and failure when running close to max temps.

Quote
Treito
Jason I don't think that this is the right place and the right content to publish here.
If you have personally problems with him so talk with him and only with him.
Your text isn't showing a good behaviour for a sales man and now I don't want to see anything like this here in the misleaded thread.
Discussion closed.

Nothing new to us.
mutley3d is showing this behavior on several plattforms. It seems most of his words are not the true.
He has a talent of beating around the bush.

I know him already several years, and met him in a time when there was no print surface on the international market.
I supported him releasing his flexiextruder and was merciful with his financial situation in this time.
Finally he tried to copy my product but didnt success. <- this was in beginning of last year.
We actually never started spreading false informations about his products. Those were his own costumer.

Finally people will recognize good products by themself, and this is what happens right now.

---

Onlinestore: www.filafarm.com & Galerie

Disclaimer & Reminder to all readers :

Anything said on "the internet" about commercial products, especially comparison between competitors products is highly likely to be biased.

So take everything you read with caution, make you own mind by experience, etc.

I trust everyone is smart enough around here to read through the unverifiable claims about products qualities.




Note for both Filafarm and Mutley3d :

Do not start a fight in those forums please. I know it's difficult not to answer when you feel "attacked" but it will usually never help your cause.

Also spreading negative comments about your competitors and their products is giving YOU a bad reputation in the end, whatever carefully worded you make it and even when you actually think you are right.





I'm closing the thread, if there is still a need to discuss the original topic please open a new one.


Edit addendum : To be clear, it is not acceptable to "go on war" against someone else in those forums, especially - but not only - when he is a competitor.
We expect our participants to respect each other and their opinions, expressing your own opinions is fine, just don't abuse that right if you want to keep it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2016 10:27AM by DeuxVis.

---

Most of my technical comments should be correct, but is THIS one ?
Anyway, as a rule of thumb, always double check what people write.