Stabilizing Ormerod 2

Hello,

my (self-made) Ormerod 2 (and also the MK1) drives me crazy regarding the printing speed. I was able to get a more stable print with some changes, but the printer(s) especially suffers on the twisted rod problem. The maximum speed I can achieve with very less artefacts is about 70mm/s. To compare: A good Prusa I3 can achieve about 120-150mm/s.

So I am really considering to stabilize my printer(s) more. I would like to keep as much as possible, but the y-axis will be redesigned completely getting a frame using aluminium profiles (additionally 20x20). The z-axis will get a linear guide system at the front to hopefully reduce the sagging (this will need the aluminum x-arm). The will be another profile at the top so the Ormerod will look a little bit like an I3.
The bearings will be exchanged to linear guide system. The threaded rod will be probably exchanged with some sort of an ACME rod, but I try to keep the idea of the gears so no new motor will be needed.
Regarding the x-axis I have no concrete idea yet how to change it, but the x-carriage wil be compatible with the old one so you can keep your nozzle-holder.

What do you think about this? Is there any interest in such kind of improvement?

Best regards,

Sven

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

What makes you think that a Prusa i3 can print at those speeds? It sounds very unlikely to me.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

I have read several reports of improved I3 like the bq Hephestos, Wanhao Duplicator or even good stabilized normal I3 (steel-frame).

Nevertheless the twisted rod problem and the sagging of the x-arm is not fixed yet. Regarding the y-axis there are two solutions that looks interesting, but they still use the rods and I cannot imagine that this way could fix the problem. And if I change the y-axis I could also improve the other axes.

I saw printouts with 70mm/s and more (high resolution pictures). If I print with these speeds the result is nearly unusable.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

The print speed is limited more by the maximum extruder speed that the max XY speed. At .25mm layer height my extruder will start skipping if I print long runs much faster than 70mm/s. The limitation is not only in the power of the extruder motor, but in how fast heat is transferred to the filament in the nozzle. At fast extrusion speeds the filament is being pushed into the nozzle faster than it can completely melt.

Bowden-tube delay (spring effect) also causes more problems the faster you print no matter how good the XY moves are. With tight belts and reasonable acceleration values these effects are far worse than XY move errors on the standard Ormerod IME.

I am presently (slowly) designing a completely new printer that has a fixed nozzle (in XY) so I can put some heavy hardware around the hotend without affecting the moving mass (except in Z which is not an issue). I can then use a direct feed extruder and a hotend with a longer heated section. Thinking about getting two of these to make an XY table. [ooznest.co.uk] or [ooznest.co.uk] -- or design a variation thereof. Probably increase the bed size to around 300 X 300mm (which you can achieve using 500mm extrusions).

Dave

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 10:55AM by dmould.

Dave,

"only if I adjust the bed immediately before starting the print as the Ormerod is not solid enough to retain its adjustment well."

Exactly what I was saying months ago as my Ormerod 1 fell to bits. I was in a worse position as I couldn't print replacement parts & had to make an all metal chassis. I used some 1/2" dural which I've had for 40 years waiting to be used & 4" x 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle which was also waiting to be used. . Ormerod168 also has a more elegant looking solution using angle, if I were starting from scratch I'd have used the same.. The main problem, as you've found, is that there's a twisting moment around the y axis as the carriage moves across, the plastic pieces of the standard Ormerod just aren't man enough for the job, they're constantly being strained and will inevitably fail.

I also redesigned the bed to put the bearings as far apart as possible & increased the pitch of the ground rods from 85mm to 130mm. The original holes are visible in one of the pics - you can see how much more stable it is without increasing the footprint. I cut a triangular bed & the end pieces from a sheet of 250 x 250 aluminium, bought on ebay.

All this extra work means that I could throw my printer at the wall & would retain near perfect alignment. I haven't had to adjust the bed alignment since I first assembled it. The metal parts could, with a deal of revamping, be printed in plastic. I'd be quite happy to share the .dxf & stl. files.

Richard

Dave,

I have no issues with the spring-loaded Extruder. It is not skipping, but I get symptoms of an unstable frame like the ghost shadows at old analogue antenna tv.
I am also designing a new CoreXY-Printer. Due to a construction issue I had to redesign the frame and therefore I will have to redesign some parts. The main difference between us is that I want to keep the moved mass as low as possible so I will use two bowden Extruders.

Richard.

this looks nice, but the main issue I have with the redesigns I saw that they loose the optical advantage of the Ormerod compared to other printers. As I choosed the bearings for my own design I was thinking if these bearings could be a better solution for the Ormerod. So we will see.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

@Richard Do you have any improvements with your solution?

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
cua193
Dave,

"only if I adjust the bed immediately before starting the print as the Ormerod is not solid enough to retain its adjustment well."

Exactly what I was saying months ago as my Ormerod 1 fell to bits. I was in a worse position as I couldn't print replacement parts & had to make an all metal chassis. I used some 1/2" dural which I've had for 40 years waiting to be used & 4" x 2" x 2" x 1/4" angle which was also waiting to be used. . Ormerod168 also has a more elegant looking solution using angle, if I were starting from scratch I'd have used the same.. The main problem, as you've found, is that there's a twisting moment around the y axis as the carriage moves across, the plastic pieces of the standard Ormerod just aren't man enough for the job, they're constantly being strained and will inevitably fail.

I also redesigned the bed to put the bearings as far apart as possible & increased the pitch of the ground rods from 85mm to 130mm. The original holes are visible in one of the pics - you can see how much more stable it is without increasing the footprint. I cut a triangular bed & the end pieces from a sheet of 250 x 250 aluminium, bought on ebay.

All this extra work means that I could throw my printer at the wall & would retain near perfect alignment. I haven't had to adjust the bed alignment since I first assembled it. The metal parts could, with a deal of revamping, be printed in plastic. I'd be quite happy to share the .dxf & stl. files.

Richard

If there was interest, i could make these parts on the CNC ?

Have recently started doing the bed support arms for the Mk2 in conjunction with another member

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

Quote
Treito

... I am also designing a new CoreXY-Printer. ... The main difference between us is that I want to keep the moved mass as low as possible so I will use two bowden Extruders.

Does that mean that you will be using a fixed bed and moving the hotend(s) with your CoreXY mechanism?

The Bowden effect is causing the most issues in my prints, as it is impossible to get the extrusion rate correct at all places of the print, so for me a direct extruder was one of the main features I wanted to incorporate. Added to which filament cooling is needed to print good quality overhangs and bridges in ABS, but adding cooling hardware adds to the mass of the hotend - so I want something that I can add as much mass around the hotend as I like - cooling, multiple nozzles etc. So in my case I will move the bed and keep the extruders stationary (except in Z) so mass does not matter. It will also allow me to change the hotend configuration pretty easily. I could have various easily changeable gantries containing extruders, routers, PC board drills, lasers, pen holders etc. for a multi-purpose device, though in that case I'll also need to get involved in writing a multi-purpose controller firmware.

I have the outline of a design in mind, but will start by building the bed first, then the extruder mount (with Z axis), then the XY table and lastly a heated chamber. This will allow the design to evolve while building, and also means that I can pretend not to notice the cost as I'll be buying the bits in small chunks spaced over a long time period! (It will probably end up costing more than a professional ready-made printer, but that's not the point).

I've decided to make the bed from 5mm or 6mm machined aluminium plate, and use the old-fashioned method of bolting on multiple high-power resistors underneath for heating. Probably 16 10 ohm resistors in series, giving me a 360 watt mains heater (which saves the need for a high power 12V PSU but should give very fast heating). The plate will be thermally isolated from, and have three mounting points to the bed frame, one fixed height and two with spring-loaded adjustment screws to get it level. I'll cover in "PrintBite" - this is so far proving quite satisfactory for ABS printing, with good adhesion for printing without any coating, but the parts become completely loose as the plate cools below 70 deg, so I don't need to move the plate at all to remove the parts, just wipe with acetone every now & again. The bed will also be easy to remove from the bed frame so that I can later fit different beds more suited to routing, PCB drilling or laser cutting.

So while at one time I had been planning on beefing up my Ormerod as Cua193 has done, I've now decided that the change to an 8mm Z leadscrew that I finalized over the weekend is the last modification I plan for the Ormerod. It will be in use for many more months because the new build will be a leisurely and evolving affair with no doubt many empirical changes, and I can also use it to print parts for my new printer and probably keep as a standby, but my Ormerod is otherwise scheduled for retirement having served me very well over the years. It was designed as an entry-level printer suitable for building by relatively inexperienced people, and I think it has fulfilled that design objective very well. It was never meant to be mechanically rock-steady - the idea was to have the controller firmware compensate for mechanical inaccuracies rather than the builder/owner making precise adjustments.

Dave

Quote
Treito
I have no issues with the spring-loaded Extruder. It is not skipping, but I get symptoms of an unstable frame like the ghost shadows at old analogue antenna tv..

You may find that that is in fact an extruder artefact rather than XY table. Not only the print bed, but also the extruder must slow down at each corner, and this changes the pressure in the Bowden tube. The change can cause "ringing" and the plastic is extruded in pulses (like a weight on the end od a spring bobs up and down when moved). This causes periodic changes in the width of the extrusion, resulting in the ghost marks. If the marks decrease with thinner layer heights (with print speeds kept the same), it is almost certainly Bowden noise rather than XY noise, because the XY movement does not change with layer thickness while the extruder pressure does.

Dave

I will move the bed in Z direction only with my own design. The hotends will move in X/Y-direction only like the moste CoreXY designs.

Back to The OM2: At the moment both of my printers needs a repair. The MK1 needs new bearings for the y-direction (at least one is broken and the axis tends to block). The MK2 has a melted bed support (the screws transferred heat so even BS melted). This will be replaced with a wooden one.
If I have one printer back to live I will test different layer thickness to see if the ghosting is caused by the bowden extruder. Nevertheless the problem with the twisted rods is still the same.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

So yesterday I tried to remount my OM1 but the y-bracket failed. The first print with 30mm/s also failed because of warping and especially overextrusion.
The second print with 45mm/s suffers from ghosting. It doesn't matter because it's a part for the printer. I will print the bracket this evening using a layer height of only 0.1 mm instead of 0.22 mm. Do you really think that the ghosting is caused by the Bowden style Extruder? If so I would have to rethink my CoreXY printer.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Decreasing the layer height to 0.1 mm increased the ghosting dramatically. Now I am confused.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Thinking about it, variations in extrusion would possibly affect thin layers worse than thick layers (the reverse of what I had stated before). My previous thinking was that the slower extrusion speed would result in less Bowden-induced error. But on second thoughts, the percentage width error for a given volumetric error would increase with reduced layer height so it's a toss-up which effect would "win".

Whatever the case, if the amount of ghosting changes significantly either way with layer height, I cannot see that it could be caused by issues in the XY movements, which will surely have the same errors whatever the layer height. The only change in the behaviour of the printer between thin & thick layer height (all else being equal) is the extrusion speed, so I still believe it is an extrusion related issue.

Dave

On a German Facebook group I got a hint that I should reduce the accelerations. I am preparing now a new test print. At least it sounds plausible except for the increased ghosting.

The results may affect my new design. My first thought was to reduce the moved mass as much as possible, but if the Bowden style Extruder limits the printing speed that much I would have to use direct drive Extruders.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Yes, reducing the acceleration will prevent changes in speed of the extruder being so sudden, and so dampen the spring effect in the Bowden tube. The most important specification for my new design is that it must have a direct drive extruder regardless of the arrangement of the XYZ movement. The Bowden design is responsible for a heck of a lot of printing artefacts, because it guarantees that there will always be a significant delay between a change in extruder speed and the resulting change in plastic flow from the nozzle. This could be compensated for, but the compensation is unlikely to be perfect as it is so variable. A direct drive of course places far more mass at the nozzle, and so it will be best to make a design that does not need the nozzle to move in X or Y - especially if it is desired to allow for multiple extruders. I was toying with having a delta mechanism on the bed, with a fixed nozzle at the top (just because it looks so cool in operation!), but the mechanics would be difficult if slop is to be avoided, so then considered a coreXY arrangement, but have pretty much decided on a conventional XY table, probably driven with leadscrews and anti-backlash nuts rather than belts, (e.g. [ooznest.co.uk]) with a substantial gantry over the XY table being driven in Z.

Dave

But in this case you move the printed part and everybody is crying that you should not move it.
Besides that I would guess that the moved mass of the printer table is more than a setup with two Extruders as long as you use a small motor. I wanted to use 48mm depth motors for my Extruders, but if I have to use a direct drive system I really should rethink this.
The only way to be sure would be to repeat the test setup with a direct driven Extruder on one of my Ormerods.
It is hard to say which conclusion I could get with the last print.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I haven't tried it yet, but people say that the delta printer configuration with a flying extruder works well.

---

Large delta printer [miscsolutions.wordpress.com], E3D tool changer, Robotdigg SCARA printer, Crane Quad and Ormerod

Disclosure: I design Duet electronics and work on RepRapFirmware, [duet3d.com].

Just butting in,,,

I read a lot of comments about low mass at the head, not moving the printed part etc....

I have built three CNC machines and just finished converting a large mill to CNC and was wondering what sort of speed and acceleration we are talking here???

If anyones interested, I will be selling the last full build i did as it will be replaced by the bigger machine. I designed it for cutting metal, wood, plastic etc, and the Z axis carries a weight of around 4kg when running - the Z moves in all directions as its a fixed bed like a 3d printer, this was one thought as well when building it - i even tested the g-code and that worked ok

Now, i'm not trying to sell my stuff, honestly - it would be a very expensive printer as it will likely go for around £3k BUT what i am saying is - mass reduction is not needed IF the machine is built to handle it properly - you could easily mount the filament spool on the head as well and not notice it - no bowden etc.

How to do this?

You need a strong frame, linear rails and carriages, not round rods, ball-screws not belts and decent motors - Nema23 at 3-4Nm size not Nema17's and so-on.

Its not hard to do but I really feel the limit is reached and probably exceeded now on light-weight style builds like the Ormerod etc .

Just for info the little machine runs at 5000mm/min on X&Y at an acceleration of 500mm/s/s - it can do more but thats where i have it set.

Food for thought

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

But there is your problem:

I got reports that machines were running at 6000 mm/min and even more (up to 9000 mm/min, Prusa I3) that is why I decided to build a CoreXY where the main motion is done by the head. I would like to reach a speed of 7500 mm/min maximum. I also decided to use linear sliding rails.
I have no clues yet how a bowden Extruder compares to a direct driven Extruder with the same printer, but there are some clues that there is still some sort of sagging even with the aluminium X-arm. What I can tell is that the ghosting was decreased as I switched to the aluminium x-arm so that is why I am considering to exchange the sliding rods to linear sliding rails.

I don't want to do a general fault when designing and building my printer so I would be upset as I would not have any improvements compared to the Ormerod except for the building volume and the higher costs of my design.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

My plasma cutter can run 9000mm/min, its pretty scary at that speed!

The mini-mill would probably do it, never tried.

The secret is to design for the intended use, the mini-mill is built from 15 and 20mm solid slabs of aluminium, it's very heavy but its built for milling, there are no opposing forces in 3d printing, pretty much like the plasma cutter - the head on that is much lighter and therefore easier to move faster.

If going linear rails like HiWin etc, look into going with zero backlash ball-screws as well but this is where the money starts building up, also bigger drives and motors, then throw in a full ethernet motion controller with good acceleration curves etc.........

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

I will use how you call ACME rods. The company where I can get the linear sliding rails also offers a special nut made of plastic with zero backslash.The cost for one nut is about 22€ so that is not very much.

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

You could aslo try ballscrews ,they suposedly have no backlash. i was looking at buying this [www.ebay.com]

for my CNC Mill.

ACME screw is not bad but there is a lot more friction involved - might limit your accelerations etc

---

Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

I was considering this one:
[www.igus.eu]

And these ones:
[www.igus.eu]

---

Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

I have a feeling that friction will kill your design I'm afraid - personally i would not go that way. There are no rotating elements in either of those parts - just relies on slip of the nylon used.

Stuff like this will last a lifetime...

HiWin Rails

Ball Screws

Clearly the cost will higher and be an issue probably but the results would be measurable i think, the two links are just examples of course but HiWin is regarded highly.


A step down from HiWin is round supported rods...

Round supported rods

Cheaper and will probably be ok in this use - not good for high stress like milling machines.

Loads of ideas.....

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Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

The linear sliding rail is partly used by the bq hephestos 2 and this seems to be a very good printer.

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Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Fair enough then, it may be better than i think.

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Another RS Ormerod Mk1 meets the world

Retired now but I used to make....
CNC Machined Mk1 aluminium bed support plates for the Ormerod
CNC machined X-plates and ribs for Mk1 & Mk2 Ormerods
CNC machined bed support arms for the Mk2 Ormerod.
Dual Hot-End heatsink blocks.

I will try both styles of sliding waggons. The rails themselves are the expensive parts but at least cheaper than other type of rails and to me they look more stable.

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Slicer: Simplify3D 4.0; sometimes CraftWare 1.14 or Cura 2.7
Delta with Duet-WiFi, FW: 1.20.1RC2; mini-sensor board by dc42 for auto-leveling
Ormerod common modifications: Mini-sensor board by dc42, aluminum X-arm, 0.4 mm nozzle E3D like, 2nd fan, Z stepper nut M5 x 15, Herringbone gears, Z-axis bearing at top, spring loaded extruder with pneumatic fitting, Y belt axis tensioner
Ormerod 2: FW: 1.19-dc42 on Duet-WiFi. own build, modifications: GT2-belts, silicone heat-bed, different motors and so on. Printed parts: bed support, (PSU holder) and Y-feet.
Ormerod 1: FW: 1.15c-dc42 on 1k Duet-Board. Modifications: Aluminium bed-support, (nearly) all parts reprinted in PLA/ ABS, and so on.

Quote
Davek0974
I have a feeling that friction will kill your design I'm afraid - personally i would not go that way. There are no rotating elements in either of those parts - just relies on slip of the nylon used.

Stuff like this will last a lifetime...

HiWin Rails

Ball Screws

Clearly the cost will higher and be an issue probably but the results would be measurable i think, the two links are just examples of course but HiWin is regarded highly.


A step down from HiWin is round supported rods...

Round supported rods

Cheaper and will probably be ok in this use - not good for high stress like milling machines.

Loads of ideas.....

Unrelated question to Dave:

Do you know will these type of rails(and ballscrew) be sensitive to water? Wana know in case i will use flood cooling on my milling machine.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2016 05:04PM by Darathy.