How fast can your smartrap print?

I'm just curious how fast can your smartrap print? I know this will vary a lot based on a number of factors but I just want to compare if my print speed is normal.

I got my stepper motors from robotdig and it measures about 39 mm in height excluding the shaft. It seems short compared to what I see in your builds. I print at 20mm/s external perimeter and 30mm/s infill. What I notice is that the perimeters are nice but the infill is beading and not a line.

So it looks like I'm limited to 20mm/s. :-(
I'm so envious when I see printers that can print up to 100mm/s. I couldn't believe it was even possible. I thought the video was sped up a few times.

I have a j-head because I couldn't buy the smartrap original hotend anywhere. I'm also waiting for my heater cartridge to arrive so that I can replace the resistor. Hopefully, I can get it to print faster with the new heater.

How fast can yours print?

I think I was at 30mm/s perimeter and 27mm/s infill the last time I had her going. I'm kinda waiting on regpye's geared extruder before I work on it anymore.

I run mine 30mm/sec on everything, with 50 mm/sec rapids, I have gone as fast as 45, but 30 is fast enough. If your not getting the stepper kicking back on you and it's not pushing out enough filament, take a look at your settings in your slicer, make sure you have the correct filament/nozzle size entered. Also your Esteps in Marlin could be off.

Mark

I\was asked this about a week ago, so I did a normal print at a speed set at 80mm/sec and it printed as expected, good.
I turned up the flow rate on the LCD controller and did a few tests to see just how far I could push it.
I ended up running at 275% which equates to 220mm/sec with still very good finish. At those speeds a fan needs to be added to cool the print down or there are some problems with bending on small cross sections.
Keep in mind that this is not an ordinary SmartRap, it has a geared extruder that has a 4Kg pull and it uses a Reg's hotend that can handle the flow. The hotend is fitted with a 40 watt heater cartridge and is designed primarily for PLA.
I use 40mm long steppers for all my builds, no need for anything bigger, I even use them on my heavy duty i3 machines and they are carrying a heavy load, especially on the Z axis that has the X carriage, two 80mm fans, LEDs and the power is divided across two motors.

When I get time I will make a video of this test and add it to my website.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2014 12:00AM by regpye.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Thanks guys!

If I can get mine to print even at 30mm/s reliably, I will be very happy.

Unfortunately, I'm still getting that kickback on my extruder motor. Worse, I don't see a pattern on when it occurs. Sometimes during infill, and sometimes on perimeters. At times, it happens a few times in a row with only seconds in between and sometimes, just once every few minutes. I dialed down my flow rate to 85% and I get significantly less kickback but it still happens. I don't want to go less because I sometimes see gaps in my prints already. Filament is also from robotdig and needs 225-230 degrees. Diameter of filament ranges from 1.6 to 1.65mm so I have 1.6mm set in slicer. I will try other suppliers when I run out of PLA.

Another thing I tried was to step up my stepper driver a bit. About a quarter turn clockwise compared to the XYZ setting. I don't want to go any further because my extruder motor gets very hot to the touch after around 30 mins.

I should try your geared extruder, regpye. I think that will solve my extruder motor problem. In fact, I already tried to buy the bolt but just like during my build, I'm having a hard time finding a store that sells bolts in metric system. There's a depot nearby that opened recently (claiming to be a builders one stop shop) but they only have 25mm length bolts

At least I know that 20mm/s is not too slow. I won't be scratching my head anymore trying to troubleshoot. That's probably all my motor could give on a direct drive configuration.

By the way, what size of tap is best for the hobbed bolt? 8mm? 5mm? 4mm?

Quote
MelT
Thanks guys!

If I can get mine to print even at 30mm/s reliably, I will be very happy.

Unfortunately, I'm still getting that kickback on my extruder motor. Worse, I don't see a pattern on when it occurs. Sometimes during infill, and sometimes on perimeters. At times, it happens a few times in a row with only seconds in between and sometimes, just once every few minutes. I dialed down my flow rate to 85% and I get significantly less kickback but it still happens. I don't want to go less because I sometimes see gaps in my prints already. Filament is also from robotdig and needs 225-230 degrees. Diameter of filament ranges from 1.6 to 1.65mm so I have 1.6mm set in slicer. I will try other suppliers when I run out of PLA.

Another thing I tried was to step up my stepper driver a bit. About a quarter turn clockwise compared to the XYZ setting. I don't want to go any further because my extruder motor gets very hot to the touch after around 30 mins.

I should try your geared extruder, regpye. I think that will solve my extruder motor problem. In fact, I already tried to buy the bolt but just like during my build, I'm having a hard time finding a store that sells bolts in metric system. There's a depot nearby that opened recently (claiming to be a builders one stop shop) but they only have 25mm length bolts

At least I know that 20mm/s is not too slow. I won't be scratching my head anymore trying to troubleshoot. That's probably all my motor could give on a direct drive configuration.

By the way, what size of tap is best for the hobbed bolt? 8mm? 5mm? 4mm?

I use the biggest tap that can fit into my jig, the actual size I am using is M12 x 1.5, but an imperial size could be used too, not really very important, just make sure you use a big one so you get big flatter teeth
The bolt could be replaced with a 5/16" maybe, just check the bearing size so there is not too much slot or too tight, the extruder body doesn't matter that much because the bearings are what takes the load and bolt..
You can find the STL files for the extruder somewhere in the SmartRap forum, I can't locate it at this time, could look later.
If you use Cura to do your slicing, the default speed is 80mm/sec.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Thanks regpye! M12 seems a bit much but I'll take your word for it after seeing pictures of your more than 30 printers! I wish I could make another printer someday.

I found your stl from smartrap github. I will try making hobbed bolt with a hand drill when I get a chance to go out again.

Off topic - I've just received my invitation to apply for Australian visa. Hope everything goes smoothly. Who knows? I might drop by your showroom if it's open to public hehehe.

from my production smartraps with integrated direct extruder and mk7 ( same as our kits ) this is actually the speed i use :

perimeters : 35
small perimeters : 30
external perimeters : 80%
infill : 45
solid infill : 45
top solid infill : 45
support : 60 (not used)
gap fill : 20

travel : 90

first layer : 40%

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Thanks for sharing Serge.
I wish I can get mine to print as fast as that. If only parts can be picked up anywhere like groceries.

Hello

For the max speed, i made a video after mounting racks : speed test 60 mm/sec
My "max" settings (fast but no good results):


My "optimal" settings (the one i use everytime):


I use a geared extruder, it really help. My hobbed bolt is a M5 screw with the MK7 from the original extruder, I made a mod for that


Gaston

Oh, thanks a lot for sharing that picture and the files gaston! Now I don't have to buy a tap to make a geared extruder and just use my current MK8 drive gear!

And I don't have to worry about not being able to find M8 bolts. 1/4 inch bolts should be easy to find here and I can just make minor adjustments to your files. So excited to say goodbye to extruder kickback and under-extrusion.

glade to help

I hope you guys can come back here and share your nozzle diameter. I believe that affects the maximum print speed which were not shared above. I'm asking becaue after trying the geared extruder, I'm still getting kickbacks.

I printed Regpye's geared extruder from smartrap's github. After 4 hours of printing, I noticed it was pointing the other way . Not a problem since I plan to mount it externally anyway using my spare stepper motor. I couldn't find a tap that is being sold individually so I just used the MK8 hobbed drive.

I thought it was the end of my extruder kickback problem but, lo and behold, it still happens. Normally during the first layer. Thinking that my nozzle is too close to the glass on my first layer, I adjusted the offset by 0.2mm and no more kickback so far but only on first layers. I still get it from time to time.

While it didn't cure the kickback, I must say that a geared extruder makes a difference in speed and consistency. I probably have a really bad filament to fix other print issues but I was able to go 40mm/s! Whohoo!
I might slow it down again when I need the absolute print quality but for printer parts and replacement parts, I don't really need top notch quality so I want to push the speed a little.

So why do I still get that kickback? The last thing I did was go extreme and adjusted my flow rate to 70%! It's going well so far without kickback at this setting but I'm wondering why my flow rate is way off that I had to turn it down that much.

My j-head was 0.3mm but I found a 0.5mm drill at an electronics store and used it to drill the nozzle. When I measured it with my cheap caliper, it turs out to be only 0.35mm diameter which I put as my nozzle diameter on slicer. I was hoping to make it at least 0.4mm to make prints a bit faster but even with 0.35mm nozzle, is it realistic to be able to print at 50mm/s?

Quote
MelT
I hope you guys can come back here and share your nozzle diameter. I believe that affects the maximum print speed which were not shared above. I'm asking becaue after trying the geared extruder, I'm still getting kickbacks.

I printed Regpye's geared extruder from smartrap's github. After 4 hours of printing, I noticed it was pointing the other way . Not a problem since I plan to mount it externally anyway using my spare stepper motor. I couldn't find a tap that is being sold individually so I just used the MK8 hobbed drive.

I thought it was the end of my extruder kickback problem but, lo and behold, it still happens. Normally during the first layer. Thinking that my nozzle is too close to the glass on my first layer, I adjusted the offset by 0.2mm and no more kickback so far but only on first layers. I still get it from time to time.

While it didn't cure the kickback, I must say that a geared extruder makes a difference in speed and consistency. I probably have a really bad filament to fix other print issues but I was able to go 40mm/s! Whohoo!
I might slow it down again when I need the absolute print quality but for printer parts and replacement parts, I don't really need top notch quality so I want to push the speed a little.

So why do I still get that kickback? The last thing I did was go extreme and adjusted my flow rate to 70%! It's going well so far without kickback at this setting but I'm wondering why my flow rate is way off that I had to turn it down that much.

My j-head was 0.3mm but I found a 0.5mm drill at an electronics store and used it to drill the nozzle. When I measured it with my cheap caliper, it turs out to be only 0.35mm diameter which I put as my nozzle diameter on slicer. I was hoping to make it at least 0.4mm to make prints a bit faster but even with 0.35mm nozzle, is it realistic to be able to print at 50mm/s?

I am using 0.4mm for most of my machines. For faster prints I use 0.5mm
I will make a video after the weekend to show you how it prints faster. I don't have time until the weekend to do it,very busy at present.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 11:03AM by regpye.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Well, last night I had my printer going 100 mm/sec with Reg's geared extruder at 210c with very good finish and not missing any steps. This produced the best looking print from it to date. Very shiny and solid. This also got rid of all the stringing while moving to positions. The z rods do shake a little at this speed, and I had my retraction set to 0 afraid that I would strip the filament. I'll post a picture of the finished product tonight.

Quote
duranza
Well, last night I had my printer going 100 mm/sec with Reg's geared extruder at 210c with very good finish and not missing any steps. This produced the best looking print from it to date. Very shiny and solid. This also got rid of all the stringing while moving to positions. The z rods do shake a little at this speed, and I had my retraction set to 0 afraid that I would strip the filament. I'll post a picture of the finished product tonight.

Wow! Congrats on that speed! Is that the same filament you used to print at 230C?

I find it necessary to use retraction in some prints though. Don't you get stringing even when you don't use retraction?

I want to see video of that Duranza.

I'm going to video right now.

SMH, And I was thrilled I got up to 30mm/s with a geared extruder and my .4mm nozzle. To scared to try any faster till I get off this fishing line. Maybe after I get the wide Y plate done I'll try something small at 40 100mm/s has got to be just blazing through, very impressive.

I've been sticking to Perimeters: 30mm/s, Infills: 40mm/s.

I'm still on fishing line

Here is a little video making glass holders



finished print

Video

Cool! So, Is that the same filament you used to print at 230C?

By the way, is that the Z endstop I hear clicking as it prints?

Pretty good prints duranza
.
I have all of mine printing at least 80mm/sec because that is what Cura has been set at and I use the same slicing files for all my different printers, they all can handle that speed easily.
They are all using a geared extruder and the same type of hotend.

I did a test a while back to see what limits could be pushed with the SmartRap and I turned up the flow rate with the LCD controller by 275% which equates to 220mm/sec without too much loss.
At that speed it didn't like small cross sections because it didn't have enough time to cool down without a fan blowing on the printed part, add a fan and no problems.
With a Bowden setup I always use retract, it can be fast with a geared extruder and if the hobbed bolt has big teeth, no problem of stripping the filament.

Yesterday I managed to get my printer back from the electronics store that I lent it to, so now I can repeat that test and do a video of it in action. I will try and do that tomorrow.

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

It is the same filament as before. But without the geared extruder I had to up the temperature to be able to extrude without kicking back. The clicking you hear is the fishing line rubbing against itself around the stepper motor adapter bobbin. I'm using a rubber band around the arm and plate to keep the arm down and off the limit switch because it was tripping before.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2014 08:59PM by duranza.

Here is the promised video doing a speed test on one of my SmartRaps.
I sliced with Cura and set the print speed for slicing at 80mm/sec.
During the print I turned up the speed as much as 275% and still got pretty good results.

Video can be seen here

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[regpye.com.au]
"Experience is the mother of all knowledge." --Leonardo da Vinci

Very nice. I'm very impressed by this printer design and how well it holds up.

I have been inspired by this thread, still have some tweaking to do but I had it up to 80mm/s yesterday, ended up skipping a few steps, but its been reliable at 60mm/s so far. Just makes me want to get my belt drive finished that much faster, I am almost 100% positive it wasn't exactly missed steps but slipping fishing line and/or backlash.

Hmm. I switch over to all rack-and-pinion last night (and a 0.4.9 update!) and decided to do some speed tests using the speed multiplier of Repetier (base settings Perimeters: 30mm/s, Infills: 40mm/s). Speed was not the problem. The printer could easily go 150% to 200% faster than the base settings. After some sleuthing, I determined that cooling was the main problem with increased speed!

Both of these were printed at 150% speed at the indicated temperatures. The both did quite well on the bottom layers, but as it gets to the top of the pyramid, there was just not enough time for a layer to cool before the next layer goes on. Results: slurring of the smaller layers.

I always have a fan running on my J-head to cool down the barrel. It is usually not a problem since I have mostly been printing multi-part plates with large layers. But small objects are obviously a problem. Time to think about adding more fans to cool the print as well. Any pointers to a good ducted fan design that might work well with my servoless J-head mount?



My servoless hotend

Or you can do what MeIT has done and re-direct some airflow to the print