Yes, 3D printers can go on fire.
Posted by Antslake
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. January 29, 2014 07:32PM |
tjb1,
I'm not trying to make a one size fits all solution. The solution I proposed is for ABS printing with a J-Head. I never pretended that the thermal fuse was a solution to EVERY possible combination of printer design. That would be just silly.
Lastly, I'm not trying to prevent a fan from dying, nor am I trying to prevent damage to my printer. I'm trying to prevent my house from burning down. You can bet that a properly sized thermal fuse, if used within it's capabilities, will be better than not using one. In my situation, I have measured temperatures on my hotend that allow meto KNOW FOR CERTAIN that I can use a specific type of thermal fuse which will only allow the hotend to possibly melt down and then the fuse opens shutting down the printer entirely. I can't help you with your 500C E3D. You'll have to continue to poo-poo other's ideas on how to prevent their houses from burning down while the rest of us look for a solution.
Have a good one!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2014 07:34PM by umdpru.
I'm not trying to make a one size fits all solution. The solution I proposed is for ABS printing with a J-Head. I never pretended that the thermal fuse was a solution to EVERY possible combination of printer design. That would be just silly.
Lastly, I'm not trying to prevent a fan from dying, nor am I trying to prevent damage to my printer. I'm trying to prevent my house from burning down. You can bet that a properly sized thermal fuse, if used within it's capabilities, will be better than not using one. In my situation, I have measured temperatures on my hotend that allow meto KNOW FOR CERTAIN that I can use a specific type of thermal fuse which will only allow the hotend to possibly melt down and then the fuse opens shutting down the printer entirely. I can't help you with your 500C E3D. You'll have to continue to poo-poo other's ideas on how to prevent their houses from burning down while the rest of us look for a solution.
Have a good one!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2014 07:34PM by umdpru.
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. January 30, 2014 03:36PM |
Thanks KingRahl. I couldn't have put it better myself. 
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. January 30, 2014 08:12PM |
I just realized, most of my machines have a switch function on the power supplies(Xbox, PC, etc.). I can run the thermal fuse to the switch wiring, and shut off the power supplies themselves. Obviously.
No more power supplies that have switches on the mains side for me.
Yvan
Singularity Machine
No more power supplies that have switches on the mains side for me.
Yvan
Singularity Machine
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. January 31, 2014 07:59AM |
Quote
umdpru
tjb1,
I'm not trying to make a one size fits all solution. The solution I proposed is for ABS printing with a J-Head. I never pretended that the thermal fuse was a solution to EVERY possible combination of printer design. That would be just silly.
Lastly, I'm not trying to prevent a fan from dying, nor am I trying to prevent damage to my printer. I'm trying to prevent my house from burning down. You can bet that a properly sized thermal fuse, if used within it's capabilities, will be better than not using one. In my situation, I have measured temperatures on my hotend that allow meto KNOW FOR CERTAIN that I can use a specific type of thermal fuse which will only allow the hotend to possibly melt down and then the fuse opens shutting down the printer entirely. I can't help you with your 500C E3D. You'll have to continue to poo-poo other's ideas on how to prevent their houses from burning down while the rest of us look for a solution.
Have a good one!
Poo-poo your idea? Go ahead and try it. You are going to have a lot more trouble than you think trying to keep the fuse at its thermal use temp and then tripping it reliably, but go ahead and burn your house down with false security.
Have you ever seen a j-head fail at high temp? The heater assembly sometimes falls out of the top end so how will your fuse work then when its not near the heater and the heater is still running wild? Your idea is poo-poo , difficult to implement at the correct location and gives false security. The only way I can see it being reliable is you take the 230 running/280 trip fuse and place it in another hole near the cartridge/resistor and keep your temps below 230 or try your luck and run it up to whatever below 280. You have too many variables placing the fuse away from the heater and if you want to then bet your house on that and sleep at night, more power to you.
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. January 31, 2014 11:59AM |
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dave3d
Having the printer inside an enclosure fitted with a smoke alarm that triggers an automatic CO2 extinguisher system would be ideal.
However I cannot find an electrically operated CO2 system that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Systems used for race cars and boats are also usually powder.
My favorite is to have the printer enclosed in a sealed compartment, with an oxygen free atmosphere.
All it would take is a big nitrogen tank from the local welding supply...Do the CO2 systems operate on a one use principal? In other words, if triggered(even from a false alarm) do you have to send it in to the shop to have it re-filled? I had a kid flick the trigger on one of our powder extinguishers here, and it leaked down to nothing after that. Took ages for me to get it refilled.
If the printer is in an enclosure, what about a shot of nitrogen? It would not be as effective as CO2, but that would not matter in an enclosure. Below 15% oxygen, combustion stops I think. Way cheaper to just have a motor or solenoid open and close a nitrogen tank valve than have to deal with a certified fire extinquisher.
Yvan
Singularity Machine
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. February 01, 2014 05:40AM |
There is also the possibility that belts could instigate a fire.
Static Conductivity: Rubber or urethane belts can generate an electrical charge.
Static can ignite combustible dust, vapors, solvents, and other materials causing fire and or/explosion.
It can also cause unprotected electronic instrumentation to perform erratically.
\
All copper anti-static tinsel (Garland) is used to eliminate static electricity.
Functions as long as it is grounded, (below 150 feet per minute).
Tinsel has a minimum static threshold normally considered about 2000 volts.
Below this threshold tinsel typically becomes ineffective.
However, most static problems related to static charges do not show up at the threshold level.
Carbon filled Nylon filament brushes is another option.
Garland
[en.wikipedia.org]
TAKK
[www.statictinsel.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2014 05:41AM by A2.
Static Conductivity: Rubber or urethane belts can generate an electrical charge.
Static can ignite combustible dust, vapors, solvents, and other materials causing fire and or/explosion.
It can also cause unprotected electronic instrumentation to perform erratically.
All copper anti-static tinsel (Garland) is used to eliminate static electricity.
Functions as long as it is grounded, (below 150 feet per minute).
Tinsel has a minimum static threshold normally considered about 2000 volts.
Below this threshold tinsel typically becomes ineffective.
However, most static problems related to static charges do not show up at the threshold level.
Carbon filled Nylon filament brushes is another option.
Garland
[en.wikipedia.org]
TAKK
[www.statictinsel.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2014 05:41AM by A2.
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Re: Yes, 3D printers can go on fire. October 18, 2014 05:26PM |
Just had a idea, will try it soon and see how it works out.
What if you just wrap solder wire (without flux core) with the appropriate melting temperature with one or 2 turns around your extruder head. Insulating the wires from the extruder with Kapton before of course. Trough that solder wire you power your heating element. If now the extruder overheats the solder wire will melt and reliably cut the power to the heater.
I don't think that all the sophisticated electronic approaches are robust enough to act as a real safety device. A safety device should be as simple as possible, so that there is no way that the safety device could fail itself too.
Just a thought
What if you just wrap solder wire (without flux core) with the appropriate melting temperature with one or 2 turns around your extruder head. Insulating the wires from the extruder with Kapton before of course. Trough that solder wire you power your heating element. If now the extruder overheats the solder wire will melt and reliably cut the power to the heater.
I don't think that all the sophisticated electronic approaches are robust enough to act as a real safety device. A safety device should be as simple as possible, so that there is no way that the safety device could fail itself too.
Just a thought
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